So I read this article today........

http://agiletactical.com/carry-ammo-safety-and-readiness-the-danger-of-rechambering-your-carry-ammo-too-many-times/

How many times do you guys (and gals) cycle a round before you fire it?  Anyone had an issue like the ones in the article?

The primer can become set further into the casing, causing more of a gap between it and the firing pin strike. You could get a light strike or no strike at all.
This usually does not happen very easily. Many chamberings of the same round over and over again can get you there; but does it take 10 times or 100 times?

I would only use the same round 5 times (loading/unloading the chamber) before chucking it into the practice ammo pile. Maybe fewer times if the round is getting chewed up by the extractor.

I've never had a problem with primers recessing deeper. Not saying it can't happen, just saying I've never encountered it.

What I have encountered is the other end - the dreaded 'bullet setback'. It's rarely an issue though. Only ammunition I can recall having major problems with it was some Triton Hi-Vel 9mm stuff probably 10-15 years ago. It was 125-grain +P stuff and just three or four re-chamberings would set back noticeably. Never had any others that were that sensitive to it, but I'm sure it can happen.


That said, in the article, it says that these two rounds of ammo were un-chambered & re-chambered every day for years, which tells us that that person didn't shoot their daily-carry ammo for years; if they shot at all. Shoot your gun, with your carry ammunition, and this can't become an issue.

From later in the article:

That's either horrifically poor factory quality, or blatant stupidity.

And this is unfathomable.

I drop the round into the chamber and then let the slide slam forward from about the half way position. No set back after 20+ loadings, measured with calipers.

Doing it that way shouldn't ever cause setback; it's the impact of the bullet on the ramp when feeding from the magazine that causes it.

That may not be great for your extractor though...

Correct. For the vast majority of guns, DO NOT just drop a round in the chamber and let the slide fly home.

Several years ago, I was carrying my Glock 21 as my duty gun at my PD job. The firearms instructor, a MAJOR jackass, was simulating FTFire malfunctions by dropping an empty case into the chamber and letting the slide fly home. I protested and was told to STFU or I'd fail the qualification course. Instructor drops the empty in and lets the slide slam home. I clear the malf and qualify successfully. When I got home and cleaned my gun, I found the bottom 2/3 of the extractor chipped off. Gun still ran but the extractor needed fixed. I got one and fixed it and all was well.

The next year, the same thing was going on. Again, I protested and again was told to STFU. I showed the Chief that the extractor was fine. The instructor dropped an empty into the chamber and let the slide slam home. I immediately cleared the gun and checked the extractor and, sure enough, bottom 2/3 of the extractor was chipped off. I showed the Chief, Chief bitched the instructor out, Dept paid for the extractor and the instructor never did that again to simulate a malf.

There are very few pistols that this is acceptable with. The Beretta 92FS is one and the Ruger P89 is another. I don't know of any others that this is acceptable for, although there may be others. I can tell you from experience, it is not OK for Glocks. This is one time when reading the manual is a good thing. Unless the manual specifically says it is OK, DON'T DO IT! Eventually you WILL either chip the extractor claw or peen it over to where it won't work.

Bub75

Coming from Sigarms I believe it. They(Sigarms) are not the same company they were in the '80s and "90s.

Not to doubt you but how can brass chip hardened steel ?

The momentum of the slide causing the extractor claw to impact the case rim in a way that it's not designed.

Exactly. On most semi auto pistols, the rim of the cartridge is designed to slip up under the extractor from the bottom. The extractor is not designed to snap over the rim. If you try to make it snap over the rim, bad things happen. The extractor claw isn't very thick so it is relatively easy to chip the extractor claw if you make it work in a way it wasn't designed to do. If you have any dummy rounds, try to cycle a round into a semi auto pistol slowly and watch how it feeds through the ejection port. The round is supposed to feed out of the magazine and the base and rim slide up the breech face and behind the extractor claw as the round chambers.

Bub75

Hero and bub75 are right.  Most owner's manuals will say, "Do not drop a round in the chamber.  Cycle it from the magazine."  Thank you to all who read and replied to this thread.  Much appreciated.  

Thanks, I will stop doing this from here on out. I checked out my extractor and it looks fine other than a smear of brass. So seems like I lucked out. This was a CZ75 by the way. Good to know.

The examples in the article are extreme and point out the unfortunate fact that many in law enforcement and security occupations are not very knowledgeable about firearms and ammunition. To many of them they are just tools. I have a deep respect for LEOs, my best friend is one and a firearms instructor. His personal observations corroborate my opinion.

Don't let the slide slam home on carry ammunition. If you control the slide and chamber the round from the magazine slowly, the chances of setback or fracturing the primer mix are greatly reduced. I usually rotate my carry ammunition every six months or so, house guns less often. Have not had any setback or other issues since adopting this practice years ago. I probably extract and chamber the same round a dozen times in between rotation ( range trips, cleaning , safe handling, etc.  ) personally I  think the setback issue is overblown. Before the days of the Internet and the vast wealth of knowledge available, we never knew setback was a problem and fired those rounds with no I'll effects. Our major concern was would a setback round reliably feed...

