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Posted: 6/18/2016 3:10:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What evidence is there to support this? The West Germany-manufactured SIGs are outstanding pistols in every aspect, by anyone's standards. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By CountryHam:
Originally Posted By ZacSquatch:
Any sig P320's on the line yet? Iam interested as well After visiting the Sig factory this past week, I definitely want to put some 320's on the line and see how they hold up. I was able to take a tour throughout the factory and was AMAZED at how things are done there. The new facility is huge and looks more like a sterile aerospace lab than a firearms manufacturing facility. The CEO brought us into his office to show their latest offerings and why it's so much better than the old "West German" made Sig's that I always thought were better. After seeing what the old plant looked like in West Germany as compared to how things are made in their new facility.. there is NO way that the older German stuff could be better. We saw production from beginning to end during a regular work day and the amount of quality control put into each product with so many people verifying and testing is amazing. We also had a chance to visit the Sig Sauer Academy and though I can't go into specifics, they had ELITE agencies training there. We couldn't take pictures of what they were in, how they arrived (amazing) or what weapons they were using but needless to say I was just blown away by what I saw. We will definitely start running some 320's and MCX's along side our MPX full-autos (which run like champs) and provide some insight into them. V/R Ron What evidence is there to support this? The West Germany-manufactured SIGs are outstanding pistols in every aspect, by anyone's standards. And it begins........ |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2016 12:13:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Any info on CZ-75s or their variants?
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Posted: 6/20/2016 11:29:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
And it begins........ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By CountryHam:
Originally Posted By ZacSquatch:
Any sig P320's on the line yet? Iam interested as well After visiting the Sig factory this past week, I definitely want to put some 320's on the line and see how they hold up. I was able to take a tour throughout the factory and was AMAZED at how things are done there. The new facility is huge and looks more like a sterile aerospace lab than a firearms manufacturing facility. The CEO brought us into his office to show their latest offerings and why it's so much better than the old "West German" made Sig's that I always thought were better. After seeing what the old plant looked like in West Germany as compared to how things are made in their new facility.. there is NO way that the older German stuff could be better. We saw production from beginning to end during a regular work day and the amount of quality control put into each product with so many people verifying and testing is amazing. We also had a chance to visit the Sig Sauer Academy and though I can't go into specifics, they had ELITE agencies training there. We couldn't take pictures of what they were in, how they arrived (amazing) or what weapons they were using but needless to say I was just blown away by what I saw. We will definitely start running some 320's and MCX's along side our MPX full-autos (which run like champs) and provide some insight into them. V/R Ron What evidence is there to support this? The West Germany-manufactured SIGs are outstanding pistols in every aspect, by anyone's standards. And it begins........ The two most prominent Sig armorers in the US have been saying the same thing for a few years now. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 8:21:32 AM EDT
[#4]
I've had quite a few West German Sigs. While I was very happy with them I prefer the American Sigs.
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Posted: 7/3/2016 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By samuse: The two most prominent Sig armorers in the US have been saying the same thing for a few years now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By samuse: Originally Posted By Effenpig: Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF: Originally Posted By HendersonDefense: snip After visiting the Sig factory this past week, I definitely want to put some 320's on the line and see how they hold up. I was able to take a tour throughout the factory and was AMAZED at how things are done there. The new facility is huge and looks more like a sterile aerospace lab than a firearms manufacturing facility. The CEO brought us into his office to show their latest offerings and why it's so much better than the old "West German" made Sig's that I always thought were better. After seeing what the old plant looked like in West Germany as compared to how things are made in their new facility.. there is NO way that the older German stuff could be better. We saw production from beginning to end during a regular work day and the amount of quality control put into each product with so many people verifying and testing is amazing. We also had a chance to visit the Sig Sauer Academy and though I can't go into specifics, they had ELITE agencies training there. We couldn't take pictures of what they were in, how they arrived (amazing) or what weapons they were using but needless to say I was just blown away by what I saw. We will definitely start running some 320's and MCX's along side our MPX full-autos (which run like champs) and provide some insight into them. V/R Ron What evidence is there to support this? The West Germany-manufactured SIGs are outstanding pistols in every aspect, by anyone's standards. And it begins........ The two most prominent Sig armorers in the US have been saying the same thing for a few years now. That said, I remember him buying at least one new-manufacture SIG pistol while he worked at the shop. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/12/2016 3:50:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the amazing thread and info!
