Old HST vs. New Hst

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Posted: 5/9/2016 9:56:51 PM EDT

I'm reading, on another forum, that the newest lots of 9mm HST 147 is different than the "older" ammo from a few months ago.

Specifically, the jacket skivvies are shorter, possibly to reduce expansion diameter. Also, they are getting lower velocities by 40-50 fps. Same with the +P version.

Has anyone ordered HST recently that can compare with stocks from 2015 or earlier?

Posted: 5/10/2016 9:17:31 AM EDT

[#1]

My understanding is that they are trying for more penetration and less expansion (prevent petals from peeling to far backwards). Either way HST are a fantastic round

Posted: 5/10/2016 10:16:55 AM EDT

[#2]

Maybe due to feedback from actual shootings or maybe some new "tweeked" requirement. But I'm too old and stubborn to like change...

Either way, I ordered a few boxes of the 147 HST to play with. Hopefully, Molon or someone will do a comparison.

Posted: 5/10/2016 1:55:25 PM EDT

[#3]

You can't go wrong with HST old or new. That is my preferred carry round. I use the 124 +P in shorter 3"+ barrels and 147 in 5"+ and 147+P in 4"+ barrels

Posted: 5/11/2016 11:51:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Just got this 147gr +P HST the other day:

Posted: 5/12/2016 9:07:01 AM EDT

[#5]

Thank you for another excellent video Buffman.

I see that the bullet skivvies are shorter on this latest version of HST that you showed in your video. The velocity seems to be about 50 fps slower on average from older HST used in other tests. Granted, slight differences in the gun and atmospheric conditions (even leaving the ammo in the sun) can account for 50fps difference.

I'm not saying that HST is no longer good. The changes may even make it better. But Federal seems to have "tweeked" the load.

The HST 9mm 147 (non-+P) that just arrived at my door yesterday has the same bullet with the long skivvies as the older style. I do not have a chrono to test it and I doubt that I will be able to feel the difference in recoil.

Lets keep the evaluations coming.

Posted: 5/12/2016 9:27:14 PM EDT

[#6]

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I see that the bullet skivvies are shorter on this latest version of HST that you showed in your video.

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Posted: 5/12/2016 10:30:10 PM EDT

[#7]

Skivies? OK thanks. Spell check doesn't like it either way.

If I was less lazy, I would look up Molon's past posts and get the exact nomenclature....ogive, cannalure...

And I'm still hoping Molon does his magic and posts a detailed evaluation of HST, "then and now".

Posted: 5/12/2016 10:33:38 PM EDT

[#8]

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And I'm still hoping Molon does his magic and posts a detailed evaluation of HST, "then and now".

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And The List just keeps gettin' longer and longer.

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Posted: 5/14/2016 2:40:14 AM EDT

[#9]

Could someone post pics of the difference between the old and the new HST's ?

Posted: 5/14/2016 2:16:55 PM EDT

[#10]

You can kinda see the shorter skivvies in Buffman's video. But for an actual comparison, we will have to wait.

The 147 HST that I just received has the same exact skivvies as my older, 2014 and 2015 stuff. But it can be from older stock that was sitting in the warehouse since 2015.

We will not know if there is any actual difference in performance, and to what extent, until the on-line jell test videos start showing up. Hopefully soon. And hopefully, Federal was not trying to compete with Speer in their G2 fiasco. If the darn ammo works great, don't f#@# with it...

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Could someone post pics of the difference between the old and the new HST's ?

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Posted: 5/14/2016 5:29:50 PM EDT

[#11]

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And The List just keeps gettin' longer and longer.

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And I'm still hoping Molon does his magic and posts a detailed evaluation of HST, "then and now".

And The List just keeps gettin' longer and longer.

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Quit your job.

Posted: 5/15/2016 10:28:22 PM EDT

[#12]

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Skivies? OK thanks. Spell check doesn't like it either way.

If I was less lazy, I would look up Molon's past posts and get the exact nomenclature....ogive, cannalure...

And I'm still hoping Molon does his magic and posts a detailed evaluation of HST, "then and now".

View Quote

Only one I. Skive - or plural skives.

