I got on the thought because I was thinking of getting a surplus 92s with euro style relase. after looking into it im going to forget about the berretta and 9mm all togethrer. I have a nice 1911. Ordered a really nice adjustable kensight rear for it yesturday. i have 4 mags for that. But i have thrown away mags that don't work quite right. I went shooting with friends and my pistol looked like junk because of the faulty mag.

Mike,

Unfortunately, a lot of magazines don't work quite right.  Most of them are not fixable besides cleaning inside and out.  Your question is sufficiently broad that you have gotten a lot of answers, many of which are just arguing.  I'll try once more to explain a rational system regarding magazines.

Duty Magazines:
-With duty magazines, the goal is to always have a supply of known tested work for sure duty magazines.  
-A CCW or police carried pistol should have two or even three full sets of magazines that have been tested through use, never used for any thing other than duty or CCW, and protected from damage.  
-You always know those magazines will work.  
-You know that because the last time you used them, they worked and since then you have not let anything happen to them.
-Likewise, the ammunition in those magazines should be fresh, clean, and kept that way.  
-You do not constantly load and unload the ammo in those magazines.  Just doing that degrades the dependability of the ammo by nicking the rims and sides of the cases.  
-How often to replace the top two or three rounds in a magazine where they are chambered, extracted, reloaded, and rechambered when a gun has to be cleared is a whole nother long question.
-More than a couple times should mean the top rounds get junked and replaced.
-Neither the magazines nor the ammo in them are an expendable, throwaway, droppable, stomppable item.
-You protect those knowing they are all that stands between you and harm.
-There is never even a question of dropping them on the ground.  You don't use them for anything other than carrying on duty or CCW.
-When you rotate duty or CCW magazine sets, rotate the ammo in them.

Training Magazines:
-Training magazines are just that.
-Other sets of magazines for shooting at practice, qualification, or training sessions.
-With these, you push the button and drop them on the ground without a single thought.  
-They either get damaged or not, but so what.  Do with them anything your training theories dictate that you would do in the real world if reloading while someone was shooting at you.  
-Practice the same as you would in theory do for real.
-That is usually, push the button and reload a new one and move on.
-These magazines are marked or identified differently than the duty magazines.
-Train for real, trash the mags, worry not.

Competition Magazines:
-Note that duty guns don't too often get used for competion.  Some do of course.
-Competition guns and their accessories including magazines are a subset of equipment.
-I personally would never mix competition magazines with any CCW or duty gear.  Period.
-If you can play the game, buy the gear to keep it separate.

The end result of this set of ideas is that your duty or CCW gun always has known to work for sure magzines with ammo that you have not wrecked by loading and unloading 10 times in the last 2 months.

Babying duty/ccw magazines will get you killed on the street, three times.  They need to be tested fully before you use them and that includes drops.

So you drop your pistol a couple times each range trip to make sure it will still work?

Please explain how dropping a mag on the ground does anything to test reliable function.

It not so much dropping in particular but the idea that your duty/ccw magazine should be babied and never get dropped, slapped around or abused in any way.  They need to be tested fully before you carry them and that includes dropping them (full and empty) at least a few times.  Sure if you want to have other sets for training and competition that is fine but you better run your duty/ccw magazines through ALL the same ringers at least a few times before you trust them.

Imagine a magazine that is babied and never dropped or handled roughly.  The first time you need that magazine, in an adrenaline fuel panic, you rip that spare magazine from its mag pouch and have the base pad come off in your hand because it had a sub-surface molding flaw that could not be see and it would not fail until stressed.  Likewise, you drop that full magazine on the ground and since you babied it you never realized the weld up the back was flawed from the factory and the body splits when it hits the concrete rendering it useless.  You don't have to continually abuse your duty/ccw magazines but you better put them through a realistic set of test before you trust them.  That needs to include dropping them IMHO.

Sorry, but I see dropping them as more likely to create the situations you're concerned about, rather than detect them. But I guess as long as I'm not using your stuff and you're not using mine, it doesn't matter!

You both have good points.

 


A few drops is only going to hurt the magazines with inherent issues.




Dropping them all the time is going to cause them.


 

Either one is not something you want to carry around.

1911 you say?

just buy a few of these and blast away and drop mags without worry.