Are you guys running any RMR'd glocks? Those slide fractures you have got me wondering if they're more prone to those failures due to the slide being cut into |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 6:56:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CFletch:
I worked for a while with a Secret Service guy who had been an armorer for the agency. His opinion of the West German SIG pistols was very high, and said that the later pistols were significantly less durable over high round counts. That said, I remember him buying at least one new-manufacture SIG pistol while he worked at the shop. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CFletch:
Originally Posted By samuse:
Originally Posted By Effenpig:
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What evidence is there to support this? The West Germany-manufactured SIGs are outstanding pistols in every aspect, by anyone's standards. And it begins........ The two most prominent Sig armorers in the US have been saying the same thing for a few years now. That said, I remember him buying at least one new-manufacture SIG pistol while he worked at the shop. I would not be surprised if the new manufacturing methods mean they have less QC issues spotted NOW that need correcting versus older models. My question would be....what is the quality of those looking FOR QC issues? If its on par with their current customer service, I already know first hand its a fucking joke. There seems to be more QC issues with the QC checkers of the American Plant, even if their parts are better overall. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 4:15:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marksman14:
I would not be surprised if the new manufacturing methods mean they have less QC issues spotted NOW that need correcting versus older models. My question would be....what is the quality of those looking FOR QC issues? If its on par with their current customer service, I already know first hand its a fucking joke. There seems to be more QC issues with the QC checkers of the American Plant, even if their parts are better overall. I am definitely not a shill for Sig Sauer but I can tell that after meeting the management and the other staff, they REALLY take their jobs serious. Sig has spent some money hiring away talent from other companies. The funniest thing was when we were on the floor inspecting their CNC's, I ran into a guy who worked at Glock for years. They hired him and his wife away from Georgia and moved them up to New Hampshire for a special projects division. I know it had to be more than money to get him away from Glock.. it had to be the satisfaction of getting to come up with new ideas on the market. Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron |
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CAN
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Posted: 7/13/2016 8:06:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Have you noticed any difference in the USA made glocks vs the Austrian made ones?
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Posted: 7/13/2016 11:18:34 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I am definitely not a shill for Sig Sauer but I can tell that after meeting the management and the other staff, they REALLY take their jobs serious. Sig has spent some money hiring away talent from other companies. The funniest thing was when we were on the floor inspecting their CNC's, I ran into a guy who worked at Glock for years. They hired him and his wife away from Georgia and moved them up to New Hampshire for a special projects division. I know it had to be more than money to get him away from Glock.. it had to be the satisfaction of getting to come up with new ideas on the market. Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I would not be surprised if the new manufacturing methods mean they have less QC issues spotted NOW that need correcting versus older models. My question would be....what is the quality of those looking FOR QC issues? If its on par with their current customer service, I already know first hand its a fucking joke. There seems to be more QC issues with the QC checkers of the American Plant, even if their parts are better overall. I am definitely not a shill for Sig Sauer but I can tell that after meeting the management and the other staff, they REALLY take their jobs serious. Sig has spent some money hiring away talent from other companies. The funniest thing was when we were on the floor inspecting their CNC's, I ran into a guy who worked at Glock for years. They hired him and his wife away from Georgia and moved them up to New Hampshire for a special projects division. I know it had to be more than money to get him away from Glock.. it had to be the satisfaction of getting to come up with new ideas on the market. Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron Ron, Do you have any polymer Sigs on the line and how are they holding up? With the glocks and the cracked slides is Glock fixing those? Have they showed any interest into looking into the cracking and coming up with a solution or are they just saying at that round count it's going to happen? |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 11:53:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I am definitely not a shill for Sig Sauer but I can tell that after meeting the management and the other staff, they REALLY take their jobs serious. Sig has spent some money hiring away talent from other companies. The funniest thing was when we were on the floor inspecting their CNC's, I ran into a guy who worked at Glock for years. They hired him and his wife away from Georgia and moved them up to New Hampshire for a special projects division. I know it had to be more than money to get him away from Glock.. it had to be the satisfaction of getting to come up with new ideas on the market. Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
I would not be surprised if the new manufacturing methods mean they have less QC issues spotted NOW that need correcting versus older models. My question would be....what is the quality of those looking FOR QC issues? If its on par with their current customer service, I already know first hand its a fucking joke. There seems to be more QC issues with the QC checkers of the American Plant, even if their parts are better overall. I am definitely not a shill for Sig Sauer but I can tell that after meeting the management and the other staff, they REALLY take their jobs serious. Sig has spent some money hiring away talent from other companies. The funniest thing was when we were on the floor inspecting their CNC's, I ran into a guy who worked at Glock for years. They hired him and his wife away from Georgia and moved them up to New Hampshire for a special projects division. I know it had to be more than money to get him away from Glock.. it had to be the satisfaction of getting to come up with new ideas on the market. Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron I know for a fact you're not a shill, you're reports have been forthcoming, honest and show absolutely no bias whatsoever. Not a concern! I've just been very upset with their CS, or lack thereof when it came to a very specific 1400 dollar gun, and lack of desire to fix a problem that is a serious issue. Not the only one who noticed it too. They may be producing the best guns they've ever put out, but their CS is an absolute joke. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 3:21:09 PM EDT
[#12]
It's a lot of pages, maybe it's been run through, but I am curious if you have ran any of the newer rugers into the ground.
