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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:12:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Millions of people have no problems with guns from all the brands you mentioned... lol
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:15:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I'm not that picky I just want something that isn't hindered by sloppy execution or poor management (looking at you smith and Wesson). Uh huh. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:16:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Beretta 92 - your welcome
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Millions of people have no problems with guns from all the brands you mentioned... lol Well I had lemons from all of them. What's funny? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:21:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh huh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not that picky I just want something that isn't hindered by sloppy execution or poor management (looking at you smith and Wesson). Uh huh. Are you suggesting that wanting a gun to function properly is being picky? I understand the mentality of "ruger will take care of you" but when it's every freakin gun I buy it gets old. Brass to face/fte with glock, smith revolver locking up, shield failing to eject once or twice per magazine, ruger sp101 not ejecting shells. I'm missing the joke. I lose time and money with each gun. I can chalk it up to cutting corners in QC and downgrading processes. Let's not act like companies aren't cutting corners. Well established fact that many used/older generation guns are more reliable and more highly regarded than their nww counterparts. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:25:28 PM EDT
[#6]
What are your problems and what are you trying to accomplish. Your previous buys are all over the place like you are in search of something specific.
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:32:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are your problems and what are you trying to accomplish. Your previous buys are all over the place like you are in search of something specific. Looking for a compact carry piece. Started with 9's, went to revolvers because of the issues I was having with the Glocks and shield. Had problems with my 442 (no lock) just locking up randomly first time at the range and got an sp101 which wouldn't eject 357 shells after firing. I sent it back, they swapped the cylinder and when I got it back from ruger, two cylinders wouldn't lock up properly in dry fire. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:48:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I'm interested in is the 938 and i'v never had luck with small semi's. I've been lucky with guns I guess. I never had any issues with guns until I got my first sig, the p938. I fell in love it until the extractor broke inexplicably after a few hundred rounds. Cost 50 bucks to ship it there and back and once I get it back the magazine falls out after every round. I fixed the magazine release then sold it after utterly losing faith in it. Was also not impressed at all by sigs customer service. I didn't come here to slander a well respected company but just tell my experience for what it's worth. I prefer s&w and ruger, from what I have seen they take better care of you. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:01:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been lucky with guns I guess. I never had any issues with guns until I got my first sig, the p938. I fell in love it until the extractor broke inexplicably after a few hundred rounds. Cost 50 bucks to ship it there and back and once I get it back the magazine falls out after every round. I fixed the magazine release then sold it after utterly losing faith in it. Was also not impressed at all by sigs customer service. I didn't come here to slander a well respected company but just tell my experience for what it's worth. I prefer s&w and ruger, from what I have seen they take better care of you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm interested in is the 938 and i'v never had luck with small semi's. I've been lucky with guns I guess. I never had any issues with guns until I got my first sig, the p938. I fell in love it until the extractor broke inexplicably after a few hundred rounds. Cost 50 bucks to ship it there and back and once I get it back the magazine falls out after every round. I fixed the magazine release then sold it after utterly losing faith in it. Was also not impressed at all by sigs customer service. I didn't come here to slander a well respected company but just tell my experience for what it's worth. I prefer s&w and ruger, from what I have seen they take better care of you. I can definitely say ruger takes care of the issues but after a certain amount of problems in a specific gun you lose faith in it, as you said. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:44:21 AM EDT
[#10]
<----------------------
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:46:38 AM EDT
[#11]
What you want is a time machine.
We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:52:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What you want is a time machine. We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. Sad |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:53:36 AM EDT
[#13]
That's bad luck - I have some knocks on glocks, they aren't perfection, yada yada - but having a G26 AND G19 not work out for you?
Almost hard to believe? Even for a hater like me 
I do have a high dollar custom 1911, I can tell you it's never given me trouble
On the cheap: if you have someone you know and trust - a friend, looking to say, offload one of their 5 functioning G19s to get something different, try to pick up a gun like that List of some other good pistols that generally have a good rep for working out of the box, aside from mentioned above, include (but is not limited to) HK VP9 Sig SP2022 (not very expensive considering what you're getting) HK P2000 LEM Berettas of most flavors (Big pistols, chunky, safety in a wacky position - but they tend to feed pretty damn reliably) Leaving out: Sig P320 supposedly has triggerslap for some users M&P9 has/had* accuracy issue for some users Production 1911s (many work, some make headaches) |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:06:15 AM EDT
[#14]
I don't understand how some people can have such bad experiences. I buy and sell guns like I change socks. I have NEVER had to send one back. The only gun to ever give me so many problems I dumped it was a GLOCK 42 and I'd still say GLOCK is king.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:09:35 AM EDT
[#15]
I owned a firearm from every company the OP mentioned and not one had given me problems over the years. I've done some minor and major gunsmith work on all the guns because I like to tweak them to my liking and still no problems. Good luck.
