I have a pretty new S&W 686 Plus - have put about 150 rounds of .38 with no problem.  Great gun.

The other day, I tried some .357 made by PMC.  Gun handled it great, but with each shot, it felt I was getting hit in the face with a bunch of tiny particles.  It didn't really hurt, and I put about 20 rounds through it.  Went to the desk and asked about it - was asked if I had cleaned the gun after I had last shot it.  I said no.  They suggested I use a copper brush and clean the barrel.  I talked to another staff member who thought that cleaning wasn't the issue in a gun with only 150 rounds prior to this.

I don't feel any of this using .38, but I also know that .38 is not .357  :)

Now, it was somewhat breezy in the shooting lane areas.  I went back, and fired 7 more shots, but leaned my body as far out into the lane as possible - away from where I suspected the breeze might affect things - and there was a significant lessening of the particles hitting my face - but I still felt some.

I'm going back to the range tomorrow, but was curious about your thoughts on this.  I'll use the remaining PMC that I didn't shoot the other day, along with a box of .357 from a different maker.  I'll also ask to use the smallest bay, which should have the least air flow (I know indoor ranges need ventilation...sometimes it is pretty breezy in there, but I've never had this happen before).  If the problem persists, the 2nd staff member mentioned above said that it could be a fit problem.

Just curious what some here who are more experienced may think.

Thanks in advance ~

Try some other .357 mag loads. I really miss my Colt King Cobra .357 mag. Shot great yet that bitch bucked more than .44 mags even with it's 6" barrel. Yet did a great group with iron sites at 100 yards. About 3ish inches with irons. Now granted I only shot it in indoor ranges yet never noticed any kickback from gasses or anything else. I did mainly shoot hollow point rounds and FMJ's. No wad cutters or lead rounds. Best ones that shot out of it were the good old Black Talons. Really wish they still produced those or what ever they changed to (ranger XST/SXT or something like that) because they shot great.

Thank you both for your thoughts.

The bay I was in did have typical dividers, and when I did lean the gun out ahead of the dividers, the impact was noticeably reduced.  My face was still between them, though  :)

One thing I might add, I saw plenty of muzzle flash.  Don't know whether that is here nor there with this combination of gun and ammo.  

Gun has a 3" barrel.

Welcome to the world of revolvers.

It's pretty common to get sand blasted with .357.  It ejects quite a lot of mass, and the short barrel is probably keeping it from fully burning the powder so it's more noticeable what gets blown back on to you.  It's kind of a shock how much powder doesn't ignite, sweep a range floor after a heavy day, and unburnt powder makes up a significant volume.

Getting hit in the face with things while shooting a revolver is also an indicator of a potential timing problem.  The revolver is firing before the cylinder is lined up with the forcing cone and you are shaving material off the edge of the bullet as it hits the edge of the forcing cone.

Was going to post this as well.



 

If you are getting hit with bits of lead it suggests either a timing problem, where the cylinder is not properly aligned with the forcing cone, or it suggests a serious leading problem where you're getting hit with bit of lead that build up on the forcing cone and them get shot loose.

If you are getting hit with bits of powder, it suggests that the load is using a slow burning colloidal ball powder that is not completely burned as the powder leaves the case.  Some of these un burnt particles get forced through the cylinder gap and can bounce back at you.   If the forcing cone gap or end play in the revolver is excessive, you'll find you get more of this.

Spitting powder back at you is fairly common in the .357 mag where many companies use a slow powder to get maximum velocity in a long barrel, even if it is less than optimum in a shorter barrel.   Popular wisdom is that these slow powders give maximum velocities in the .357 mag regardless of barrel length, but my chronograph has never agreed with this internet/gun writer 'wisdom'.  I'll use a medium rate burning pistol powder in my 2"-3" .357 Magnums and it will generate velocities equal to or higher than max loads of slow burning powders every time - and it won't pelt me with unburnt powder.

This is great information, and I appreciate you all helping me add to my 'knowledge database'.  

I used to have a standard 686/4" barrel, sold it to buy the 686 Plus/3" barrel.  I had no trouble with .357 on the previous 686, and used only Monarch ammo from Academy.  