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IL, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2016 7:07:27 PM EDT
[#13]
If you got over 100k out of a 500 glock, I would say you got your moneys worth. Have you thrown any vp9s on the line or only usp's? Also are the usp's of the 9mm variety or 45?
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NM, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:15:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:28:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocGlockster:
You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:45:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Again it's been said before in here, but great example of the value of this thread. I've been debating whether I should buy another G34. I have about 10K rounds on mine right now and with practicing a lot for IDPA 10K rounds in a year is very possible. I might go ahead and do it. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:48:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Yes, Henderson Defense, please keep us posted to any improvement or not in the slide cracking issue based on how often the recoil springs are replaced or not replaced.
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Posted: 7/20/2016 1:22:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CyberIntel:
Again it's been said before in here, but great example of the value of this thread. I've been debating whether I should buy another G34. I have about 10K rounds on mine right now and with practicing a lot for IDPA 10K rounds in a year is very possible. I might go ahead and do it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CyberIntel:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Again it's been said before in here, but great example of the value of this thread. I've been debating whether I should buy another G34. I have about 10K rounds on mine right now and with practicing a lot for IDPA 10K rounds in a year is very possible. I might go ahead and do it. G34 has much more material where these cracks are occurring. But buy another 34 anyways, because why not! |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 2:07:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Guns shooting extremely high round counts of .40, .367 Sig, or 9mm NATO will ALL eventually crack the slide; it's inevitable. No one makes a super-gun...they're all mortal.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By monadh:
OP At the start of the thread, there was a statement that you would discuss the performance of the 1911 in more detail, but after scanning the 18 pages of the thread I didn't see it. There was an ocassional reference to 1911s but it seems most of the talk has been about Glock, Sig, and Beretta performance. Did I just miss your comments? Regards. From my experience... When a 1911 frame cracks it tends to crack in non-critical areas. If it's an earlier style frame, there will be a crack in the slide rail where the slide stop goes through. Later guns just milled this out and created a flex point. The other most common place for a cracked frame is where the dust cover joins the slide rail. Seems to always start on the left side, and will work it's way around to about 60% and then stop. If a 1911 cracks a slide and that cracked slide is allowed to go long, it will pull the slide rails off of the frame. As for 1911 slides, they crack at the same place as pretty much every other slide out there, 1/16"-1/8" of the breech face, usually on the right side. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 2:55:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#21]
Removed - Maynard
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 2:56:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#22]
Removed - Maynard
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Posted: 7/20/2016 3:12:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#23]
Removed
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Posted: 7/20/2016 3:45:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#24]
Removed
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#25]
Yeah, I reported it too. Unless it's me you want banned?!?!? 
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:05:19 PM EDT
[#26]
All is well
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USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:34:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron At least it's the slides failing and not the frames so i can get a new slide sent to me without the FFL inconvenience if it comes to that. Thanks for continuing to update us Ron. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:47:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hero:
Yeah, I reported it too. Unless it's me you want banned?!?!? Not at all.
Fucking jerk was messing with one of the best threads on here. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:48:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maynard:
All is well Thanks brother. That is the first time I have ever used the report button, guess I'm a rat now 
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Posted: 7/20/2016 4:59:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maynard]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWM:
Thanks brother. That is the first time I have ever used the report button, guess I'm a rat now Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWM:
Originally Posted By Maynard:
All is well Thanks brother. That is the first time I have ever used the report button, guess I'm a rat now Something's fucky with the report button as I didn't get a single report on this issue. I was reading through some threads and happened upon this one. Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread! 
