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Posted: 11/4/2016 11:25:59 PM EDT
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Posted: 11/4/2016 11:30:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Good read. Conveniently, I had just ordered 200rds for 147gr 9mm HST...
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Posted: 11/5/2016 12:26:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it
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Posted: 11/5/2016 6:42:04 AM EDT
[#3]
All the tests I have read points to HST as a superior handgun round, even out of a 3" barrel. I have also standardized the 147 grain P9HST2 in all my 9mm firearms for carry and home defense. My own testing shows this round as a really consistent performer in velocity and accuracy. This article is another one that helps drive confidence. Thanks for the link.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 10:00:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it Pull some .40 HST bullets and load em up in 10mm? As far as HST it excels at just about everything though the .380 tests I've seen the penetration wasn't to par a la .380 Ranger T etc..overexpansion leading to shallow depth. I'm using XTP and Gold Dot in that caliber. Switched to 147gr HST in my G19 recently and am liking it a lot. Still using 115 Gold Dot in my 9c because that's getting sold, no reason on to waste HST on doing testing. Wish they'd make HST in .38spl, though the author of that article specifically mentions the 158gr +P lead hollow point as being an effective load. Coincidentally that's the load I keep in my first handgun, a 3" K frame SS 64-3, round butt with a heavy barrel. Beautiful gun. Pre lock, all steel classic Smith and Wesson. Works well paired with my 158gr SWC handloads. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good read. Conveniently, I had just ordered 200rds for 147gr 9mm HST... Same here, except I just ordered 500 rounds. Couldn't fine my usual Ranger RA9TA at non-rape prices, so I got the 147-gr HST. 52 cents a round shipped. ETA: Notice the 147-gr 9mm penetrated 1 inch deeper than the 230-gr 45+P. 
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Posted: 11/5/2016 4:10:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Welcome to a few years ago?
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good read. Conveniently, I had just ordered 200rds for 147gr 9mm HST... Same here, except I just ordered 500 rounds. Couldn't fine my usual Ranger RA9TA at non-rape prices, so I got the 147-gr HST. 52 cents a round shipped. ETA: Notice the 147-gr 9mm penetrated 1 inch deeper than the 230-gr 45+P.
Why you would expect different is beyond me, speed kills metal, and .45 is a big ol heavy bullet not moving as fast. More like a 12ga slug vs a 20ga HV slug. If you think you might need to shoot into a vehicle to end a threat 9mm is a better choice than .45ACP for semi-auto handguns. .45ACP is still better on soft targets than 9mm. just not as good at piercing barriers....and obviously 10mm and .460Rowland beat both in both areas. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 4:40:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Been carrying 9mm Hst 147 since I saw gel test reports 10 years ago. Also carry the Hst 180 grn in my .40 guns.
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Posted: 11/5/2016 7:30:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I carry nothing but HST in .45 and 9mm
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/ |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 1:35:30 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/6/2016 1:40:26 AM EDT
[#10]
I am still a big fan of Winchester Ranger T.
But the HST is a damn good bullet as well. Have seen Federal/ATK do the LE demonstration in person with tons of different loads. The Ranger Talon, HST, and Gold Dot all do remarkably well in denim, glass, and bare gel. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 5:26:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it Take a look at the Federal P10T1 Trophy Bonded 180gr JSP in 10mm.... damn good round for a variety of uses. It's what I carry. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 6:06:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to a few years ago? Why you would expect different is beyond me, speed kills metal, and .45 is a big ol heavy bullet not moving as fast. More like a 12ga slug vs a 20ga HV slug. If you think you might need to shoot into a vehicle to end a threat 9mm is a better choice than .45ACP for semi-auto handguns. .45ACP is still better on soft targets than 9mm. just not as good at piercing barriers....and obviously 10mm and .460Rowland beat both in both areas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to a few years ago? Quoted: Quoted: Good read. Conveniently, I had just ordered 200rds for 147gr 9mm HST... Same here, except I just ordered 500 rounds. Couldn't fine my usual Ranger RA9TA at non-rape prices, so I got the 147-gr HST. 52 cents a round shipped. ETA: Notice the 147-gr 9mm penetrated 1 inch deeper than the 230-gr 45+P. Why you would expect different is beyond me, speed kills metal, and .45 is a big ol heavy bullet not moving as fast. More like a 12ga slug vs a 20ga HV slug. If you think you might need to shoot into a vehicle to end a threat 9mm is a better choice than .45ACP for semi-auto handguns. .45ACP is still better on soft targets than 9mm. just not as good at piercing barriers....and obviously 10mm and .460Rowland beat both in both areas. The 147 9mm starts with a sectional density of .64, and expands it drops to .167 which is the ratio to how wide it is to how much mass it has.
