I went into a gun store the other day with my wife.  She wanted me to buy her some earmuffs for when we all go as a family, we were short one pair.  Now she's got a matching pink set that we had gotten for my daughter.  

So anyways....  She tells me she has the desire to shoot something and have something around for defense, but it has always been a challenge getting her to actually shoot.  

I was a dolt and did everything backwards with her.  I have no clue why I did this and feel dumb about it.  I always desired she know how to defend herself if I wasn't around and I'd have her hold all the guns I have.  Rifles seem too, well probably heavy and unwieldy.  So we have always stuck with handguns.  Well that's not true, last summer she shot the 10/22 and it was really the first time she didn't look scared or overwhelmed from the experience.  And I'm kicking myself that I had not tried her out on a .22 pistol first.   She had shot my Colt Detective special with wadcutters a couple of years ago and it hurt her hands.  

The reason she shot the DS that time was because out of all my centerfire handguns, it seems the most intuitive for her.  She can't rack the slide on any of the autos, and they seem like they overwhelm her in function.  She actually hit the target center mass at 3 yards with the DS but was done shooting after 5 rounds or so.  And it did actually leave a little mark on her shooting hand from recoil.  I have no clue how wadcutters in 24 ounce revolver did that, but it did.  So she was not excited about the pain.

So,  the next time I take her to the range I'll have her shoot my Colt Huntsman.  But I still think a revolver is a better deal for her.  More intuitive.  So I've been thinking I might want to pick up a rimfire revolver.

If you had to decide between getting a .22 mag revolver or just a .22 lr revolver in this situation, which way would you go.  I do have a stash of .22 lr.  Not tons but enough that I'm OK.  But then there is the option of going up to a .22 mag and using some hornady critical defense, and maybe load some FMJ in the cylinder with it.  I don't know.  I know it's not optimal.  But she doesn't have ANYTHING right now.  

Or do you stay with a .22 until she learns to shoot better and then move her up to a more potent caliber?   I suppose I could try some rubber grips on the DS and see if that helps.  But I don't know if you can get any lighter loading than wadcutters.  And to be honest, I'm not sure what it is but that DS has more felt recoil than my 442.  But I have Hogue Tamer grips on my 442.  The other issue is that the DS is out of time and I need to get it fixed.  So do I take the money I'd spend on that and get a different rimfire revolver for now?  

I feel like I should do something to get the ball moving for her, but I'm stymied.  I still don't think she'd shoot a lot, but something is better than nothing and there are some other gals at church that want to shoot too.  And I think she likes the aspect of wanting to be part of what some of the other lady's are doing.  Plus there is just so much crap going on in the world I think my wife is thinking about it more.  

I suppose I could have her try the 442 with wadcutters and see if it's any better experience for her.   But I really think she needs to just shoot a .22 of some sort the next time to get her more acclimated.  


What you all think?  

I bought my wife a Smith and Wesson 18.  She loves it.  I let her shoot all of my pistols except the Smith 29's.  She ended up choosing a HK VP9 as her pistol.

Don't be that guy and buy your wife a snubby revolver.  If she likes wheelguns, let her try a 4 inch medium frame revolver.  Snubbies are not for beginners or those who are recoil sensitive.


Stick with a .22LR revolver until she is comfortable and proficient with it.  Then let her work her way up to a bigger pistol.

Yeah, that's why I said a 3" would be good.  But I can see the point in getting a 4" too.  Having said that, I think at close range she'll be able to shoot a snubby and if it's in a rimfire caliber, I don't think recoil would be an issue.  But definitely a longer sight radius would be a good thing.  I guess I'm think if she wanted to carry it someday a shorter barrel would be better.  Unless she just puts it in her purse.

Agree smith model 18 (k frame four inch) or model 34/63 ( smaller j frame blued or stainless ) the newer 63's I think are 8 shot ( 34's been discontinued for some time) and let her get used to 22's - accurate and confident with a 22 beats scared and ineffective with a larger caliber.
My wife is not much for recoil either and likes my 22 conversion unit on a 1911.

How about a J-Fame 3" model 63

I have introduced several ladies to shooting, and let them shoot a variety of handguns. In 22s I had a Smith model 63 and a Ruger Single Six. Surprisingly they liked the Ruger better almost every time. But the real winner was always the same gun, a Smith & Wesson model 622. It's lightweight, easy to rack the slide, trigger is nice, and accurate.