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AR, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2016 5:14:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Click2Boom:
Thanks for continuing to update us Ron. If a frame were to fail and you sent it back to the factory, provided they don't change the serial number, it can come directly back to you without involving an FFL. Some manufacturers will destroy the old frame and issue a new one with the same serial number, and some won't; just depends on how Glock handles that. But with a Glock, it would be exceptionally easy to keep the old serial number. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 5:23:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWM:
Not at all.
Fucking jerk was messing with one of the best threads on here. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWM:
Originally Posted By Hero:
Yeah, I reported it too. Unless it's me you want banned?!?!? Not at all.
Fucking jerk was messing with one of the best threads on here. Absolutely! Totally unacceptable. Thanks Maynard. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2016 10:07:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I mentioned in the AR/M4 thread that I will get a topic started on shotguns and the biggest teaser is.... Benelli M4. V/R Ron Great service you are doing here, THANKS !! What parts break if any on the Benelli M4 ? round count ? |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 8:20:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3030ai:
If a frame were to fail and you sent it back to the factory, provided they don't change the serial number, it can come directly back to you without involving an FFL. Some manufacturers will destroy the old frame and issue a new one with the same serial number, and some won't; just depends on how Glock handles that. But with a Glock, it would be exceptionally easy to keep the old serial number. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3030ai:
Originally Posted By Click2Boom:
Thanks for continuing to update us Ron. If a frame were to fail and you sent it back to the factory, provided they don't change the serial number, it can come directly back to you without involving an FFL. Some manufacturers will destroy the old frame and issue a new one with the same serial number, and some won't; just depends on how Glock handles that. But with a Glock, it would be exceptionally easy to keep the old serial number. When Glock had their issues with the Exx frames blowing out the left rear rail that's what they did. I had a G20 go back and the frame send back to me was the same serial number, but with a 1 at the end of the SN. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 12:35:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PRAIRIERAT:
Great service you are doing here, THANKS !! What parts break if any on the Benelli M4 ? round count ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PRAIRIERAT:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I mentioned in the AR/M4 thread that I will get a topic started on shotguns and the biggest teaser is.... Benelli M4. V/R Ron Great service you are doing here, THANKS !! What parts break if any on the Benelli M4 ? round count ? Nothing on the M4 has broken to date and it's almost FOUR years on the line. In my experience, the Benelli M4 is the Glock of the shotgun world. V/R Ron |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:18:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Another great thread op.
Thanks for taking the time to share all this info with us. If I make it back to Vegas, ill be there. Txl |
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USA
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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:56:07 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gunhand1:
Any info on CZ-75s or their variants? I'd like to know too |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:02:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Again, I am NO shill and have expressed how the Glock's continue to function even after the slide cracks BUT, we have experience two more broken slides since my last update. We are not swapping out all the recoil springs at approximately 10,000 rounds right now to see if that helps reduce the amount of broken slides. I will check to see if there's been any change since making instituting that change in the armory. V/R Ron You make it sound like Glocks are disintegrating right and left. Just for clarification: do these Glocks have a buttload of rounds through them or are they experiencing premature failures? Some of the most recent Glocks to fail have done so in the 20,000-30,000 round count range. We have at least five Glock down right now because of cracked slides. We've had some of our older models on the line much longer with MUCH higher round counts and didn't suffer from this type of failure. V/R Ron Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:28:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 556NAT0:
I'd like to know too Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 556NAT0:
Originally Posted By gunhand1:
Any info on CZ-75s or their variants? I'd like to know too I don't believe they have many CZs (0) on the line. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:30:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I'll be in Vegas in December.
How do I get the tour  ?