Just my personal experience based on over 30 years of experience shooting handguns...

1DD

Not me. I kept an eye out for bullet setback but haven't visually detected any in 5 years.....It's not something I worry about.
I don't cycle ammo much these days.

I do this also.

Tested a Springfield EMP and noticed after 5-10 rechamberings ("sling shot" of the slide) it seemed to not only set back, but to also smash the heck out of the hollowpoint, to the point I think it would behave like ball ammo (or after going through wallboard/metal etc).  That gun (a 1911 type) had a very steep feed ramp....

ETA: I forget how many chambersing, I think 10, but not all were 10 (I think I did 5 and 10)



Bad pics, but you can see the HP cavity is really smashed down and closed off.

That looks caused by bad gun design there..... My Springfield GI will scratch the sides of the HP after a few chamberings but not cause that sort of damage.

I have definitely experienced bullet set-back in rounds that have been chambered multiple times from slingshot loading or dropping slide with slide release. I unload the chamber of my CCW every day when I get home. If I'm not carrying the pistol for defense, I keep the chamber empty. I carry Glock pistols BTW.

What I do to make the chambered rounds last longer is ride/ease the slide forward when loading and push the slide forward to insure it's in battery. It's always in battery, but I STILL do this to make sure.

I ONLY do this with a CLEAN CHAMBER and FEED RAMP though. Eventually I will still have to replace the chambered round but it is not nearly as often.

Now if I am doing a tactical reload, I most certainly pull the slide all the way to the rear and let it fly or drop the slide with the slide release if necessary.

I examine my carry rounds regularly and rotate them out when they look too marred up or show signs of any bullet set-back.

I can't afford to load a new round once to several times everyday so this method works for me. If you choose to do this, DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK. The key is a CLEAN RAMP and CHAMBER, and of course pushing the slide forward to make sure it's in battery.

ALL OTHER SAFETY RULES APPLY!

-Edited for proper wording
-Edit 2- I am loading with this method from a loaded magazine only never dropping a live round in the chamber and letting the slide ease OR slam forward on it. This is not good for the extractor as stated below and above in other replies.

Curious as to why you unload your piece every day?

1DD

Great info, ARCOM needs a Thank You button!

I hit the range with my carry piece at least every other week, I will clear the carry ammo and set aside (I have looked and it doesn't seem to be set back?) and will usually every other trip use the carry mag to start my sessions at the range.


Good to know on chamber loading, never done it, but have thought about it. Will definitely not do that.

I want to make sure I'm not making a poor assumption:

what is 'chamber loading'

thanks

I'm not going to leave a pistol unattended with a live round in the chamber for safety reasons. I keep the magazine full though. It takes only a split second to charge the pistol if I have to in a hurry.




They are referring to "chamber loading" as dropping a round in an empty chamber and dropping the slide on it causing the front edge of the extractor to slam in to the cartridge rim before it springs out to grasp the rim. This is not good for the extractor. It can chip some extractors and bend or break others. Some pistols might handle doing this it's but not good for most. The only reason I can think of to want to do this is if you don't have or lost your magazine and need to make an emergency shot.

It's always best to load the chamber from a loaded magazine. That way the rim of the cartridge slips under the extractor as it is pushed up from the magazine under spring pressure and smoothly goes in to battery without stressing the extractor.

Added info-
Now an AR loads differently as far as the extractor is concerned. It's designed to push against the back of the cartridge rim and spring out and back in to grasp the rim. So are other rifles(like the Remington 700 for instance). There are other magazine fed firearms that chamber like this too but most auto pistols do not.

Edit-to add quote/question

One thing I feel new shooters who don't already know is when loading fresh rounds from a magazine, especially if needed to be loaded quickly, it is correct to pull the side all the way to the rear and "slingshot" it forward. This is actually the proper loading technique in combat and training. If I'm shooting on the range I always use this technique.

The slow and easing of rounds in to the chamber is used for the same round that has to be loaded and unloaded many times, such as in a carry pistol, to keep the round from getting too beat up from repeated loading and ONLY this reason.

If I were to load a brand new round every time I chambered a round, I will always load it with the full force of the recoil spring. ONLY repeated loading of the same cartridge over and over is why the slow "riding the slide" method is preferred IMO.

Now if I need to load a round in the chamber because my life or safety requires it, I wouldn't care how many times I've loaded the top round in the magazine, I'm grabbing the rear of the slide and pulling it back and letting it fly forward as fast as possible. "GRIP IT AND RIP IT!"

Once again- ALL SAFETY RULES APPLY

Thanks for the excellent explanation.  

My assumption wasn't so bad after all.

Still good to know....  

OP, your choice to unload every day, but IMHO a pistol with an empty chamber and a full magazine is still "loaded", especially if you are leaving it unsecured and unattended. You might think you will have time to rack the slide and chamber a round when the SHTF but I can tell you from personal experience that you might just not have those precious seconds when you  will need them the most...

1DD