http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n593/Neil_Mamaril/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpgHi all, new here.  Will post pics from my phone in a sec.  

Anyway,
just started reloading (9mm) and following the reloading guides as much as possible, I find that certain bullet types are not listed in these "complete guides" so here's basically the breakdown.

Get 3 guides for reloading.

Set up bench.

Get components 115gr HAP hornady, small pistol primers, 700x powder.

Find recipe which lists 700x as 3.6gr STARTING to 4.4gr MAX for a 115 RN FMJ.  

Think, "cool, I'll just go with 3.6 and make up to 4.0"

Get to the range with my 100 rds of reloading ammunition and find that literally none of it wants to cycle the good old Glock 17.  the 4.0's cycled about 60% but never locked the slide rearward at the last shot.

So I look online and see that a lot of people are loading far, far over 4.4gr which was listed as MAX, I mean into the 5.4gr zone.

So I'm wondering, is this normal for reloading?  You worry and worry and worry, just to find out that you basically need to take a formula and boost it by 35%+ just to get it to work?  

I mean, what happens when I start loading 7.62x39?  .308 WIN?  Should I expect similar results and just boost right off the bat?  What do YOU do?

Formulas drawn from Lyman's, Hornady, and the 9mm loading guide seen at most gun shops.

found a load that works!  4.6 -5.2gr 700x 115gr Hornady HAP. COL 1.060 4.6 -5 was outstanding.  Accurate and reliable.  5.2 was heavy on the palm but still doable, and had considerable muzzle flash .  Shot from both a G19 and 17 gen 4

This is what happens when reloading manuals get too conservative. They're like:" OMG he might blow up the gun if he goes one tenth of a grain too much." What manual do you have (never mind)? it's always best to start light and work your way up, but realize that none of these loadings are +P. Most guns will take +Ps but most reloading data won't give that information out.

Do you adhere to the over all length of the cartridge? I always run mine long, like 1.135. Maximum is 1.169, suggested is 1.125.

I've always used the old, load ten of one powder weight, load ten of another weight, load ten of another and so forth up to maximum.

Invest in a bullet puller, you'll need it.

Lyman uses test barrels, not actual guns. While this will give you a good idea on pressure, it won't tell you if it will cycle in your gun.

Good idea about using a manual that is the same as the bullets you're using.

Make up ten cartridges of 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4 and label them as such. STOP shooting if your cases get bulged or other pressure signs.

Have you thrown a check weight on your scale lately? I ran into that recently.

Bullet Puller, scale, proper lighting, correct bullet/brass/powder/primers for the job, know how to use your press and set dies correctly.

When I first started to reload I checked every other 10th case on gr to see if it was metering well, some powders meter differently than others so don't assume every powder will be coming out the same amount. Ask around locally or check the reloading forum for more Q&A

Many vids and guides on youtube for certain presses that can get you started, remember to be safe when reloading.

OAL I'm using 1.060-1.070 IAW the "complete 9mm reloading guide" as crosschecked with the Lyman guide, and only .010" longer than hornady's regular 115grn hollowpoint specs.

Bullet puller, copy.  I'm already seeing it as needed, but I just blew a ton of money on more bullets.  this stuff is addicting.

Test barrels, those bastards.

I mean, I was "trying" to be smart, but I'm thinking full retard is the way to go from now on honestly.

No case bulging yet....  1/175 cases get a smushed sidewall in my sizing die, however.



Yeah, I zero before every run.  I randomly Q'A'd 10 rds of similar hollow point factory ammo, as a complete cartridge, bullet pulled, bullet along, empty case + primer, and empty case without primer.  My data was matching up to +/- 1.2grn (I know that's a lot but my cases vary +\- 1.2grn just by themselves)  I also QA'd my own rounds at random stages, everything was all peaches and gravy the whole time, but when the big show started my rounds just kinda rappelled from the ceiling and died on the wrestling mat.

Couple of things come to my mind about your situation .

9MM is a fairly small capacity case , with most powders your results will change quite a bit when setting bullets to different depths .

A FMJ bullet will be quite a bit longer than a HP of the same weight . If you are loading to nearly the same over all length the fmj is actually further into the case and taking up more room which will tend to make the load "hotter"

Bullets of the same weight may react in a similar fashion but being shaped differently they have different amounts of friction and start moving
differently and this will change how the powder burns.

I agree with some of the posters here that printed load sources tend to be conservative ( for safety sake ) but if you proceed with the thought that is always going to be the case you will come to grief some where down the line.

Reading between the lines in a reloading manual has its risks to begin with , loading up a 100 rounds of any load without testing is just asking for trouble

So this is run of the mill stuff then.  When purchasing a bullet and using a powder, you honestly don't know what you're going to get, so start safe, and safely move up?  Make notes on what works, for THAT PARTICULAR COMBINATION and if anything changes, start the process again?  I went into it thinking there wouldn't be this much tinkering involved.  I mean, between setting up the press IAW the videos and manuals, then RESETTING IT so it actually works and testing load data it's actually A LOT of R&D.  I figured it was going to be like..
1.Set up press
2. look up recipe
3. test and compare as neccesary
4. follow the recipe
5. infinite ammo cheat activated.