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Posted: 8/29/2016 6:54:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. We don't have any CZ's other than Bren 805's, Evo 3's and original skorpian machine pistols. As for our tours, send me a message and I will get you squared away. V/R Ron |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2016 7:13:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. We don't have any CZ's other than Bren 805's, Evo 3's and original skorpian machine pistols. As for our tours, send me a message and I will get you squared away. V/R Ron Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. We don't have any CZ's other than Bren 805's, Evo 3's and original skorpian machine pistols. As for our tours, send me a message and I will get you squared away. V/R Ron At what point do you see the Gen 4's breaking? 30,000 rounds, 50,000? While they break more than the Gen 3's, it still sounds like they are amazingly durable. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 3:58:57 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DanW: At what point do you see the Gen 4's breaking? 30,000 rounds, 50,000? While they break more than the Gen 3's, it still sounds like they are amazingly durable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DanW: Originally Posted By HendersonDefense: Originally Posted By 2tired2run: Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. We don't have any CZ's other than Bren 805's, Evo 3's and original skorpian machine pistols. As for our tours, send me a message and I will get you squared away. V/R Ron At what point do you see the Gen 4's breaking? 30,000 rounds, 50,000? While they break more than the Gen 3's, it still sounds like they are amazingly durable. The points where the Gen 4s are breaking are not unique to that model so I can't help but wonder if they are just being shot more than the Gen 3s. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 9/2/2016 4:01:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. I'm curious about this too. I would think the weak portion of the slide on a Gen 4 would be the loop that holds the recoil assembly at the front. I don't see why the slides would break at the ejection port more on Gen4's than Gen3's unless there's been a lowering of manufacturing quality or they are being shot way more than Gen3's. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 5:03:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocGlockster:
I'm curious about this too. I would think the weak portion of the slide on a Gen 4 would be the loop that holds the recoil assembly at the front. I don't see why the slides would break at the ejection port more on Gen4's than Gen3's unless there's been a lowering of manufacturing quality or they are being shot way more than Gen3's. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. I'm curious about this too. I would think the weak portion of the slide on a Gen 4 would be the loop that holds the recoil assembly at the front. I don't see why the slides would break at the ejection port more on Gen4's than Gen3's unless there's been a lowering of manufacturing quality or they are being shot way more than Gen3's. The rear of the port doesn't surprise me- isn't that right next to a frame rail? While I have heard of the nose of the slide breaking (as well as breach face failure), it seems that more force is regularly applied to the rear frame rails and the associated section of slide. I agree- clealy something has changed between generations, whether it is a geometry change, a metallurgy change, or something else. Interestingly, if BV isn't experiencing any breach face failures at all, that does actually bolster the claim that the Glock breach face failures may be a result of dry firing. I love this thread! |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 6:20:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendelsbane:
The rear of the port doesn't surprise me- isn't that right next to a frame rail? While I have heard of the nose of the slide breaking (as well as breach face failure), it seems that more force is regularly applied to the rear frame rails and the associated section of slide. I agree- clealy something has changed between generations, whether it is a geometry change, a metallurgy change, or something else. Interestingly, if BV isn't experiencing any breach face failures at all, that does actually bolster the claim that the Glock breach face failures may be a result of dry firing. I love this thread! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendelsbane:
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By 2tired2run:
Ron What gen/caliber are failing in the 20-30k range? I'm curious if it's the newer dual recoil spring assembly design. The Glocks that suffer the most failures are the Gen 4's. The frame suffers a crack at the metal "lip" that rides in the slide and the slide cracks at weakest point of the ejection port. I'm curious about this too. I would think the weak portion of the slide on a Gen 4 would be the loop that holds the recoil assembly at the front. I don't see why the slides would break at the ejection port more on Gen4's than Gen3's unless there's been a lowering of manufacturing quality or they are being shot way more than Gen3's. The rear of the port doesn't surprise me- isn't that right next to a frame rail? While I have heard of the nose of the slide breaking (as well as breach face failure), it seems that more force is regularly applied to the rear frame rails and the associated section of slide. I agree- clealy something has changed between generations, whether it is a geometry change, a metallurgy change, or something else. Interestingly, if BV isn't experiencing any breach face failures at all, that does actually bolster the claim that the Glock breach face failures may be a result of dry firing. I love this thread! I haven't heard this before how would dry firing cause breach face failures? |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 2:04:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Grendelsbane]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run:
I haven't heard this before how would dry firing cause breach face failures? Presumably a large number of repeated impacts against the back of the breach face eventually cause crack propagation and eventually structural failure of the breach face. The fact that this failure is relatively rare may either mean that it takes a lot of impacts, a slide with metallurgical imperfections beyond the norm, or both. Or it could just mean most of us don't do enough dry practice...
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AR, USA
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Posted: 9/4/2016 2:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joenuclear1]
[#48]
IIRC the Sig 1911's were the least trouble in your initial report. Is that still true?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/8/2016 1:54:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Is it fair to say that in this sample size the Gen3 Glocks are out living the G4's by a significant margin?
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CO, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2016 12:11:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joenuclear1:
IIRC the Sig 1911's were the least trouble in your initial report. Is that still true? When the youtuber Mr GunsNGear interviewed the armorer, they mentioned Rock Islands being the least problematic. |
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