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Page Handguns » H&K
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Posted: 1/4/2008 10:35:09 AM EST
Im looking at trading in my G22 for a HK USP compact of some caliber. ive held the .40 and 45 and both fit really well. Is the 9mm similar to the .40? Also i keep hearing from everyone out here that if your gonna ccw go with a 9mm because of cost and you get more rounds. Im also ditching the glock for the hk for the safety feature, but also the reliability if the same as glock from what ime told. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
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Posted: 1/4/2008 11:26:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By enasty7:

Also i keep hearing from everyone out here that if your gonna ccw go with a 9mm because of cost and you get more rounds.



I don't know who told you that, but it sure wasn't a USP .45 owner.................

Yes, one can get a few more rds with a 9mm over a .45acp. Is it worth it? *I* don't think so. Only two caliber of guns *I* CCW with & those are .45acp & .357mag.

As for ammo, if one buys smartly, one can get pretty good deals on ammo (relatively speaking). I buy mine from GA Arms, an arfcom sponsor.

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Posted: 1/4/2008 12:53:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By enasty7:
Im looking at trading in my G22 for a HK USP compact of some caliber. ive held the .40 and 45 and both fit really well. Is the 9mm similar to the .40? Also i keep hearing from everyone out here that if your gonna ccw go with a 9mm because of cost and you get more rounds. Im also ditching the glock for the hk for the safety feature, but also the reliability if the same as glock from what ime told. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


The .40 and 9mm are the same size.

If you weren't looking for the manual safety, I'd say take a look at the P2000 or the new P30. Since you want the safety, a USPc is likely the way to go. However, if you go with a .45 you should also check out the new HK45.

I think a large number of people go with 9mm, but it's certainly not the only choice.

9mm is cheaper, which can equate to more practice, which can equate to more skill. The key word being "can." Get some instruction and training and practice and you can become proficient at any caliber. 9mm is just likely the caliber that makes becoming proficient cheaper and perhaps even easier, since it has less recoil. Less recoil can make reacquiring your sights easier for faster shooting while still remaining on target.

9mm also holds more rounds, so you have more shots (without a reload) to defend yourself with if need be. It's often said that most altercations only require 2-3 shots, so you won't need those extra rounds. However, and don't quote me on this, I think new figures have come out suggesting that more rounds are often needed and the number of attackers is often greater than 1 person. I read that here on AR15, but did not see the actual study or stats. Not to mention that during a self defense situation you're not going to be the best shot and even experts miss under stress.

The biggest reason people seem to go with larger calibers is for the mythical "knock down power." For a bullet to generally be considered effective for self defense it has to have a certain level of penetration and successful expansion. The larger calibers like .40 and .45 will likely penetrate and expand more than a 9mm. However, with modern hollow point bullets, even 9mm meets the recommended levels of penetration and expansion and studies show 9mm to be a consistently effective "takedown" caliber. Shoot someone in the right place with 9 or 45 and they're going down. The larger calibers' advantages come in to play more when the attacker is fat or when shooting through something, such as auto glass.

For me, I go with 9mm. It's cheaper, I shoot more, and it has less recoil that I feel would make my shots more likely to stay on target under stress. Training can help you with any caliber though. I also like the higher capacity in case I face multiple attackers. I don't much like .40 S&W though. To me it has too much recoil, but not much difference than a .45 in penetration and expansion (if any). There are .40 fans though, so perhaps they can enlighten you.

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Posted: 1/4/2008 4:28:55 PM EST
good info thanks the the replies. i have to wait 90 days here since i just moved to this state before i can apply for my ccw, so i have some time to weigh my options. but my carry gu is def gonna be some for of a H&K
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Posted: 1/4/2008 11:27:32 PM EST
for CCW, i'd opt for the HK compacts or the HK P2000 (SK if you need it REAL small or as a BUG)

handling wise, i prefer .45acp and the 9mm; for carry in the HK, i'd probably opt for the 9mm--very smooth shooting
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Posted: 1/5/2008 12:15:51 PM EST
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Posted: 1/5/2008 12:18:15 PM EST
USP Compact 9mm with 15 round P30 mags, HK P7 or Glock 19
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Posted: 1/5/2008 12:44:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By MouseBoy:
USP Compact 9mm with 15 round P30 mags, HK P7 or Glock 19


Throw USP .45C into that list if you prefer a larger caliber and its a damn near perfect list of CCW options
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Posted: 1/5/2008 12:51:07 PM EST
I have a USPC 40. I like it, Very accurate it's never had a malfunction in thousands of rounds. I have several thousand rounds of 40 for it and my P229. I have shot a USPC 9, USPC 45 and pretty much every type of HK Pistol that came into the shop/Range where I worked. Sometimes the DA trigger pull is a little heavy..
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Posted: 1/5/2008 1:40:28 PM EST


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Posted: 1/5/2008 3:27:01 PM EST
If you're willing to spend the money, the P7M8 can't be beat.
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Posted: 1/5/2008 8:51:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By MouseBoy:
USP Compact 9mm with 15 round P30 mags, HK P7 or Glock 19


P30 mags in a USPc 9, eh?