BTW, you get what you pay for so I would look into a high dollar firearm with quality customer service if you are looking for the best bang for your money. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 7:39:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What you want is a time machine. We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. Cars and guns aren't necessarily the same but.. Porsche included that shit in the 60's because you needed it. To say most products of today aren't objectively better is simply denial. Back in the 60's. 300k miles on a vehicle before any major maintenance was a pipe dream. Now it's commonplace. I think Op is just unlucky. Most modern weapons are reliable right out of the box. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 7:59:23 AM EDT
[#17]
I have had good luck with Springfield. My Colt .380gubment has never malfunctioned but it's 30 years old.
Every CZ I've owned has worked. My.Dan Wesson was not right but promptly fixed and now its pure awesome. Now Motorola radios? Welcome to unreliability! |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:39:25 AM EDT
[#18]
You should probably stick to long guns or take up another hobby. I've never heard of anyone having that much trouble with such a variety of manufacturers. I have guns that draw Arfcom's hate and disdain (KT, Sigma) that work just fine. Heck, my old Spanish Stars and Astras work fine.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:40:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I have had quality control nightmares with smith and wesson, glock, and ruger and I'm sick of my guns being tied up in repairs that should have never made it out of the factory. I'm tempted to try sig but the only model I'm interested in is the 938 and i'v never had luck with small semi's. Hard to believe I've now had 2 revolvers need trips back to the factory within the first 40 rounds(the ruger had to go back twice and the smith once). I just want something reliable and long lasting. What should I try next? So far tried gen 4 Glock 19 and 26. Ruger sp101, smith and wesson 442 and shield. I'm not that picky I just want something that isn't hindered by sloppy execution or poor management (looking at you smith and Wesson). Eta: I know about Wilson combats epic QC checklist. I'm not looking for a 3k dollar 1911. Is this the price im looking at to get something headache free? I have gone through a ton of guns and had more than my share of issues, my issues with auto pistols stopped when I moved away from the American owned companies. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:38:48 AM EDT
[#20]
I dunno! Been shooting all my life and haven't had serious problems with any of them. Bought a Kahr CM9 for CCW 3 years ago and it's been 100% right out of the box. Other folks have had other results. So you have to decide for yourself.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:20:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Millions of people have no problems with guns from all the brands you mentioned... lol This! OP you've been extremely unlucky. Although I can sympathize with you. I had a G27 that would stove pipe, nosedive, and lock the slide back with rounds still in the magazine. I drove over to Glock who fixed it; ran a 150 trouble free rounds thru it afterwards and sold it disclosing everything to the new owner. My (2) M&P .40's, a mid size and a compact as well as my Springer 1911 have been right as rain and have never once failed due to a problem with the gun itself. Try one of those. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:29:10 PM EDT
[#22]
If all those modern guns are mentioned you have not been at this very long , and you would have to define what your problems were to really know if you were not picking anal or really had a problem that was a true concern.
