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Posted: 8/12/2008 11:22:02 AM EDT
I just purchased a Springfield 1911 MC Operator and was wondering which ammo would be the best man-stopper. My cousin recommends Black Talon. I just wanted to hear some other opinions.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 11:32:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
I just purchased a Springfield 1911 MC Operator and was wondering which ammo would be the best man-stopper. My cousin recommends Black Talon. I just wanted to hear some other opinions.


Its all about shot placement and what feeds relaibly in your firearm, Black talons are old generation, if you want to go that route then get some Ranger T's series ( good luck in finding some right now)
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 11:32:58 AM EDT
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 12:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torrejon224:
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.


Where did you hear that?
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 12:37:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreemptiveStrike:

Originally Posted By torrejon224:
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.


Where did you hear that?


Thats what I was wondering
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 1:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
I just purchased a Springfield 1911 MC Operator and was wondering which ammo would be the best man-stopper. My cousin recommends Black Talon. I just wanted to hear some other opinions.

Please read THIS tacked thread for recommended self-defense ammunition.

I'm currently using Taurus Hex [DPX] 185gr all-copper in my top drawer .45



Link Posted: 8/12/2008 1:33:12 PM EDT
230 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point. The "flying ashtray" of the 21st century.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 2:20:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:
230 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point. The "flying ashtray" of the 21st century.


+ 1 (I think.)

I don't get the "flying ashtray"
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 2:52:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torrejon224:
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.


False, and you can get them at ammunitiontogo.com also.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 7:35:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Retic:

Originally Posted By NAM:
230 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point. The "flying ashtray" of the 21st century.


+ 1 (I think.)

I don't get the "flying ashtray"


Speer used to make a 200 grain load that was nicknamed the "Flying Ashcan" or "Flying Ashtray" The HP was enormous. It was popular because it expanded really well. It was also notorious for feeding issues in autos. It was designed for .45 Colt and had a cannelure.

The Gold Dot is an all around better round.
Link Posted: 8/12/2008 9:12:21 PM EDT
The Magsafe 96gr+P is the most destructive of all 45 ACP rounds. It killed the goats the fastest.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 12:25:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NVGdude:

Originally Posted By Retic:

Originally Posted By NAM:
230 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point. The "flying ashtray" of the 21st century.


+ 1 (I think.)

I don't get the "flying ashtray"


Speer used to make a 200 grain load that was nicknamed the "Flying Ashcan" or "Flying Ashtray" The HP was enormous. It was popular because it expanded really well. It was also notorious for feeding issues in autos. It was designed for .45 Colt and had a cannelure.

The Gold Dot is an all around better round.



Thanks for the info! Someone told me that the 'Flying Ashtray' was the HydraShock, which has the post in the middle, resembling a fat cigar stub.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:33:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 918v:
The Magsafe 96gr+P is the most destructive of all 45 ACP rounds. It killed the goats the fastest.

Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:49:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By torrejon224:
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.


The HSTs rock. And with the "branches" that stretch out and cut there'll be a lot of surface area to bleed.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:20:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
Thanks for the info! Someone told me that the 'Flying Ashtray' was the HydraShock, which has the post in the middle, resembling a fat cigar stub.


Not sure where they got that from. NVDude was right...the flying ashtray was around before hydrashock.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 9:49:30 AM EDT
What do you guys think about Black Talon?
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:04:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
What do you guys think about Black Talon?


Ammo that's behind on technology, no longer made, and possibly stored incorrectly.

Oh, and don't forget overhyped. I mean, it's not bad, but it would not be my first choice for carry ammo.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:20:32 AM EDT
My normal carry is 200gr hornady TAP +P.. I recently purchased 2 boxes of winchester sxz ammo, and I like it so far, may switch to it.. Its affordable, and seems to shoot great, I need to shoot some jugs of water to test expansion before deciding..


Good luck finding black talons.. If you must have that ammo, the ranger SXT is as close as you can get.. The SXZ has the black coating, but not the same hollowpoint..
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:25:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
What do you guys think about Black Talon?

Good stuff! Last made in 1993...