I have also noted the counter-intuitive situation of greater perceived recoil with the Colt D-frames than with J-frame Smiths.

Get her a .22LR revolver. Make sure she gets to pick it out. Worry about moving up to more power later.

Not contradicting my advice to get her a .22LR, IME, perceived recoil at the low end has more to do with bullet weight than velocity. Load some 90 gr. bullets at 600 fps and you're at mousefart levels.

And get that DS fixed.

Got my wife a Ruger LCR in 22Magnum.

My wife didn't know much about guns.  We went in this order:

- 22lr scoped bolt action rifle.  Taught her she could hit what she was aiming at and how to safely handle a firearm.
- 22lr revolver (S&W 63 and 18).  Thought she would love those.. it was more 'meh'.
- 22lr target semi (S&W 41).  She loved shooting that though it didn't fit her small hands well.
- 9mm (Browning HP).  Just OK.
- 9mm (full size SIG).  Better. Still just OK.
- 12 gauge (18" barrel Remington 870, bird shot to full 00).  Go figure.  Her favorite gun.  She went through all the ammo I brought.

I like starting people out on a 22lr bolt action.  Learn the basics.  Then to a 22lr revolver to get used to a handgun.  After that, you just don't know what they're going to pick.

Hardshell:  I really wish ruger would've kept making the PC9/40.  I always wanted one.  But the only thing about this with her is that I've tried to show her how to shoulder a rifle and it just always seems very awkward.  Very little upper body strength.  She's not completely frail but....  just timid and such.  She was never shown as a youth how to handle a gun and I've just not figured out how to do it that well.  But as I said, she seemed OK with the 10/22, but she was sitting at a bench with the front on a rest.  No offhand.  I suppose I could graduate to offhand with the 10/22 and see how she does.  I just don't want to rely on a .22lr autoloader.   The 10/22 is pretty reliable but the chances of a FTF and having to cycle the action is too high.  

Spook410:  That was smart how did the progression and I'd be shocked if my wife settled on a shotgun.  LOL.  But I suppose anything is possible.  The one issue I have is I don't have a ton of guns for her to be able to try every one.  Our local indoor range and lgs has some stuff to try.   But that is part of the problem.  I belong to an outdoor range and it's a much more pleasant experience for her to shoot outside.  Way less noise.  

I'm feeling the consensus being stick with something in .22 lr and maybe skip the .22 mag idea?????


On another note, I keep forgetting about my son.  He seems to run a .22 handgun just fine and I'll probably be needing some kind of centerfire pistol that works for him too.  All of mine are big.  Besides the 442 and DS.  Although maybe he'd like one of those.  And then there's my daughter.  She says she just likes shooting the 10/22.   She started out with a single shot .22.   My son had shot a .22 pistol before we ever had the single shot .22.  Anyways...  I'm digressing.  

I guess if I have her try the Colt Huntsman (back to my wife) and she likes it, I might try to find her a pistol she can rack the slide on.  That just almost seems like an impossibility.  I do wonder about that new 1911-380 Browning is making.  But I keep forgetting that revolvers seem more intuitive for her.  And they are in my opinion, simpler to use.  At least before you have to reload.  

Good suggestions guys.  Keep em coming if anyone feels led to.  

I almost missed this post.  Does she like it?  Do you like it?  Did you buy those Hornady Critical Defense for it?

I'd personally skip the .22 mag. They are VERY loud especially out of revolvers. Perceived recoil can be pretty bad.

I have about eight full sized rimfire revolvers and they are all in .22 l.r. The only .22 Magnum conversion I had is long sold to someone who has not my expecttions on accuracy.

I recommend a S&W rimfire revolver, preferably the lighter four inch model 18.

I know this is a revolver section, but the discussion has appeared to morph a little... when working with older somewhat frail ladies, many had a problem unloading a charged autoloader, and additionally pulling a double action revolver trigger... one suggestion was the use of the Beretta tip up pistols, working their way to the .380 M86...easy to drop and insert the magazine and tip up the barrel to unload or load, and the double action trigger was followed by single action shots...if your wife intends to carry her pistol, you might have her try a Beretta 21A in .22lr... upper right in picture

Your wife's hand getting beat up sounds familiar. My hand got beat up by guns too. It was poor form on my part. I wasn't gripping well enough and I was limp wristing to boot. I was also leaning away from the gun to get away from the bang. My husband had to work on me years to fix me. Classes were actually faster, since I listened better. Now I'm ok.