You have had far more than your share of problems if they were significant issues I have been around pistols over 30 years now, and have probably owned a couple hundred. Never had that many issues . Try buying used and see what happens! ( no not a joke- I have never had much issue at all buying used.) As far as mod versus old, both have pluses and minuses but I would not universally say older is better |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:57:16 PM EDT
[#23]
H&K P2000 or H&K P2000SK. With the intro of the VP series and P30SK the prices on the older P2000 are coming down. Bitch about the triggers if you want but they tend to go bang every time. -J
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:37:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If all those modern guns are mentioned you have not been at this very long , and you would have to define what your problems were to really know if you were not picking anal or really had a problem that was a true concern. You have had far more than your share of problems if they were significant issues I have been around pistols over 30 years now, and have probably owned a couple hundred. Never had that many issues . Try buying used and see what happens! ( no not a joke- I have never had much issue at all buying used.) As far as mod versus old, both have pluses and minuses but I would not universally say older is better I have been shooting handguns for about 5 years. Rifles before that. I shoot with a very experienced and competent shooter and he always has the same issues with my guns when he shoots them and the issues are always acknowledged at the factory. It's just coincidental that I keep getting the lemons I suppose. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:46:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Pickup a FS series Beretta, Sig or H&K let someone else dick around with Customer Service bull shit.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:52:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
...I'm interested in is the 938 and i'v never had luck with small semi's. .. What's wrong with a P320 (mine has been 100% so far) or a 3rd gen Smith auto like a 4506 (my 1076 and 5906 have been 100% so far) or a good 1911 (my Sig 1911s have been 100% so far)? |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:00:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
H&K P2000 or H&K P2000SK. With the intro of the VP series and P30SK the prices on the older P2000 are coming down. Bitch about the triggers if you want but they tend to go bang every time. -J I'm no HK fan, but I was going to say "buy an HK." They may not have the greatest trigger, they may have a weird mag release, they may not feel like they're worth the premium price (to me), but they will work. I am a SIG fan and I wouldn't try your luck with a P938. Maybe a 9mm P224? Even the P224 is kinda newish though. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 5:25:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been shooting handguns for about 5 years. Rifles before that. I shoot with a very experienced and competent shooter and he always has the same issues with my guns when he shoots them and the issues are always acknowledged at the factory. It's just coincidental that I keep getting the lemons I suppose. Best not take up skydiving then OP All kidding aside, I'd just chock it up to the assembly line process and speed of production not meeting all the QC cutoffs. However some problems that will pass an initial factory QC check will only show up after the gun is in the hands of the consumer and they put some rounds through it. Once it's fixed shoot the piss out of it again and re-test it to make sure it meets muster. If it does then awesome, if not it goes back to the manufacture again. Eventually you hit a point where you're just done with it. Sometimes manufactures will "buy you out" so to speak by cutting you a check for what you paid. Others will tell you "We fixed it, it's 100%." no matter what. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 5:51:35 PM EDT
[#29]
I have never had a problem with any of my Glocks, SIGs, Smiths, or FNs, but I don't doubt that people do have some QC issues with any of these companies. I don't own a single HK, but if I by golly wanted to reduce my chances of having a lemon, I would say get a HK. If there was such a thing as a VP9sk (I am sure this will be made in the not so distant future) when I got into guns, I might be a HK guy.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:05:29 PM EDT
[#30]
I have a friend with bad luck, but he seems to always find the cheapest ammo that nobody has ever heard of before. I hate to say it, but cheap ammo is the cause of a lot of issues.....not all, but a lot. I've migrated all of my Glocks to Gen4 except for the Glock 30S as they are Gen3 only. I'm also building up my HK collection and currently have a VP9 and an HK45C LEM. The only exception in my collection has be the addition of an M&P 9C. Everything I have now is and always has run 100% even with 9mm conversion barrels in the 40 S&W guns.
I've had a few issues over the years here and there, but nothing like some of the stories I read on the internet. Most of what I read I really just can't give much credence to any more. When Glock had their Gen4 issues a few years ago, there were so many people saying bad things that had never shot one or even owned one. It was almost as if they were happy Glock had an issue to point a finger at. When Glock announced a fix, I called the 800 number and a few days later a new spring arrived.....it really couldn't have been easier. I've even found HK customer support to be very easy and helpful unlike what the internet has to say. I spoke to a guy at a gun shop one day who told me before he got on the internet he never knew Kimber had any issues. Could your issues all be just bad luck.....yup, and they probably are. I hate to say it, but for the most part I just really don't believe much of what I read any more. I need to see it in person and I need to see the circumstances. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:14:06 PM EDT
[#31]
I've had a few guns be pretty frustrating too. So I understand. It is kind of strange that you've had problems with ALL of those guns. But sometimes circumstances seem to just be there for the sole purpose of being frustrating. It's a crazy world.