the .45 Starts at .162 and drops to .065 expanded. |
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Posted: 11/6/2016 3:15:19 PM EDT
[#13]
I still prefer RA9T to the 147gr HST loads, mostly because it seems, on average, to penetrate a bit more. It does give up some expanded diameter to get there though, verses the 147gr HST. It also seems to be more accurate, and slightly less flashy at night, compared to the Federal loads. I have shot both side by side, and have carried the Ranger load for a long time. Both are good loads, with decent sharp cutting edges and good expanded diameters. If RA9T was not available, I'd carry HST without hesitation.
YMMV/different strokes-different folks/etc HST does have availability in 50 round boxes on the current market (and at really decent prices). The same can not be said of the Ranger loads... they are harder to find. All that said, I have a decent stash of 147gr HST pulled bullets to load up... if I ever find a new house and get my reloading stuff set up again. |
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Posted: 11/11/2016 10:31:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Does anyone have experience with HSTs in .357Sig?
I'll have to go look and see if they make a loading in 147gr for .357, as that was my preferred weight when I carried 9mm. Right now I'm stuffing Underwood 125gr into my carry guns, but wonder if the 147 might be better. |
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Posted: 11/11/2016 11:10:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone have experience with HSTs in .357Sig? I'll have to go look and see if they make a loading in 147gr for .357, as that was my preferred weight when I carried 9mm. Right now I'm stuffing Underwood 125gr into my carry guns, but wonder if the 147 might be better. Neither Federal or Speer offer a 147grn .357 Sig load. Most people will tell you the .357 Sig is optimized for the 125grn bullet, and if you want to go heavier, you might as well just shoot a 155 grain .40 bullet, which is easy to find in HST. |
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Posted: 11/14/2016 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#16]
The HST rounds are awesome. Unlike other hollow points rhey always seem to open.
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Posted: 11/14/2016 9:32:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone have experience with HSTs in .357Sig? I'll have to go look and see if they make a loading in 147gr for .357, as that was my preferred weight when I carried 9mm. Right now I'm stuffing Underwood 125gr into my carry guns, but wonder if the 147 might be better. I carry Gold Dots in my Glock 32. When they rotate out I'll switch them for HST. All my 9mm Glocks have 147gr HST |
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Posted: 11/14/2016 5:16:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Standard of excellence. .....no argument there
But new......... |
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Posted: 11/14/2016 5:23:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone have experience with HSTs in .357Sig? I'll have to go look and see if they make a loading in 147gr for .357, as that was my preferred weight when I carried 9mm. Right now I'm stuffing Underwood 125gr into my carry guns, but wonder if the 147 might be better. This was all I could find on 357 sig HST. I'm not sure the HST holds up under the high velocity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kLkpIljrNA ETA: maybe those in the video are the non-bonded version? |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 4:13:52 AM EDT
[#20]
AFAIK all HST is not bonded
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Posted: 11/15/2016 4:24:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pull some .40 HST bullets and load em up in 10mm? As far as HST it excels at just about everything though the .380 tests I've seen the penetration wasn't to par a la .380 Ranger T etc..overexpansion leading to shallow depth. I'm using XTP and Gold Dot in that caliber. Switched to 147gr HST in my G19 recently and am liking it a lot. Still using 115 Gold Dot in my 9c because that's getting sold, no reason on to waste HST on doing testing. Wish they'd make HST in .38spl, though the author of that article specifically mentions the 158gr +P lead hollow point as being an effective load. Coincidentally that's the load I keep in my first handgun, a 3" K frame SS 64-3, round butt with a heavy barrel. Beautiful gun. Pre lock, all steel classic Smith and Wesson. Works well paired with my 158gr SWC handloads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it Pull some .40 HST bullets and