1911 mag problems can usually be traced to one of three components, weak springs, misshapen lips, poorly designed or damaged followers. 1 & 3 can be replaced with better units fairly cheap, much cheaper than new quality mags, with components from the top of the line 1911 mag producers. Lips can be tweaked by the user with a little understanding/research.

Also, not knocking eight rounders, I like them, but your chances of finding good seven round mags are better.

Thats cool that they offer cases of 25 of them. Next time i have 250 i want to spend. Probably in about a month or so. I i just won a bid on a distressed ruger single six. this morning for 228.00 that im going to spruce up.

What i think sums up the argument for me was the officer getting killed over keeping empties. even if a mag breaks when you drop it. its already empty and has served its purpose.

Mike,

You win the blue ribbon.  You get it.

(Otherwise, the vast collection of knowledge on the internet never ceases to amaze me.  Its sort of like politics, if you go far enough right, you end up on the left.)

Nothing wrong with having a dump pouch, but I does come after neutralizing the threat and getting your weapon up.

One of the worst habits you can have is being mindful of where your mags are going when you drop them from the gun.  Any attention you give to that will bite you in the ass eventually.

I try not to shoot over concrete.  Anything else -- dirt, mud, wood, carpet -- is just fine.

Using a pouch gets you in the habit of using two hands to remove a magazine.  You can't be putting one in if you're busy taking one out.

If you're watching your magazines fall, you're out of the game.

OP I'd suggest you find a high capacity pistol. I'm not a 1911 or a .45 hater, but the FBI did an extensive study of police shootings and accuracy was somewhere between 20 and 10%. If you also consider that on average you need 3-5 vital hits to put down an opponent, simple math says you are going to reload multiple times before the target goes down. That time is also more time you are exposed to a threat as well.

The FBI study was about 9mm vs .40 vs .45, but it yielded all sorts of good data. Its an excellent read.

I agree with this, not sure what benefit there is to throwing duty mags on the ground.... but I trust the gun and mags I train with - that includes stripping and dropping my mags. I know its a little counter-intuitive... but... I like it and wouldn't feel comfortable running mags that I hadn't run quals with (our qual includes a combat reload, and no one is going to allow us to retain a dead mag).

The mags are either good enough for duty or they aren't.

Maybe you need to reload maybe not. It depend on one shooting skills and your opponent willing to die. After seeing videos and reading countless of gunfights after report it best to pack at least one extra magazine.



IIRC there is a cop carrying over 140 rounds. It was due to his bad experience in a gunfight. Down to his last rounds before the bad gun decided to die. I believe he pumped over 17 .40 cal rounds into the bad guy.



As for dropping mag yeah you should drop it. Most gunfights last 2 seconds. 2 seconds deciding if you're alive or dead. Gunfights that last longer will most likely need to change magazine. The cop gunfight I mention only lasted for less than a minutes. In that time he changed two magazines, got out of his patrol car, and fine cover.



 

Good grief I don't know what kind of ground some of you guys shoot on, but the ground where I shoot my handguns isn't anywhere near hard enough to damage a magazine. I don't shoot on concrete either. When I drop a mag I don't look to see where it went, I'm only concerned with getting the next mag in the gun cleanly. I don't keep separate "range mags" either. The mags I use either work or they get tossed, no sense in making something more complicated than it should be.

OP, you should start practicing "El Presidente" drills.

For no other reason then you'll end up wanting to see how fast you can go. No way to go fast unless you drop those mags without thought

I drop mags in the dirt all the time during competition and at the range and have never had magazine issues.

That's my philosophy.  If I win I'll go back and get them or the cops will mark them.  If I lost I have no further need for them.

Yes and No on dropping mags as the tactical situation will dictate.  I've been in fights where I dropped the mag out of the gun, reloaded then put the mag in the cargo pocket of my trousers.  Being in a 7.5 hr gun fight 80 miles behind friendly lines you think about reloading those when the time presents itself.  Others you are in the fight of your life and need to get that gun up and running as soon as you can.  I have always dropped my mags in training and used those same mags in for roll out.  I clean and inspect my mags as needed or routine maintenance.  Living in a hole in the ground in the desert for a week, sand will get into every thing you still need to preform maintenance on weapons, mags and other equipment daily.  Used those same magazines swimming in salt water, flush with fresh water as soon as you can and clean later.  I'm hard on my equipment but I do not abuse it and then I take care of it.


CD