But yeah, you might want see if there is something you're doing wrong. The only thing that would come to mind is like someone said, buying crappy ammo and possibly limpwristing with the autos. But I'm by no means saying that Glock Gen IV's didn't have their share of problems. It is a well known thing. I wonder if the shield just needed breaking in. I've never had one. For me it was trying to find the right carry gun. Because the few ones I had that fit the bill seemed to have problems. My Colt DS has timing issues and my Browning HiPower fails the click test. And I tried a lot of ways to remedy that, but couldn't do it so far. I've also had some guns run super well though. My Beretta M9 is reliable as heck. And actually so was my Springfield Milspec. And also my Kimber Custom II ran. I had a Gen III G19 that never hiccuped. I think you need a Compact 92. Of course there are ton of other guns that would fit the bill. My guess is if you keep going, you'll get one that works at some point. But it does seem like you've got bad luck with handguns. Maybe get a 3" model 10 HB, if you can find one. Or a 3rd Gen Smith..... An older Glock... buy one from a friend that has one that runs but doesn't shoot it anymore????? Maybe somebody on this forum could help this brother out?????? |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:19:57 PM EDT
[#32]
New firearms are among the least reliable consumer products made, right down there with weed eaters, below lawnmowers and emergency generators. Many crap out first trip to the range. NRA might acknowledge this and try to do something, but they're taking ad $$$ from the gun makers. Consumers lose. Sort of like the rest of the economy. Buyers beware.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:31:23 PM EDT
[#33]
I have a SIG 238 with 2500 rounds through it now and I think all told 5 failures, all of which were easy to clear and either ammo or grip related. Since my wife bought it for me I have owned and sold 3 other pistols. For me, it is good enough to be my last pistol.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:42:43 PM EDT
[#34]
The time machine post was right on. I'd say that HK hasn't sacrificed quality like some of the others. That's said I've owned most of the brands in the OP and none of them broke.
The only handgun I've bought that broke was an XD, and I sent it back, got another and that one broke too. Both on the first mag. I like the VP9, its GTG out of the box and you don't need any aftermarket trigger parts to get a decent trigger. It also ejects brass like it should. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 10:18:31 PM EDT
[#35]
I own a Sig P226 that has never had a failure, CZ-75 has never failed, Grand Power P1 Mk7 has never failed, Walther PPQ has never failed. I have put hundreds of rounds through each. Also have shot hundreds of rounds through a Beretta in the service, has never failed on me even though they have seen many years of use and abuse. I got an XDS that has ran 100% but the sites were off. I have some Ruger rifles and I must say Ruger's QC is pretty hit or miss. I wouldn't buy a new glock either. Have never owned a S&W. Maybe just pick better guns I don't know what to tell you.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 10:26:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a SIG 238 with 2500 rounds through it now and I think all told 5 failures, all of which were easy to clear and either ammo or grip related. Since my wife bought it for me I have owned and sold 3 other pistols. For me, it is good enough to be my last pistol. Got my GF a 238 and it is not very forgiving when it comes to limp-wristing. She is a new shooter and made it jam twice in the first 250-300 rounds but now she can put a whole mag in a 2 inch group without a hiccup if she does her part. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 12:48:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Maybe, I am just lucky. But, I have been shooting for a long time and I only buy well known quality firearms, and I have never sent in a gun to be repaired because of factory failure. The only turd I ever had was a Colt King Cobra. Even handguns that I owned that I ended up hating, like the H&K P7M8, worked flawlessly. I really think a lot of folks issues with handguns is a poor technique and maintenance. I see piss poor technique all the time, and I don't declare myself to be some expert in the shooting sports.
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Posted: 8/5/2015 1:47:30 AM EDT
[#38]
I've had good luck with pistols. The only unreliable one I've ever owned was a 44 mag Desert Eagle. My gen 2 glock 17, true Glock perfection, has never let me down. Have had great luck with all Glocks, even the .380. Still, if you want bomb/joe proof, I highly recommend an HK USP in .45 ACP. The usp is way overbuilt and supremely reliable. A USP tactical and a HK91 should get you through WWIII.
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Posted: 8/5/2015 7:09:21 AM EDT
[#39]
The big names all produce generally trustworthy products with the exception of Taurus.
S&W, Ruger, Glock, SIG, Springfield Armory, HK, FN, Beretta...... And also the occasional lemon as well. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 7:17:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Only bad gun ive had a was a Taurus
Otherwise, its been the magazines that have been the problem |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 7:44:29 AM EDT
[#41]
I've had pretty good luck overall but CZ/Dan Wesson and STI get my vote.