I had the same problem with shotguns. Even the low recoil stuff bothered me. Then my instructor at a class borrowed a shotgun and insisted I allow him to fix me. 12 gauge, no problem.

I think you're on the right track with starting with the lowest recoil, but a lot of it isn't going to be about the gun. It's going to be about her technique. Gripping that thing so it doesn't bounce around, racking the slide with a push from both hands closer in to the body, not letting a rifle stock bounce around on her as she's shooting.

IME, instructors will be faster and less frustrating for both of you. I'm not saying you can't do the job, I'm just saying she'll have more fun showing off new skills to you than either of you will trying to beat them into her head.

.22LR 4" revolver or semi until she wants to try something else. At that point she could easily shoot a 4" K or L frame with 38 Special range loads.

Mine went from a Buckmark to her own Kahr 9mm. She got her grip and stance right early on and LEARNED to rack the slide.

The only reason she cannot operate a semi is she will not learn or you are teaching her bad technique. Barring a physical issue (like arthritis) there is no reason she cannot operate any semi.

Well I'm sure if I was you I wouldn't have this problem....

That statement always pisses me off.  I went on corneredcat.com, and tried to show her the techniques suggested in there....  I tried a couple of other websites and techniques and something that seems very elementary and simple to me just has not translated to her.   It's not from a lack of trying but I find this claim kind of funny because I'm not the only one I've ever heard had this issue with a female in their life.  Some just don't know HOW to use the strength they have because they never had to or are too timid or I don't know why.   Maybe not enough motivation???  I don't know.  But for whatever reason it's not something that has happened in the times I've tried to show her.  

Now, another instructor might be the ticket.  I hear that helps a lot.  I might have to look into that for her.  We are all so busy I have no clue when it might happen but maybe an opportunity will arise.  There are many times our spouse might say something to us, or we say something to them that we might not fully comprehend or understand or agree with until we hear it from somewhere else.  I get that.

This or a Model 617.

Watch the used rack for a High Standard , They are pretty solid guns. I have a model 18 , they have ran up a good bit in price lately

Do you mean a high standard auto?  Or did they make revolvers?  I don't need a .22 pistol.  I have two.  And both are nice.  The Ruger Mk1 might be a bit heavy for her.  That thing weighs as much as a 1911 I think.

Don't feel bad. Typically husbands cannot teach their wives how to shoot.

Choices of 22LR revolvers that you can actually find are rather limited. Usually you'll see these at most gun shows and some gun shops:
Ruger SP101, Bearcat, Single six (can get with 22Mag cylinder)
S&W 617, 17, 18

Now and then you'll see some of the older less aesthetically pleasing revolvers like Hi Standard, H&R and other "off brands" most of which shoot and function just fine.

Started my wife with 22's and then worked her up to 44 and 45's, although she really like good old 38 Special for her own guns. Another suggestion for a defensive "long gun" may be a PS90. I bought one, SBR'd it and my wife loves the thing so it sits by the bed.

What does .22 Mag get you above .22 LR out of a short barrel?

 

Noise, flash, and expense.  Maybe a few dozen FPS and a foot-pound or too.


With some revolvers, the trade off gets you another two rounds in the wheel.


You can't shoot .22 lr in most .22 mag wheel guns.


.22 Mag is a good long gun round but until you are getting to PMR-30 length barrels it doesn't get you much in a handgun.

Easy now... I have no desire to insult your ability to teach anyone anything nor do I claim I can teach her anything you can't. Just saying this issue can be overcome 99 times out of 100.

I guess I didn't quite see the first part about "she will not learn".    LOL.  Takes the heat off of me.  All I know is I've tried.  Different times and in different ways.  

Thank you for not responding as bad as I did.  I appreciate it.  

I'm a big fan of starting beginners with air guns and then .22's or just .22's.  Those who are intimidated by guns from the start should always be started out slowly and "lessons" kept fun and pressure free.  A good single action .22LR/.22WMR revolver would be a fantastic choice, plus they make excellent choices as a beginner's "first gun" that they will cherish their entire lives..  Something easy to load/unload and is operated in a nice slow environment conducive to new shooters.  

I HIGHLY recommend the Ruger Single Six .22/.22WMR Convertible revolvers.  Once the shooter is comfortable shooting the .22LR and handling/shooting the gun you can switch to the .22 magnum cylinder and get them comfortable with the bigger blast and louder shots with a bit more recoil but still very comfortable.  After that you can move up slowly at the new shooters comfort level.  If you start light and slow, don't pressure them and let them advance at their own pace you will have a new shooting buddy but if you push them and try to get them to "perform" at the level you think they should instead of what they think they should, you may turn them off of guns altogether.  It happens alot by guys who try to teach women and kids like they would teach their buddies and it's turned a lot of folks into anti gunners.



