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Posted: 6/13/2015 4:10:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Would the US military have used them for machine guns if they were hard on bores?
Not that mgs are known for their accuracy, but I think that this answers your question. There have even been iron jackets used at one time. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 1:44:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the US military have used them for machine guns if they were hard on bores? Not that mgs are known for their accuracy, but I think that this answers your question. There have even been iron jackets used at one time. NO They military would use it because the amount of ammunition fired costs more than the barrel they're replacing. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 2:23:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Check out Lucky Gunners steel-cased, bi-metallic ammo test.
Yea, they're "harder" on the barrel, but more economical in the long run. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 3:30:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check out Lucky Gunners steel-cased, bi-metallic ammo test. Yea, they're "harder" on the barrel, but more economical in the long run. That particular ammunition was harder on the barrels. I personally think the powder did it in. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 6:59:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Pistol rounds are way lower pressure than a 5.56. Non-issue in a pistol.
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Posted: 6/14/2015 8:16:58 AM EDT
[#6]
I recall a thread on this subject where someone posted an image of a fired handgun bullet that had been scanned at the microscopic level. The image clearly showed that the rifling in the barrel cut through the bullet's thin copper jacket and down into the harder steel underneath. There's definitely barrel steel on jacket steel contact.
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Posted: 6/15/2015 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Probably not much worse than the 3,000 F to 4,000 F reactive gas behind the bullet
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Posted: 6/15/2015 11:41:18 AM EDT
[#8]
I get so sick of the lucky gunner steel ammo test reference.
Who the hell shoots like 8k steel rounds without cleaning their rifle. It's simple laws of physics. The steel in your barrell is a hell of a lot harder than the jacket of a tula round. |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 12:38:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Well, it's about some RWS bi-metal jacketed 124gr. 9mm that I have stashed away.
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Posted: 6/15/2015 1:54:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get so sick of the lucky gunner steel ammo test reference. Who the hell shoots like 8k steel rounds without cleaning their rifle. It's simple laws of physics. The steel in your barrell is a hell of a lot harder than the jacket of a tula round. weather it was cleaned or not has nothing to do with the wear rate |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 1:58:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
weather it was cleaned or not has nothing to do with the wear rate Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I get so sick of the lucky gunner steel ammo test reference. Who the hell shoots like 8k steel rounds without cleaning their rifle. It's simple laws of physics. The steel in your barrell is a hell of a lot harder than the jacket of a tula round. weather it was cleaned or not has nothing to do with the wear rate Agreed, but those steel round stoppages were because of built up carbon. |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 2:04:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Bimetal jackets aren't necessarily harder.
I found this link a long time ago and found it very interesting. http://yarchive.net/gun/engraving_force.html |
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Posted: 6/18/2015 2:35:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Unless you plan on full auto dumping thousands of rounds in a single session, you will not notice the difference. Shoot whatever you want. If you wear out a pistol barrel, congratulate yourself at having the time and money to do so.
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Posted: 6/19/2015 8:04:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get so sick of the lucky gunner steel ammo test reference. Who the hell shoots like 8k steel rounds without cleaning their rifle. It's simple laws of physics. The steel in your barrell is a hell of a lot harder than the jacket of a tula round. Couldn't agree more. Most of us actually try to take care of our gear. This blatant neglect of good rifles probably isnt too relevant to how I use/treat my rifles. My rifles will never go 1k rounds without cleaning. |
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Posted: 6/22/2015 8:21:40 AM EDT
[#15]
I don't shoot copper washed, steel jacketed, lead core bi-metal bullets in my high precision pistols because it will reduce their accuracy.
http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 |
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Posted: 6/22/2015 8:33:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless you plan on full auto dumping thousands of rounds in a single session, you will not notice the difference. Shoot whatever you want. If you wear out a pistol barrel, congratulate yourself at having the time and money to do so. Depends on one's definition of "wearing out a barrel". Precision shooters, both rifle and pistol, will notice the difference; whereas people who "blast away" may not. |
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Posted: 6/23/2015 10:23:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That particular ammunition was harder on the barrels. I personally think the powder did it in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Check out Lucky Gunners steel-cased, bi-metallic ammo test. Yea, they're "harder" on the barrel, but more economical in the long run. That particular ammunition was harder on the barrels. I personally think the powder did it in. Possibly, but it seems cheap bullets loaded with cheap powder go hand-in-hand. Lucky Gunner's test may have been slightly misleading, because most of the rounds fired were fired through very hot barrels. It may be that the wear rate would have been slower had they shot at a more normal rate of fire most of us would have. My opinion - Russia needs to cut their ammo prices to make it worth it. When you can buy copper jacketed Wolf gold for 30 cents a shot, why on Earth would you pay 27 cents a shot for steel jacketed crap powder steel cased ammo? At 20 cents a shot, I'd start thinking about it. But for 3 cents savings? I think the Lucky Gunner cost analysis is way off for 2015. The savings isn't there, forget steel ammo. As to people thinking soft steel is just as soft as copper - yea.. you can't borrow any of my stuff. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:07:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Possibly, but it seems cheap bullets loaded with cheap powder go hand-in-hand. Lucky Gunner's test may have been slightly misleading, because most of the rounds fired were fired through very hot barrels. It may be that the wear rate would have been slower had they shot at a more normal rate of fire most of us would have. My opinion - Russia needs to cut their ammo prices to make it worth it. When you can buy copper jacketed Wolf gold for 30 cents a shot, why on Earth would you pay 27 cents a shot for steel jacketed crap powder steel cased ammo? At 20 cents a shot, I'd start thinking about it. But for 3 cents savings? I think the Lucky Gunner cost analysis is way off for 2015. The savings isn't there, forget steel ammo. As to people thinking soft steel is just as soft as copper - yea.. you can't borrow any of my stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Check out Lucky Gunners steel-cased, bi-metallic ammo test. Yea, they're "harder" on the barrel, but more economical in the long run. That particular ammunition was harder on the barrels. I personally think the powder did it in. Possibly, but it seems cheap bullets loaded with cheap powder go hand-in-hand. Lucky Gunner's test may have been slightly misleading, because most of the rounds fired were fired through very hot barrels. It may be that the wear rate would have been slower had they shot at a more normal rate of fire most of us would have. My opinion - Russia needs to cut their ammo prices to make it worth it. When you can buy copper jacketed Wolf gold for 30 cents a shot, why on Earth would you pay 27 cents a shot for steel jacketed crap powder steel cased ammo? At 20 cents a shot, I'd start thinking about it. But for 3 cents savings? I think the Lucky Gunner cost analysis is way off for 2015. The savings isn't there, forget steel ammo. As to people thinking soft steel is just as soft as copper - yea.. you can't borrow any of my stuff. You can still save money on rifle rounds, but agreed not as much as in the Lucky Gunner article. Difference of about 5-8 cpr. For 9mm, the difference is only a few cents per shot as you posted. I shoot all copper jacketed except AK ammo now, but for slightly different reasons - I shoot other non-AR rifles more. The barrel replacement cost is more like $800 in those guns. I've also noticed a substantial accuracy difference as well. For a few cents per round difference on 9mm, I noticed my groups are half the size. |
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Posted: 6/24/2015 11:12:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Right now AIM is selling steel for $.21 per round and brass for $.31 a round. I haven't seen brass for significantly less than $300 per K and steel has been at about $200 per K for some time. So the savings are still in the realm of $.10 per round.
I also don't really shoot steel 5.56/.223 any more, either, just due to the poor accuracy. |
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