Good to know.
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Posted: 1/5/2008 9:01:08 PM EST
For CCW I'd personnaly go with either the P7 or the P2000
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Posted: 1/5/2008 9:10:51 PM EST
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:34:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2008 7:36:48 AM EST by SemperShadow]
I carry a 9mm as a sidearm in the Marines, and I would NEVER carry one if it was my choice about the matter.

My USP Compact is chambered in 40 S&W. In all honestly, when I first shot it, I hated it. No bullshit. HATED it. However, after about 800 rounds it broke in nicely and now is my second favorite handgun (behind my 1911....of course). 13 rounds of 40 S&W Hydras will really ruin your day, and I have concealed it in every temperature with a simple IWB holster. It's a great carry gun. Right now I have around 2K rounds through it, so I still have a long way to go.

I considered the .45, my personal favorite pistol caliber, but it dawned on me as this. By simple muscle memory...I am always going to shoot twice, doesn't matter if it's a controlled pair or a hammered pair...that pistol's barkin twice at you. So, with the .45, I could get 4 people (on a perfect day) before my mag change. With the .40, I can get 6. I am preety sure two 40's will kill you just as dead as the two .45s. So I took the .40

Hope this helps.
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:42:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2008 7:42:51 AM EST by sharps54]
Another vote for the .40 USPc, I love mine. I have fairly small hands and with the flat base plates (no finger extension) it conceals very well in a IWB holster under an untucked shirt.

editted to add I can get my whole hand on the grip without the thumb extensions so they are just extra bulk in my case, YMMV.
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:52:58 AM EST
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Posted: 1/6/2008 12:28:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2008 5:19:02 PM EST by Curare]
P7M8

For a CCW, I'm not a fan of injection molded, fat, top-heavy pistols with something-for-everyone trigger groups. Single stack is the only way to fly for a CCW auto.

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Posted: 1/6/2008 1:58:22 PM EST
+1 for the compact 40. Carried one for a few years and just now trying out my P2000sk in 40. It hides so much better even though the difference in size is small. If I get the stainless compact 40, I'll make the switch back in a heartbeat.
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Posted: 1/7/2008 11:37:20 AM EST
I carry the USP C 9 MM and it's just fine.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:29:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2008 5:34:57 AM EST by Blackwind]

Originally Posted By SemperShadow:
I carry a 9mm as a sidearm in the Marines, and I would NEVER carry one if it was my choice about the matter.

My USP Compact is chambered in 40 S&W. In all honestly, when I first shot it, I hated it. No bullshit. HATED it. However, after about 800 rounds it broke in nicely and now is my second favorite handgun (behind my 1911....of course). 13 rounds of 40 S&W Hydras will really ruin your day, and I have concealed it in every temperature with a simple IWB holster. It's a great carry gun. Right now I have around 2K rounds through it, so I still have a long way to go.

I considered the .45, my personal favorite pistol caliber, but it dawned on me as this. By simple muscle memory...I am always going to shoot twice, doesn't matter if it's a controlled pair or a hammered pair...that pistol's barkin twice at you. So, with the .45, I could get 4 people (on a perfect day) before my mag change. With the .40, I can get 6. I am preety sure two 40's will kill you just as dead as the two .45s. So I took the .40

Hope this helps.


Pffft. World of difference between what you are carrying both in weapon and ammo then what you would be carrying out here in the civilian world. I carry a 9mm more then comfortably knowing the capabilities of ammo out here when it comes to 9mm. With current ballistics capabilities in 9mm...there is not a lot of difference between a 9mm and .45.

A P7M8 would be an excellent choice if you have the scratch for it. A P30 is a good choice as well.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:49:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2008 5:56:40 AM EST by Boru]
HK USP has a higher bore axis than Glocks, most everything does. So this may be something you may notice and want to consider. I`m not a fan of .40. I have a USP/C in .45 and wouldn`t mind having one in 9mm at all. All my Glocks are 9mm, plenty good performance out of the modern 9mm ammo today, plus very mild recoil and more capacity ofcourse. So .45 or 9mm would be my choices.

What variant are you going after? I forget which one mine is but it`s the one with cocked & locked capability and I carry it that way. If it wasn`t I wouldnt like it very much. The difference between the USP dbl action to single action is huge for me.