load em up in 10mm? As far as HST it excels at just about everything though the .380 tests I've seen the penetration wasn't to par a la .380 Ranger T etc..overexpansion leading to shallow depth. I'm using XTP and Gold Dot in that caliber. Switched to 147gr HST in my G19 recently and am liking it a lot. Still using 115 Gold Dot in my 9c because that's getting sold, no reason on to waste HST on doing testing. Wish they'd make HST in .38spl, though the author of that article specifically mentions the 158gr +P lead hollow point as being an effective load. Coincidentally that's the load I keep in my first handgun, a 3" K frame SS 64-3, round butt with a heavy barrel. Beautiful gun. Pre lock, all steel classic Smith and Wesson. Works well paired with my 158gr SWC handloads. I love doing this type of science. Pure, no agenda driven science. |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 9:08:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was given two 180 HST's this evening. I pulled one to load into 10mm at a later time and will use the .40 HST 180 as a control during my test of the two. I love doing this type of science. Pure, no agenda driven science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it Pull some .40 HST bullets and load em up in 10mm? As far as HST it excels at just about everything though the .380 tests I've seen the penetration wasn't to par a la .380 Ranger T etc..overexpansion leading to shallow depth. I'm using XTP and Gold Dot in that caliber. Switched to 147gr HST in my G19 recently and am liking it a lot. Still using 115 Gold Dot in my 9c because that's getting sold, no reason on to waste HST on doing testing. Wish they'd make HST in .38spl, though the author of that article specifically mentions the 158gr +P lead hollow point as being an effective load. Coincidentally that's the load I keep in my first handgun, a 3" K frame SS 64-3, round butt with a heavy barrel. Beautiful gun. Pre lock, all steel classic Smith and Wesson. Works well paired with my 158gr SWC handloads. I love doing this type of science. Pure, no agenda driven science. Awesome should be interesting. Maybe post your results in the reloading forum |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 9:33:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was given two 180 HST's this evening. I pulled one to load into 10mm at a later time and will use the .40 HST 180 as a control during my test of the two. I love doing this type of science. Pure, no agenda driven science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Every handgun I own/carry has HST's in them. From .380 to .45, guaranteed there is an HST in them...except for 10mm because Federal has none for it Pull some .40 HST bullets and load em up in 10mm? As far as HST it excels at just about everything though the .380 tests I've seen the penetration wasn't to par a la .380 Ranger T etc..overexpansion leading to shallow depth. I'm using XTP and Gold Dot in that caliber. Switched to 147gr HST in my G19 recently and am liking it a lot. Still using 115 Gold Dot in my 9c because that's getting sold, no reason on to waste HST on doing testing. Wish they'd make HST in .38spl, though the author of that article specifically mentions the 158gr +P lead hollow point as being an effective load. Coincidentally that's the load I keep in my first handgun, a 3" K frame SS 64-3, round butt with a heavy barrel. Beautiful gun. Pre lock, all steel classic Smith and Wesson. Works well paired with my 158gr SWC handloads. I love doing this type of science. Pure, no agenda driven science. Disregard, I try to link to something that is out of stock, had to go back and delete my original reply
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Posted: 11/15/2016 9:56:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote History Show me a 9mm-9mm or .40-.40 GD/HST. |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 10:34:18 AM EDT
[#25]
GSL you just missed HST pulls on RMR...they're mixed weight and were damn cheap too.
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Posted: 11/15/2016 11:25:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GSL you just missed HST pulls on RMR...they're mixed weight and were damn cheap too. before I have to go in to work.
I just tested Remington 180 Golden Saber Bonded in 10mm and also Winchester Ranger 180 in 10mm as well. R-P casings, Winchester LPP, and 8.1 grains of Power Pistol. If anyone wants the results I'll create my own thread, sorry for the thread hijack. |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 7:25:17 PM EDT
[#27]
I've been on the usual websites as well as the local Cabela's and Gander Mountain looking for this ammo.