Today I went to the range with the remaining PMC .357 ammo, along with a box of Monarch.  I started with the PMC, stood as I usually do in the lane, and got a face full.  Then I leaned forward so the gun was beyond the partitions (I had also asked for a lane where the ventilation/breeze would be the least, and they accomodated).  With the gun fully beyond the partition, I got no spray, shooting about 20 rounds.  

Then I tried the Monarch ammo, and got no spray - no matter where I stood.  So it appears that the Monarch doesn't send so much stuff out of the cylinder area, and the spray-back was due to the partitions combined with what seems to be a somewhat more powerful .357 cartridge (in snooping around the net, I saw a couple - and only a couple - of references that PMC was regarded as a fairly hot .357 round).

Again, thanks for the thinking and information.

Sounds like the PMC is loaded with slower powder, and it's not all being burned in a 3" barrel. I bet it would work really well in a 6" barrel.

Try it single action.   It should lock up.    See if there is less particulate matter to the face in single action mode.   If so, you might have a timing issue in double action mode.

I had to send back a model 66-5 for the same reason. I wrote it off at first, and then it drew blood. The gun came back with no explanation of the work performed. Close evaluation revealed that they used a forcing cone reamer and then it was all good to go.



Could be a timing problem, but I'd put my money on it being a forcing cone with a squared, non-beveled edge. These little details seem to get overlooked on the newer production, non-PC guns.

I fired in both single and double action, as I usually do when I go to the range so I get to practice both.

Right now, I'll have to assume that there was no difference between SA & DA, as I don't recall noticing a difference at the time.  However, I did not move between shooting in SA and DA for the purpose of checking to see if it affected my situation (rather, I switched back and forth every few rounds because that's what I always do).  One would *think* I would have noticed a difference, but it is worth checking it out.

Next time I'm at the range (maybe tomorrow) I'll try and get more PMC ammo and see how it goes.

Thanks.

That is exactly what I was thinking. I have a S&W 386 PD .357 magnum with the 2.5" barrel and never had any "spray" from the cylinder when firing .357 magnums. Years ago I was firing a 4" barrel .357 magnum revolver and noticed tiny particles hitting me in the face when firing. Not enough to really cause any abrasions to my face, just like getting sand blast in my face. That was the timing being off and the lead bullet shavings hitting my face. I would recommend the OP have the timing checked before it gets dangerously worse.

When I lean out so that the gun is no longer between the lane partitions there is no blow-back of material into my face - none.  Would that not indicate, as another poster suggested, that particles were blowing out sideways, hitting the lane partitions (the lanes are fairly narrow, and angled a bit toward me) and ricocheting into my face?

Another brand of ammo had no issues, no matter where I positioned the gun in the lane.  

I have no problem having a gunsmith (or S&W) check it out, but want to be just a little bit surer that a problem may actually exist.

I got some more PCM ammo tonight, so I can check tomorrow if there is any difference between firing DA and SA.

I'd say it's not a timing issue then. Indoor ranges are not my favorite place to shoot for sure.

I used to shoot at the NRA headquarters range where the lanes were fairly narrow and I never encountered this issue there any more frequently than at an outdoor range.

You've also largely answered your own question in terms of switching ammo and seeing the problem disappear.

If you are getting hit with lead particles then the problem is almost always poor timing that is either causing the bullet to be shaved in extreme cases, or causing severe leading that then starts flaking lead off the forcing cone after 20-30 rounds and throwing it back at you.

As I noted above, the major mechanical issues that may cause the shooter to get pelted with powder grains, rather than lead, can also be poor timing, or excessive end shake or cylinder head gap.  However, most .357 magnum revolvers will spit some powder back at you whenever you are using a slow burning colloidal ball powder that is not fully burned before exiting the cylinder and/or barrel.  Some of that partially burnt colloidal ball powder will get forced out the cylinder gap and bounce off the rear face of the front frame strap and forcing cone, probably assisted by the pressure wave from the muzzle blast.  Shooters blame it on the range, blame it on the wind, etc, but it's mostly an artifact of the powder being used aggravated by larger cylinder gaps and shorter barrels.  