This isn't my first gun by any means but it's a PERFECT gun to start youngsters and women out on, especially if they are a little intimidated already.  This one is a dealer exclusive so it may be difficult to find one exactly like iit but there a several different variations of the gun to choose from.  Fantastic guns and a great "my first handgun" choice.

My wife's been asking about shooting.  A few gals she knows have posted on FB when they went shooting and it's piqued her interest.  I really should get a .22 revolver.  But then the issue with DA's is the trigger pulls are usually heavy in .22, from what I understand.  I like the idea of the single action for beginners...  I'm not sure I'd like it for SD though.   Although here again it would beat a sharp stick.  I think.

Spend the money and buy a pre lock Smith 18.

If she has female friends that shoot why not try to get in touch with one or two of them and go out as a group? Maybe they have something she can try shooting or can help her out by speaking the same language... woman talk.

I bought my Daughter a Ruger Semi for Christmas last year, never have looked back, she loves it, every trip to the range she will run a magazine through a bigger gun like a Glock 17 or 21.

Forget the small compact revolvers for a inexperienced shooter , they can all be a challenge to shoot .

Mid to full sized revolver will have a full sized grip , better sights and better sight radius along with lower felt recoil .

The  guns  that are a overall crowd pleaser in my pistol classes is the S&W 686  and S&W 617. Most everyone shoots them well and grips are available for big meaty hands on down to some fairly small women sized hands . Factory Houge type will reasonably all but the extremes.

Big almost chunky gun makes 38 target loads a real pussycat as far as recoil . most anyone who can handle most 22s can handle the 38 target in the 686

Often overlooked is the fact many starting shooters ( women in particular) are very sensitive to muzzle blast (even from target loads or rimfire ) . Outdoor ranges are a bit better than inside and good hearing protection a must. Ear muffs over foam plugs are good but electronic muffs over foam plugs allow the starting shooter to hear range commands and direction.

Start with big paper targets in close so the shooter can tell where most every shot is going

Yup.  My wife had a Ruger super single six by the bedside for several years.  I couldn't get her to move up to a bigger caliber, but peer pressure from a tiny female cop got her to change.  Now, the wife has her own Glock 17.

Amen.  My first handgun was a Ruger Mark II Target.  I would blast through mags without really learning to shoot.  I sold it and bought the Super Single Six.  It is slow to reload, so you tend to take more time and make your shots count.

I'd be really careful about that. A lot of women get away with being very unsafe with guns. I would not send her out with them without supervision. Like I said before, first, I would get her formal, professional training. Right now, she doesn't have the background or confidence to get out if the situation isn't good.

Yeah, the last one was her hairstylist who's husband took her shooting.  It's not like my wife knows women who are all into guns.  We don't really know anybody like that.  We know a lot of guys but I can't think of one gun girl that I know well.  I do know a few, just not real well.  I suppose I could hit them up to teach my wife.....  

NHSport, I agree with the loud noise thing.  Indoors I think is a bad idea for beginners and young ones.  It's just freaking loud.  The first time I ever took my wife a friend came along and he's kind of a wild man.  He was rapid firing his .44 mag and we were in the lane next to the wall.  Needless to say she did not want to experience that ever again.  Heck I didn't.  I belong to an outdoor range and it's so much more pleasant on the ears.

 But the thing you mentioned about K frames is not working.  I have a 6" model 19 that does feel like a .22.  But I think I said this earlier, she struggled with pulling the trigger the other day.  Even though the trigger is lighter than my 442, it was like too big for her to get a good grip on and at first she couldn't even pull the trigger.  She did the 442 just fine though, and I think it's just because the size was better.  So I think I need something that size or similar.  

My wife's second gun was/is a 422.  



A couple years ago I was lucky to find a 2206.

I have several in the 422/622 series. The ladies always like them.

A Colt Huntsman/Woodsman is a natural pointing gun, and I have yet to find a neophyte that does not instantly take to shooting one.
4" K-22s are rarely a bad choice either, but if you already have a Huntsman, let her run a brick through that.

Make it fun, with reactive targets, like steel plates and she will likely become enthused with it.

Pre model 18 from the 1950s:



Colt Huntsman from same era:

Those are beautiful!!!