I have found reloads that run a 9mm 1911, beretta or sig would not run my glock until I got near max.
I would never suggest running well over max. What is frequently found however is maximum loads that vary widely based on source. As an example the powder company may say max load is 6 grains for a given bullet weight but then reference the bullet companies data and it says 5.5 is max.
Also a manual printed today may say 6 max but a ten or twenty year old manual may say 7. As long as I have at least two credible sources for a particular max load and am loading well under that max I am ok. I generally do as you have done running middle of the road loads which has worked for everything for me for the last thirty years reloading. The only time I have had to push near max was for a glock

I looked at the old Lyman book yesterday while down in the basement. Max load is 4.5 grains of 700X. The Sierra manual (which I really like)  lists 5.0 grains of 700X. Although these loads are well within the +P range, they are also much shorter than I would load (1.075 - 1.090). Like I said, I like my bullets LONG, that way if the get pushed back in to the case there will be no harmful effects.

I once made the mistake of loading .380 ammo on my press. I used a carbide .223 die for the sizing and .223 shell plate and used the 9mm stuff for the rest. Did I say I like to load my bullets LONG? After reloading some .380 ammo, I switched back to 9mm. I loaded up about 200 rounds before I realized that the bullets were set too deep in the cases (easy to do on a Dillon 650). Although the bullets were well within tolerance for a 9mm load, I pulled some of the bullets I made, re adjusted the seating die dumped the powder and loaded them again at my length (1.135). The few bullets I forgot to do this to were shot out of my Uzi. The made nice tight groups at 100 yards. but really kicked through the shoulder stock. They worked, but I wasn't happy with the length.

I usually check my powder charges before reloading. during reloading and after reloading is done. That way you can account for the powder that is lost in your hopper. As you reload, the powder level goes down. As the powder level goes down, there is less pressure pressing down on the powder so you will throw lighter charges the more you reload. When I top off the primers every two times, I usually top off the powder too.

Use heavier bullets. You're loading a light plinking load with light plinking bullets, shouldn't be surprised that it lacks momentum to reliably cycle.

115 grain is nominal for the 9x19 round. If he were loading 88 or 95 grain bullets that MIGHT be too light.

Also you could try a slightly longer burning powder, like Power Pistol or Unique.

Handloading, when done correctly, will always require each user to conduct tests and work up to a safe and effective load recipe for a set of components.  That's just the nature of the beast, and the only safe way to find out how your loads work in your firearms.  The loading manuals are sets of compiled data obtained through others conducting similar testing using their equipment.  It's to be taken only as a guide to plan a safe range of loading with a particular set of components, but the fine tuning for what works for you is found through your own testing.



If you haven't already, swing over to our Reloading Forum.  Lots of good info and helpful threads there.  



 

Thanks for the replies guys, might be the friendliest people on the forum, helpful too!  I've taken positive measures (see what I did there?) to ensure I take advantage of all the suggestions.

I too found 2 resources saying that 700x is MAX at 5.0gr with 115JHP and have loaded a sample to that data.

We will have to wait for this weekend to see if my study and your advice pays!

Topping powder when filling primers?  GENIOUS.  That should be in every loading book.

Just remember when I'm pissing you off in the AR side of the house for speaking about how amazing 7.62x39 ARs are that I'm not actually a bad guy!

Pics for clicks

http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n593/Neil_Mamaril/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg

The standard bullet mass of 9 mm has been 8 grams / 124 grains since 1902. 115 is light, 95 is ultra light. A light load with a light bullet can unsurprisingly have trouble cycling a recoil-operated firearm.

found a load that works!  4.6 -5.2gr 700x 115gr Hornady HAP. COL 1.060 4.6 -5 was outstanding.  Accurate and reliable.  5.2 was heavy on the palm but still doable, and had considerable muzzle flash .  Shot from both a G19 and 17 gen 4

Way too stoked to begin my .357 R&D tomorrow, and get up to 7.62NATO eventually!  Thanks for all the help!

Pressure curves on powder are not linear once you get close to or over max on some powders, the pressure spikes really high with each .1 grain you go up.  Going full retard may blow up your gun, fingers, eyes, etc.  700x is a fast powder, be really careful with it.  As a beginner, you should be using a slower powder.

Yep, this is VERY true. I only load with powders that will almost fill the cases. That way if there is a double charge, it will spill out of the case.

You're also right about the pressure curves. .1 grain too much and BOOM (and not in a good way). Bullet seating length is important too. .030 too low and the pressure shoots up to 65,000 PSI. Now a .460 S&W can handle that kind of pressure, but a 9x19mm won't.

Starting data is a puzzle.
The guy who taught me suggested buying THREE good quality reloading manuals and then carefully studying the load data in each one.
DON'T even consult the data that comes on the side of the powder jars.  In fact, pretty much stick to the data provided by the bullet manufacturers.
I started out with: Hornady, Speer, and Sierra.  I have found the Sierra book to be the most useful overall, but there's good data in the Hornady book, too.  The Speer book is okay, but I use it more as a "check" against which to gauge the data from the other two.  
The Sierra and Hornady books both give charge weights corollated to the specific velocities that they achieved in THEIR test gun.  Alway remember, YMMV (in fact, it almost certainly WILL).
But I never really got totally on top of this until I started using a chronograph.  For me, my chrony has become an indispensable reloading tool....but in the final analysis, it isn't totally necessary.  My friend who taught me was a very good reloader and he never used one at any time in his long reloading career.  He WAS a dedicated student of cartridges, however and never tired of studying; powders, pressures, bullets, etc.  

Didn't see if anyone said get a chrono but GET A CHRONO!!   Without it your just guessing. You will find that the loading data is more of a guide than chiseled in stone. And your gun is different from the one they used in the testing for the data.