I think the company's that are still independent hold an advantage over the ones that are owned by investment groups. Company's like Remington ( freedom group) have had major QC issues vs a small company like STI. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 8:16:38 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sad Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What you want is a time machine. We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. Sad Except, most industry guys I've read/talked to will say we're in the golden age of handguns. In addition to the diversity and availability, handguns today are overall more reliable across the board than they've ever been. Sure there will be lemons, especially since these companies are pushing out more product than they ever have been. But overall Is easier to find an out of box product than it ever had been. ETA: Good article by Jerry Jones |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 8:53:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except, most industry guys I've read/talked to will say we're in the golden age of handguns. In addition to the diversity and availability, handguns today are overall more reliable across the board than they've ever been. Sure there will be lemons, especially since these companies are pushing out more product than they ever have been. But overall Is easier to find an out of box product than it ever had been. ETA: Good article by Jerry Jones Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What you want is a time machine. We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. Sad Except, most industry guys I've read/talked to will say we're in the golden age of handguns. In addition to the diversity and availability, handguns today are overall more reliable across the board than they've ever been. Sure there will be lemons, especially since these companies are pushing out more product than they ever have been. But overall Is easier to find an out of box product than it ever had been. ETA: Good article by Jerry Jones Guys said that 10 years ago too. And 20 years ago, etc. 
My point being that manufacturing processes are simply getting better and better. I don't believe for a second that qc is going down or that it's any lower than it was (insert number of years here) ago. It's simply that manufacturers are pumping out more guns than ever to meet demand in this all time high of firearm buying, so naturally, there will be more guns that make their way out that have problems. Nature of the beast when you're dealing in quantities like Glock, S&W, and the big names out there are. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 10:59:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys said that 10 years ago too. And 20 years ago, etc.
My point being that manufacturing processes are simply getting better and better. I don't believe for a second that qc is going down or that it's any lower than it was (insert number of years here) ago. It's simply that manufacturers are pumping out more guns than ever to meet demand in this all time high of firearm buying, so naturally, there will be more guns that make their way out that have problems. Nature of the beast when you're dealing in quantities like Glock, S&W, and the big names out there are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What you want is a time machine. We live in a different age, where products are disposable appliances. Porsches in the '60s used to come with gaskets and spare valve train parts in the factory tool kit. Now they don't even repair their own engines, they just drop in a new one. A pistol from S&W, Colt, Walther, etc. from 60 years ago had a lot of labor go into it. You can see this in the absence of machining marks, fine blued finishes, and fitted internals. Today's products are designed for minimum labor, minimum machine time, minimum everything. And if it doesn't work it's cheaper to trash it and pull another from the bin. Sad Except, most industry guys I've read/talked to will say we're in the golden age of handguns. In addition to the diversity and availability, handguns today are overall more reliable across the board than they've ever been. Sure there will be lemons, especially since these companies are pushing out more product than they ever have been. But overall Is easier to find an out of box product than it ever had been. ETA: Good article by Jerry Jones Guys said that 10 years ago too. And 20 years ago, etc.
My point being that manufacturing processes are simply getting better and better. I don't believe for a second that qc is going down or that it's any lower than it was (insert number of years here) ago. It's simply that manufacturers are pumping out more guns than ever to meet demand in this all time high of firearm buying, so naturally, there will be more guns that make their way out that have problems. Nature of the beast when you're dealing in quantities like Glock, S&W, and the big names out there are. I would agree that processes are better but the nature of manufacturing now is to "continuously improve" and cost save. Products aren't being built for quality anymore, they're built for maximum profitability. Profit is the leading effort in manufacturing, quality is secondary and often, bad products are made and still shipped. We live in the age of the accountant now where the process is constantly squeezed for higher output and profit. When you constantly try to cheapen a process or a product, you end up with cheap products. Glocks change to MIM parts and the resultant issues that caused are a perfect illustration of this. This is not isolated to firearms, it's the nature of manufacturing in the US today. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 11:37:54 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's bad luck - I have some knocks on glocks, they aren't perfection, yada yada - but having a G26 AND G19 not work out for you? Almost hard to believe? Even for a hater like me
I do have a high dollar custom 1911, I can tell you it's never given me trouble