I have some .45 ACP Black Talon for sale - $60 per 20rd. box [PM me]

OR


You can order some Ranger T [RA45T] which is much-improved Black Talon for $28 per 50rd. box from online suppliers linked above.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:42:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 10:42:41 AM EDT by rtech]
Try the "Black Rino" bullets from the 90's. They were so bad ass. According to the media, they were so lethal they'd kill just looking at them.

Maybe the "Shred" bullets as depicted in "The Last Boy Scout" with Bruce Willis. Those things shred and are so bad assed, not even available to LE. I think they get issued to the Space Shuttle Door gunners and HyperSEAL program. That's the Navy SEAL/SERE/Green Beret/Delta Force/Ranger/Recon Marine operators. That program is classified above Top Secret and I've said too much....



I use Hydra Shok's off duty and my agency issues Golden Saber for duty.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:52:18 AM EDT

Link Posted: 8/13/2008 10:57:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 5:37:41 PM EDT by MTNmyMag]

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg


You startled me with that. Ammo so devastating meerly seeing it in print can cause alarm.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 12:31:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2008 12:32:20 PM EDT by majnemesis]
What about Hornady or Black Hills ammo? They are supposed to be very high quality right?
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg


You startled me with that. Ammo so devastating meerly seeing it in print can cause alarm.


That's the idea. You flash that picture and an attacker and he runs in terror, or dies of laughter
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 6:59:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg



I knew that was coming as soon as I saw the title of the thread.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:33:00 PM EDT
all joking aside. I prefer the 230 Gold dot, or the 230 HST. HST demonstrates extreme expansion, very sharp "petals", and very reliable feeding in my Glock 21. However, it is a relatively new round, while its features are very promising, it is not yet been thoroughly "field tested" by dozens of after action reports. The Gold Dot has been the LE standard for some time, and is a street proven fight stopping round. An FBI acquaintance of mine (forensic accountant... nothing oober tacticool) is issued 180grn gold dots in his G22 . For the most part, you cannot go wrong with any major manufacturers' 230 grain load in .45.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:37:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sd_norske:

Originally Posted By rippersde50:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg



I knew that was coming as soon as I saw the title of the thread.



+2
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 7:43:06 PM EDT
I like the 200 grain +P gold dots some folks say there like a 200 grain 10mm
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 11:23:41 PM EDT
Does anybody know what type of ammo shoots the cleanest?
Link Posted: 8/16/2008 5:42:52 PM EDT
another vote for the new Winchester T-series ammo!
Link Posted: 8/16/2008 6:12:47 PM EDT
RA45T FTW
Link Posted: 8/16/2008 6:16:51 PM EDT
Its a 45 any premium hollow point ammo will do just fine. just be sure to make sure it runs well and problem free in your gun
Link Posted: 8/16/2008 7:43:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2008 10:53:39 AM EDT
yea, im going for the RA45T.
Link Posted: 8/17/2008 1:20:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJSully421:
all joking aside. I prefer the 230 Gold dot, or the 230 HST. HST demonstrates extreme expansion, very sharp "petals", and very reliable feeding in my Glock 21. However, it is a relatively new round, while its features are very promising, it is not yet been thoroughly "field tested" by dozens of after action reports. The Gold Dot has been the LE standard for some time, and is a street proven fight stopping round. An FBI acquaintance of mine (forensic accountant... nothing oober tacticool) is issued 180grn gold dots in his G22 . For the most part, you cannot go wrong with any major manufacturers' 230 grain load in .45.


Really? FBI and he is issued gold dots?

Umm winchester just got a huge contract to supply the FBI with 40 S&W and 9mm in the bonded flavor and all their training rounds, I could be wrong but I would imagine he is issued Winchester bonded, check it out and let us know.
Link Posted: 8/17/2008 1:30:53 PM EDT
ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm



.45ACP

Barnes XPB 185gr HP (45185) loaded by:
Cor-Bon (DPX45160)
Taurus (TCB45ACP185HP)

Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP)

Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1)
Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2)

Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP (23966)


I personally would stick with any of the 230 gr. loads listed above, because most sights on .45 caliber pistols are calibrated for this bullet weight.