I`m wanting a HK45 compact, seems to have some slight but decent refinements to the USP.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:53:15 AM EST
My duty weapon is a USP compact .40 with the LEM trigger. I like it a lot, but it's pretty bulky and heavy for concealed carry. When I'm home I carry a Kahr P9.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 7:04:51 AM EST
im down to either getting a 9mm or the .45, but i also would like it to be double action first shot and then single from there out. Thanks for all the input
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Posted: 1/8/2008 7:35:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By enasty7:
im down to either getting a 9mm or the .45, but i also would like it to be double action first shot and then single from there out. Thanks for all the input


Why?Why DA first shot?
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Posted: 1/8/2008 10:15:12 AM EST
is there something different cause i cant seem to find any info from HK about it on there website
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Posted: 1/8/2008 1:21:03 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By enasty7:
is there something different cause i cant seem to find any info from HK about it on there website


About what?
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Posted: 1/8/2008 1:23:33 PM EST
the double action and single, the gun at my local GS said that the first shot is double action the following ones are single, what variations does HK offer
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Posted: 1/8/2008 1:50:02 PM EST
The first shot is DA if you decock the hammer, which is recommended for CC.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 3:30:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By enasty7:
is there something different cause i cant seem to find any info from HK about it on there website


Dude, if you don't know the difference between "there" and "their", you shouldn't own anything dangerous.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 4:23:33 PM EST
Dude, if you don't have anything constructive to say and be helpful like everyone else so far, why talk? Are you the spell check police or something. Give it a break. We're on a forum trying to get information on stuff that intrests us, why do you have to screw with people. Everyone else knew what i meant.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 4:41:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By SoFloTRD:
The first shot is DA if you decock the hammer, which is recommended for CC.


I'd have to disagree.

One of the nice options about the usp is the ability to carry cocked and locked, just like a 1911.
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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:04:25 PM EST
COCKED and LOCKED is recommended from the factory. I dont recall the manual ever saying to decock for concealed carry. Obviously there are some people here who are adept in giving chair commando ethics/tactics. The option is there. cocked and locked or hammer down with safety on or off. Your choice.

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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:13:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2008 5:14:28 PM EST by adfinder23]
Well, if you don't specifically want a manual safety anymore then you should look at HK's entire lineup. The USPs, P2000's, P30, HK45, and P7.

If you want a safety, look at USPs and the HK45.

If you want DA/SA look at P2000, P30, HK45 and the USPs.

P2000, P30, and HK45 main differences over the USPs are the ergonomics and such things as picatinny rails.

If you're looking for the weights of the DA and SA pulls I don't remember what they are, but someone else might.

While a DA to SA pull is considered safer for concealed carry (if you don't have a safety that is), it does mean you have to learn two different triggers AND the transition between them. The DA is quite heavy and the SA is quite light.

Firearms with safeties seem to be most often carried cocked and locked. Which means the hammer is back and the safety is on. So although the pistol may have the capability of being a DA/SA it is locked to be SA only to avoid the difficulty in transitioning from DA to SA.

You can also get HK pistols in the LEM trigger. Which is lighter than DA, but heavier than SA, and the same pull every shot. It's a good option if you don't want a safety lever, but also don't want to transition from DA to SA. It's available on the USP, p2000, and I'd imagine for the P30 and HK45 as well, but don't quote me on that.

I don't like transitioning between DA and SA, so for carrying an HK I'd go with a safety (cocked and locked) or with the LEM trigger. However, if I was going LEM I'd look at more than HK as well to find my best fit. Such as SigSauer pistols with the DAK trigger, Springfield Armory's XD pistols, Smith & Wesson's M&P lineup, Walther or S&W P99, and Glock.

You can also switch up how you use or carry many HK's. If it's got a safety you can carry cocked and locked (essentially being SA only), or you can decock and carry DA/SA, or you can switch out to the LEM trigger. USP for instance has 9 variants, plus a 10th in the ability to switch out to a LEM.

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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:29:02 PM EST
So far i have handled all the other brands and to me to HK USP fit the best in my hand, and the weight wasnt terribly heavy either, i do like the manual safety feature on the HK also. I just havent decided on a caliber yet.
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Posted: 1/9/2008 12:32:46 AM EST
I concealed a .45 USP compact for a while. Rather uncomfortable weapon to carry around, especially during the hotter months. Rigid and would dig in the body, a pain in the ribs when driving too. The most comfortable .45 I've every carried concealed was a dehorned commander size 1911. With that said majority of the time I carry a Glock 26, small, light weight, and most of all comfortable.
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Posted: 1/9/2008 12:47:29 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Esq1118:
COCKED and LOCKED is recommended from the factory. I dont recall the manual ever saying to decock for concealed carry. Obviously there are some people here who are adept in giving chair commando ethics/tactics. The option is there. cocked and locked or hammer down with safety on or off. Your choice.

h
True it is more of personal preference and safety, then again I never stated it was in the manual.
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Posted: 1/11/2008 8:06:56 PM EST
I have a P2000 with the LEM trigger in 357 Sig.
I like it very much.

Everytime I get something good someone else already used it.
Even my wife has been married before.

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