No one has it. |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 8:54:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been on the usual websites as well as the local Cabela's and Gander Mountain looking for this ammo. No one has it. What caliber are you looking for? Target Sports has good deals on 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP Example: P9HST2 @ 40 CPR |
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Posted: 11/16/2016 12:17:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What caliber are you looking for? Target Sports has good deals on 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP Example: P9HST2 @ 40 CPR Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been on the usual websites as well as the local Cabela's and Gander Mountain looking for this ammo. No one has it. What caliber are you looking for? Target Sports has good deals on 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP Example: P9HST2 @ 40 CPR Thanks. Just put in an order. |
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Posted: 11/16/2016 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Just put in an order. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been on the usual websites as well as the local Cabela's and Gander Mountain looking for this ammo. No one has it. What caliber are you looking for? Target Sports has good deals on 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP Example: P9HST2 @ 40 CPR Thanks. Just put in an order. Oooeee that's a sweet deal. I bought a quarter case from them last month at $20/50 
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Posted: 11/16/2016 2:10:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dam it. I could have used them too. Missed it while at the GSL Proving Grounds before I have to go in to work.
I just tested Remington 180 Golden Saber Bonded in 10mm and also Winchester Ranger 180 in 10mm as well. R-P casings, Winchester LPP, and 8.1 grains of Power Pistol. If anyone wants the results I'll create my own thread, sorry for the thread hijack. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GSL you just missed HST pulls on RMR...they're mixed weight and were damn cheap too. before I have to go in to work.
I just tested Remington 180 Golden Saber Bonded in 10mm and also Winchester Ranger 180 in 10mm as well. R-P casings, Winchester LPP, and 8.1 grains of Power Pistol. If anyone wants the results I'll create my own thread, sorry for the thread hijack. Interesting, you got those as component bullets? The GS and Ranger I mean. Some water jug tests would be cool I think. |
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Posted: 11/16/2016 2:30:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting, you got those as component bullets? The GS and Ranger I mean. Some water jug tests would be cool I think. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
GSL you just missed HST pulls on RMR...they're mixed weight and were damn cheap too. before I have to go in to work.
I just tested Remington 180 Golden Saber Bonded in 10mm and also Winchester Ranger 180 in 10mm as well. R-P casings, Winchester LPP, and 8.1 grains of Power Pistol. If anyone wants the results I'll create my own thread, sorry for the thread hijack. Interesting, you got those as component bullets? The GS and Ranger I mean. Some water jug tests would be cool I think. 
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Posted: 11/23/2016 5:24:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Is there anything the HST does substantially better than Speer Gold Dots? In my current load (124gr 9mm+P) it seems that I wouldn't objectively gain much by switching to HST. For reference, G19 is the weapon.
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Posted: 11/23/2016 6:28:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there anything the HST does substantially better than Speer Gold Dots? In my current load (124gr 9mm+P) it seems that I wouldn't objectively gain much by switching to HST. For reference, G19 is the weapon. The only thing I have seen with gel testing is that HST (9mm) seems to reliably expand at lower velocities allowing use in shorter barrels. Based on those same tests anything 4" and longer (like your G19), Gold Dots expand well in gel through denim. It also appears that Gold Dots penetrates deeper out of those longer barrels with a little less expansion than HST. So if gel tests matter to you, I would say that your selection of Gold Dots for your G19 is just fine. No compelling reason to switch unless you can find HST for a lot less cost (147gr @ 40 cpr lately) |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 9:14:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there anything the HST does substantially better than Speer Gold Dots? In my current load (124gr 9mm+P) it seems that I wouldn't objectively gain much by switching to HST. For reference, G19 is the weapon. Not in my opinion, no. |
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Posted: 11/23/2016 8:43:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only thing I have seen with gel testing is that HST (9mm) seems to reliably expand at lower velocities allowing use in shorter barrels. Based on those same tests anything 4" and longer (like your G19), Gold Dots expand well in gel through denim. It also appears that Gold Dots penetrates deeper out of those longer barrels with a little less expansion than HST. So if gel tests matter to you, I would say that your selection of Gold Dots for your G19 is just fine. No compelling reason to switch unless you can find HST for a lot less cost (147gr @ 40 cpr lately) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is there anything the HST does substantially better than Speer Gold Dots? In my current load (124gr 9mm+P) it seems that I wouldn't objectively gain much by switching to HST. For reference, G19 is the weapon. The only thing I have seen with gel testing is that HST (9mm) seems to reliably expand at lower velocities allowing use in shorter barrels. Based on those same tests anything 4" and longer (like your G19), Gold Dots expand well in gel through denim. It also appears that Gold Dots penetrates deeper out of those longer barrels with a little less expansion than HST. So if gel tests matter to you, I would say that your selection of Gold Dots for your G19 is just fine. No compelling reason to switch unless you can find HST for a lot less cost (147gr @ 40 cpr lately) I've done a decent amount of research on this, and this is the exact same conclusion I came to. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 9:32:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Just as an FYI, the Hst Micro, optimized for short bbls, work as advertised. Solely based on my own, non-scientific shooting. Less recoil and faster follow up, :)
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:23:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just as an FYI, the Hst Micro, optimized for short bbls, work as advertised. Solely based on my own, non-scientific shooting. Less recoil and faster follow up, :) However, I am not one of them. I've done tests too. Will buy more. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:32:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but that still won't stop certain posters from getting angry saying you overpaid, it's a gimmick, that you don't need it, etc. However, I am not one of them. I've done tests too. Will buy more. Lol. I do what I want. 