These are unfortunately very popular powders to use in full power ,357 mag loads as they are both comparatively slow burning and very economical for an ammunition company to obtain as they are inexpensive to make and very easy for a basilican to mix to the specified burn traits in very large lots.  If you are a hand loader and switch to a faster burning flake powder, like Unique, you'll probably find the problem disappears, and if it's a short barrel .357 Mag, you also won't experience any significant velocity loss compared to a slow burning powder that is more efficient in a long barrel than a short one.  

Much appreciated - thank you.

As mentioned, I've got another box of PMC, plus leftover Monarch.  I thoroughly cleaned the revolver just now, and will try things out again this afternoon or evening and see if there's any difference DA vs. SA.

Back from the range.

- Thoroughly cleaned the revolver this AM

- At the range, started with PMC ammo, huge difference, noticed very little spray.  Might not have noticed it had it been like this a few days ago, and was 'waiting for it'.  No discernible difference between SA & DA.
  Kept shooting left of point of aim.

- Switched to Monarch.  Felt nothing in the face (as before), but ammo shot to point of aim, not left, as did the PMC.

Thanks for all the info everyone provided.  

A 3" is gonna flash.  If your muzzle isn't extended past the dividers, it will hit them and splash you.  

Try shooting it outdoors.  

I use my 4" with full house loads to make the range less crowded.  

Full power loads in either my 2 3/4" Speed Six, my 3" Model 60, my 2.125" Model 60, or my 3" SP101 will all get some attention at the range, and will prompt people next to you yo use muffs and plugs even at an outdoor range.  My 3" Model 13 will be just as loud.

Practically speaking if you ever use a .357 Mag (short barrel or not) for a self defense shoot indoors, you'll want to see an ear doctor within a day or so to get a prescription of steroids and you'll need to wear ear plugs for a couple weeks to let things heal and minimize the potential for long term hearing loss. Seriously.  Otherwise you and Mr. Tinnitus will be life long companions.

A large bore lower pressure round like the .45 ACP is a much more indoor friendly self defense weapon - one of the reasons it was favored by tunnel rats in Vietnam.  

Interesting stuff!

Yesterday I was assigned a lane and ended right up next to a guy.  When I stepped back from the...counter?...shelf?... for a moment, he looked at me and smiled and asked, "Is that .357 magnum?"  

There have been any number of times when I'll notice someone shooting very loud rounds, but I've had no idea what was being shot.  Could have been .357, .44, .500.  Well, the .500 made the floor shake, so I think I can spot that one by feel, now  

I've been thinking of keeping this as a night table gun with .357 in it, but now I'm not so sure.  God forbid I ever have to fire that in our bedroom a 2-3 times, will injury to the ear be something to consider relative to 9mm, 38 special or .45 acp?  It is a big room, but I don't think that would make much difference.  Be pretty crappy to scare away or put down a bad guy only to suffer some hearing damage in return.

+1.  This.  I had a Colt Trooper in 22lr that did the same thing.  The bullet was hitting off center on the forcing cone and send powder and lead particles spraying back.

It's a very low probability that you'd ever have to use it.  I carry a .357 in the winter months and keep it on the night stand.  One perspective is that hearing damage is better than being dead.

However, I also have a set of electronic ear muffs on the night stand as well.  They fold and don't take up much space, and with them on, I can hear things in the house much better than I can without them on.  Consequently, if there is time to put them on, they are an potential tactical advantage as well as hearing protection.

Timing can be easily checked pulling the trigger and watching if the hammer drops before the cylinder is locked. Out of time revolvers will spit tiny bits of lead as mentioned above. I've had it happen a few times but the only body part getting sprayed was my hands. Nothing close to my face.

WELCOME to the World of the 357 MAGNUM!  That blowback you're getting is just to remind you, you're shooting the DEADLIEST Self Defense Cartridge of ALL!  Long Live the King!

Marshall & Sanow have been debunked.