On the cheap: if you have someone you know and trust - a friend, looking to say, offload one of their 5 functioning G19s to get something different, try to pick up a gun like that List of some other good pistols that generally have a good rep for working out of the box, aside from mentioned above, include (but is not limited to) HK VP9 Sig SP2022 (not very expensive considering what you're getting) HK P2000 LEM Berettas of most flavors (Big pistols, chunky, safety in a wacky position - but they tend to feed pretty damn reliably) Leaving out: Sig P320 supposedly has triggerslap for some users M&P9 has/had* accuracy issue for some users Production 1911s (many work, some make headaches) Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's bad luck - I have some knocks on glocks, they aren't perfection, yada yada - but having a G26 AND G19 not work out for you? Almost hard to believe? Even for a hater like me
I do have a high dollar custom 1911, I can tell you it's never given me trouble
On the cheap: if you have someone you know and trust - a friend, looking to say, offload one of their 5 functioning G19s to get something different, try to pick up a gun like that List of some other good pistols that generally have a good rep for working out of the box, aside from mentioned above, include (but is not limited to) HK VP9 Sig SP2022 (not very expensive considering what you're getting) HK P2000 LEM Berettas of most flavors (Big pistols, chunky, safety in a wacky position - but they tend to feed pretty damn reliably) Leaving out: Sig P320 supposedly has triggerslap for some users M&P9 has/had* accuracy issue for some users Production 1911s (many work, some make headaches) The sig p320 I had definitely had trigger slap... So bad that it sent shock waves through my forearm. I wanted to love that gun That M&P9 accuracy issue has been taken care of. 1911....meh Quoted:
I don't understand how some people can have such bad experiences. I buy and sell guns like I change socks. I have NEVER had to send one back. The only gun to ever give me so many problems I dumped it was a GLOCK 42 and I'd still say GLOCK is king. The only guns I have ever had to send back was an RRA upper (canted front sight), a m&p 15-22 (ejection issues after several thousand rounds), and recently a 10/22 because someone installed the williams fire sights wrong. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 12:48:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would agree that processes are better but the nature of manufacturing now is to "continuously improve" and cost save. Products aren't being built for quality anymore, they're built for maximum profitability. Profit is the leading effort in manufacturing, quality is secondary and often, bad products are made and still shipped. We live in the age of the accountant now where the process is constantly squeezed for higher output and profit. When you constantly try to cheapen a process or a product, you end up with cheap products. Glocks change to MIM parts and the resultant issues that caused are a perfect illustration of this. This is not isolated to firearms, it's the nature of manufacturing in the US today. This is absolutely true. I have a Pre-29 Smith and Wesson, made in the mid '50s. Nothing S&W (or any other major manufacturer) produces today is even close. |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 1:56:32 PM EDT
[#47]
My Gen 3 Glock 26 has ran flawless for over a thousand rounds on any kind of 9mm I could get my hands on. 10 year old Russian under-powered 9mm fired through it without a single hiccup. I've dropped the gun, holstered a gajillion (it's a number now) times and the slide only shows slight wear marks under certain lighting conditions. The only thing I've done to it is toss on some trijicons.
My Beretta 92 has swallowed the same 9mm as the 26 and never once had a malfunction either. Probably about 2000+ rounds through it. Glock 42 (newer with the proper frame markings) has put down just over 500 rounds of various .380ACP FMJ and JHP with no issues other than me riding the slide lock. So it does seem you have terrible luck OP
At the end of the day, every single company can occasionally produce lemons. I've driven and had Honda/Acura cars exclusively since I could drive and none of them have ever given me an issue, but had a friend with the exact same make/model/year once and it was a pile of shit even from a reputable company like Honda. I've seen Toyota's be piles-of-shit too. Point is that whenever you buy something regardless of how reputable the company you take a chance of getting a pile of shit. What separates the good from bad is the customer service. The few issues I've ever had with my Honda's were always taken care of free of charge with a simple phone call to Honda Corporate. So far I am happy to say I haven't had to call Glock or Beretta to have anything repaired. *knock on wood* |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#48]
I used to know a guy that never had any luck with any firearm he bought.
No matter what it was, something was wrong with it. Some people are just not meant to own guns.... Im sorry for your loss.... 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:24:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to know a guy that never had any luck with any firearm he bought. No matter what it was, something was wrong with it. Some people are just not meant to own guns.... I agree. I work in a LGS and some guys have an issue with every gun they own. Either function, cosmetic, or "Something don't feel right" they send every gun back to the factory. Or complain about such nonsense as "I hear two clicks when I cock the hammer. That CAN't be right!" and back it goes. The factory always claims to make a change that appeases them. I believe the term used by one manufacturer is a "fluff and buff" and return it. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:00:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Have you tried Kimber?
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