Posted: 5/23/2016 7:59:11 AM EDT

[#13]

Any update on this?
Could someone please post pics of the differences between the two?
Molon when are you going to do the test with the new skives?

Posted: 6/6/2016 7:58:09 PM EDT

[#14]

Do you want me to throw them on a comparator or something? I have a few precision measurement tools at work..

New 147gr vs old 147gr (right)

Posted: 6/7/2016 7:58:12 AM EDT

[#15]

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https://app.box.com/shared/static/c7gvsqc6h0jaf8ujslpv2iucigk7com5.jpg

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Quoted:

I see that the bullet skivvies are shorter on this latest version of HST that you showed in your video.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/c7gvsqc6h0jaf8ujslpv2iucigk7com5.jpg

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That's awesome. I love that movie

Posted: 6/7/2016 4:59:38 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:
Do you want me to throw them on a comparator or something? I have a few precision measurement tools at work..

New 147gr vs old 147gr (right)

<a href="http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/Svlwrx/media/IMG_32332_zpsopyjkfho.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o591/Svlwrx/IMG_32332_zpsopyjkfho.jpg</a>

I think that would be awesome.
And Thanks for posting the pic.

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Posted: 6/11/2016 10:28:33 PM EDT

[#17]

Old Left, New right. Old skives measured .31805" in length. The new measured .28285". Other measurements slightly differ (top of bullet to cannelure), but they're off by .xxx" so that could be manufacturing tolerances. You'll notice in the top down, you'll see the jacket, mouth opening appears to be thicker on the old. Also note that the old has more lead coming to the top of the bullet than the new.

Posted: 6/12/2016 12:17:39 PM EDT

[#18]

Thanks Buffman, do you think you could shoot them in some gel and see if there's any measurable difference ?

Posted: 6/12/2016 10:26:54 PM EDT

[#19]

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Thanks Buffman, do you think you could shoot them in some gel and see if there's any measurable difference ?

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Id have to find some standard pressure new. My old HST is standard pressure 147gr, and the new stuff I have is +P

Posted: 6/13/2016 12:15:23 AM EDT

[#20]

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And The List just keeps gettin' longer and longer.

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And I'm still hoping Molon does his magic and posts a detailed evaluation of HST, "then and now".

And The List just keeps gettin' longer and longer.

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Your dedication and efforts are greatly appreciated. It allows us all to have access to good unbiased reviews and data on ammunition. Thank you sir for what you do!

Posted: 6/13/2016 3:04:45 PM EDT

[#21]

Happened to have a couple of half-full boxes of HST in my can of range ammo. One is date coded March 2013 and has with the longer, deeper skives. The other is date coded October 2014 and has the shallower skives. I'll have to get deeper in my ammo cans for more data, but it appears they've been using the tweaked bullet for at least 20 months. DocGKR recently tested a 2015 lot of 147 HST and found that it performed ideally:

All test shots were conducted using a 9 mm Glock 19 with OEM barrel.

9 mm Fed 147 gr HST had an average velocity of 1017 fps

9 mm Fed 147 gr HST BG: Pen = 13.8”, RD = 0.66”, RL = 0.35”, RW = 148.4 gr
9 mm Fed 147 gr HST 4LD: Pen = 15.5”, RD = 0.52”, RL = 0.53”, RW = 148.5 gr
9 mm Fed 147 gr HST AG: Pen = 12.5”, RD = 0.51”, RL = 0.54”, RW = 146.2 gr"

Source

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Posted: 6/13/2016 9:57:01 PM EDT

[#22]

From the pictures it appears that the newer version uses less jacket material and may be less expensive to manufacture.

Posted: 6/22/2016 11:12:22 PM EDT

[#23]

I just got my order from P9HST2 Bone Frog Gun Club and it is the new stuff. So I dug threw all of my miscellaneous boxes of P9HST2 and T4, and they are all the new bullet design. I probably bought all of it at various times last year.

Posted: 6/27/2016 12:49:52 PM EDT

[#24]

I guess Federal has been shipping the newer bullet for a few years, based on the replies.

I believe some folks even had both bullet designs in the same box. I remember, during tnoutdoors review from a few years ago, there was an odd bullet in his box which had longer or shorter skivvies.

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