As fate would have it, we were at the range today with the Colt Huntsman and the kids were runnin it.  I'm so proud of my Daughter.  I give them very little instruction and they seem to know how to shoot.  Although I probably need to give them more instruction.  I'm hitting the 4 rules of gun safety harder with them then actually teaching them to shoot super well.  I'm not sure they really need my help that much.  

But yeah, I gotta get my wife on that gun and see if how she likes it.  I wouldn't necessarily make a great defense gun though.  It's kind of finnicky.  My kids were having ftfeed's at first when they were shooting from the bench at 25 meters.  It seemed like it might be limpwristing because I'd grab the gun from them and it would run for me.  But it was like the mag wouldn't push the round up or something.  But when they were standing they didn't have any problems.  My daughter had 1 ftf from the ammo not firing.  But that's .22's for you.  Feeding was fine while they were standing.

Now I've got a Ruger Mk1 that has very little problem with any ammo.  And it's accurate.  It's just that it's kind of heavy for the girls.  My son shoots that one though.



Most of the rounds in the yellow were from she was shooting at 30 some yards rested.  And the Black was most of 1 magazine.  She's as good as me.  LOL.  



Now my Son wants to run it like he's playing a video game and shoots a lot faster.......





Now check this out, that was my Great Grandpa's gun.  So they were shooting their Great Great Grandpa's gun today.  I wish he could see us.  Maybe he can.  

I'll put in another plug for a J frame Model 63 or K frame 18.

As long as my wife doesn't pull the trigger and struggle with it.....  Like I said she was good with the 442, but said it's a little heavy.  Which it is.  But she couldn't do the 19, which was lighter.  All because of the size.   And they say the .22's have a heavier trigger.  So.....  If it's a heavy triggered K frame, it's not going to work.

Maybe see if you can find one of those Performance Center 642's. Not sure if they make one in a 442 or not. But I A/B'd one with a new no lock 642 and the trigger was MUCH better (lighter, smoother, everything) on the PC as you would imagine. The PC has the wood grips, so you might have to change out the grips for her.

The PC also did have the lock. If the PC version had no lock it'd be sitting here with me right now, I still may pick it up if they run a sale and it's still there. It's priced at $489 as it sits right now.

She can pull the trigger fine on my 442, despite it being heavy.  I'm talking about if I get her a .22, everyone says how heavy the triggers are on them.  I don't have a .22 revolver presently, so......  I don't know.  I shot my friends model 63 and it was just fine, but she didn't shoot that one.

Yeah, the K frame .22 LR Smiths are known for having a better trigger pull than the J frames, but I think the trigger on my 63 no dash is pretty good. I've heard not so good things about the LCR .22 trigger. Supposedly much much heavier than the centerfire versions. Personally I've never tried one out. Maybe a nice model 18 variant would be the way to go.

I was just throwing out an option if she likes the 442 but with a better lighter trigger than the standard version and is not opposed to moving up to a much better caliber for self defense if that is the direction you're headed.

I gotta get her started on a .22 first.  I can't remember if it was this thread or not, but I showed pics where wadcutters left a mark on her hand and she didn't like the recoil.  But that was in my DS with wood grips.  It would probably be better with the 442, but I really just need to get her started on .22 shooting and then move up from there.  Maybe a bigger gun with some wadcutters.  The Colt DS is no lightweight though.....  it weighs like 23 ounces.

The super short barrel is going to change the geometry of the recoil as with any gun, regardless of weight. A longer barrel with the weight up front will not rotate upwards so harshly given the extra leverage you have. And obviously not having just a thin trim of wood and steel as a buffer will make a difference, they sure look pretty but while not such a looker a set of Hogue's etc. will help take the edge off. Also, has she shot a 4-6" K frame with .38SPL?

Once again, I think a K22 would be a great option for her.

No, she hasn't shot a 4-6" K frame.  The other day I put my 6" Model 19 in her hands, with hogue grips on it, and she was having a hard time pulling the trigger.  Plus it felt heavy to her.  It is heavy.  It's like 40 ounces.  I even get kind of fatigued one handed if holding it out there too long.  It's kind of front heavy.  But two handed it feels great.  

Yeah, K22 or 63 would be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Well, beat feet and track one down. Not easy to find, but they do show up from time to time. I've got one of each. Still need to track down a 34. I found a nickel 34 snubbie and foolishly didn't buy it, went back to pick it up and it was gone.