The most important things are being able to hit your target where you need to hit them, and being able to hit them quickly and repetitively.

"Stopping Power" - "Where you hit the person and how many times you can hit them." - Dr. Vincent DiMaio.

Link Posted: 8/18/2008 10:03:06 PM EDT
i have 2 .45's ......one 1911 and a smith & wesson perfourmence center .45 auto....and i tried plenty of boxes and what works best for me is.....golden saber,extreme shock,quick shok,winchester silver tips,and hydra shock
Link Posted: 8/19/2008 7:34:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2008 8:44:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By chachie420:
i have 2 .45's ......one 1911 and a smith & wesson perfourmence center .45 auto....and i tried plenty of boxes and what works best for me is.....golden saber,extreme shock,quick shok,winchester silver tips,and hydra shock


"Works best for me" means what?


Yeah no kidding, shot and hit people with every single one of those rounds?
Link Posted: 8/19/2008 9:33:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2008 2:14:16 PM EDT
Wow. I get the name now.
Link Posted: 8/21/2008 1:53:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
yea, im going for the RA45T.


Good choice.

The Federal HST expands to 1" and penetrates 12". However it is +P and so it increases my "splits".

Federal bounded tactical is also +P, it expands to .75" and penetrates 15".

RA45T expands to .75" and penetrates 12", but it isn't +P and so you can probably get faster "splits".

I currently have HST and RA45T. Wouldn't mind having some bonded on hand as well . . .

Link Posted: 8/22/2008 12:16:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By majnemesis:
yea, im going for the RA45T.


Good choice.

The Federal HST expands to 1" and penetrates 12". However it is +P and so it increases my "splits".

Federal bounded tactical is also +P, it expands to .75" and penetrates 15".

RA45T expands to .75" and penetrates 12", but it isn't +P and so you can probably get faster "splits".

I currently have HST and RA45T. Wouldn't mind having some bonded on hand as well . . .



What do you think of Hornady TAP FPD? I havn't seen much info on those.
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 11:38:46 AM EDT
Triton Quik-Shot is an out of production ammo that I think would be a top contender today. The bullet would split, leaving several very nasty wound paths.
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 2:58:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 3:42:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By FLAJD11:
Triton Quik-Shot is an out of production ammo that I think would be a top contender today. The bullet would split, leaving several very nasty wound paths.


No. Quick Shok is garbage because it doesn't penetrate deep enough and each of the fragments makes a minimal permanent cavity.


+1 TOTAL GARBAGE!!!
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 7:33:09 PM EDT
Well,
I have no qualifications on this "most destructive ammo" thread cause I ain't never shot any body, and I'm damned glad that I haven't.
I just wanted to throw a little something out here that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Has anybody ever read a book written by a guy by the name of Chuck Taylor called Combat Handgunning? It was copyrighted in 1982, so it's some old stuff, but ole Chuck seems to know his stuff. He is a staunch supporter of the 1911 Colt .45 ACP round, and he says that the old standard 230 grain hardball (FMJ) stuff is the most dependable stuff to carry in a .45 handgun for self-defense purposes.
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 7:52:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FW7071:
he says that the old standard 230 grain hardball (FMJ) stuff is the most dependable stuff to carry in a .45 handgun for self-defense purposes.

FMJ is the best self-defense round?

Yeah, and pigs may fly.
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 8:02:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Frost7:

Originally Posted By FW7071:
he says that the old standard 230 grain hardball (FMJ) stuff is the most dependable stuff to carry in a .45 handgun for self-defense purposes.

FMJ is the best self-defense round?

Yeah, and pigs may fly.


I second Frost
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 8:13:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By torrejon224:
I prefer Federal HST 230+P, it has excellent ballistics and is extremely accurate. It's LEO only but is available thru Streichers. Winchester Ranger 230 is also a good round but costs almost $10 more per box so I'll stick with the HST.


This.
Link Posted: 8/22/2008 8:19:01 PM EDT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_aU74kzx6Y


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