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Posted: 1/30/2017 9:13:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Good read OP. Thanks for sharing! HST in heavy for caliber loadings are my first choice for SD ammo in 9, .40cal, & .45acp... I use HST's exclusively all my pistols I have in these calibers; followed closely by Gold Dots if I'm in a pinch... and when Gold Dot's or HST's were hard to come by several years ago then Golden Sabres were a nice third string
substitute. HST's are the king though. However, I carried Ranger B's in my 1911 before I was turned on to HST's... and Hornady XTP's even before that. Everyone of the aforementioned rounds perform well... but not as well as the HST admittedly! Now for my Colt 2" and S&W 1 and 7/8th" .38Special Snubs: I use Buffalo Bore's 158 gr LSWC-HC, deep cavitation, totally exposed hollow points, (the quintessential FBI load in the 80's-90's), for the skreets and BB's Hard Cast semi-wad cutters for the woods. Both loads are pushing .38Spec +P velocities but are safe to shoot in the Aluminum framed Colt Agent and especially for my all steel vintage M36's. I too wish HST would come out with a 158gr HP's because it's easy to carry these snubs... I've heard great things about Gold Dot's 135gr +P loadings though but I've never tried them... Think I will now! |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 9:30:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Stocked up on 147 GDHP a looooong time ago but thinking about retiring it for the. CCW is a G26
Although honestlyi truly wonder if it makes a difference. And under the same conditions would one do better than the other. You'll never know. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 9:31:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Why no friggin .38 spcl?
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Posted: 1/30/2017 9:35:42 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 1/31/2017 12:49:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryWell, that sure looks different. Looking forward to trying it out. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 3:49:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryVery cool, looks like how the old wadcutters were deep set like that. |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 6:19:55 PM EDT
[#46]
How come federal doesn't list any +p or 147 grain offerings on their website?
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Posted: 2/11/2017 6:24:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How come federal doesn't list any +p or 147 grain offerings on their website? Don't know, just gave a cursory look and only saw 124 and 150 for 9x19. |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 6:47:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How come federal doesn't list any +p or 147 grain offerings on their website? You're looking in the wrong place. Go here and click on Tactical® HST® |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:26:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not speed as much a .45 turns into a parachute; The 147 9mm starts with a sectional density of .64, and expands it drops to .167 which is the ratio to how wide it is to how much mass it has. the .45 Starts at .162 and drops to .065 expanded. Wut? Your numbers are a tiny bit off .380 / 9mm caliber (.355") 90 grain, SD .102 95 grain, SD .108 100 grain, SD .113 115 grain, SD .130 124 grain, SD .141 147 grain, SD .167 .40 / 10mm caliber (.400") 155 grain, SD .138 165 grain, SD .147 180 grain, SD .161 200 grain, SD .179 .45 caliber (.451-.452") 185 grain, SD .130 200 grain, SD .140 225 grain, SD .158 230 grain, SD .162 250 grain, SD .175 |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 9:53:35 AM EDT
[#50]
I've bought a lot of Speer Gold Dot in 9mm and stocked up before HSTs were the cat's meow.
Moving forward, I'll try to find 9mm in HST All my 45ACP defensive is HST. |
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