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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:22:47 AM EDT
[#1]
When we carried revolvers, we trained with .38 special semi wadcutters and qualified with .357 magnum. When we switched to grenades (Glock 22), we trained and qualified with hollow points -- 180 gr subsonic.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:36:39 AM EDT
[#2]
It varies from department to department. I get some that buy the cheapest ammo available for qualifications and others that use only the same as their duty ammo. Some even use cheap stuff to start but finish the qualification score part with duty ammo.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:51:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Ours is generally training with FMJ, and carry Federal HST. Unless they need to cycle the ammo, then it's shoot what's in the gun.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:54:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ours is generally training with FMJ, and carry Federal HST. Unless they need to cycle the ammo, then it's shoot what's in the gun. This |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 1:34:31 AM EDT
[#5]
^ this
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Posted: 8/9/2014 1:36:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Yes.
Open Range days & Office Days it's 100~200 rounds of FMJ American Eagle. Quals are with Winchester Ranger +P+ 127GR HP. 7mm |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 4:07:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Train with FMJ.
Swap in new duty ammo (Federal Tactical .40) once a year and shoot up the old stuff. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 7:57:53 AM EDT
[#8]
We shoot up our duty ammo during qualification, supplementing with ballistic equivalent as needed once it's gone.
Off-duty/backup guns get fed whatever you bring for it (supposed to be what you carry or ballistic equivalent). |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 3:29:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Everywhere I worked it was the cheapest crap the chief could find unless you wanted to use your own.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 3:40:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ours is generally training with FMJ, and carry Federal HST. Unless they need to cycle the ammo, then it's shoot what's in the gun. +1 |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 7:59:37 PM EDT
[#11]
When we qualify, we start out shooting up what is in the gun (HP duty ammo) then use FMJ for the rest of the qual course. We used to use reloads; a couple yers ago, the place we bought our reloads from closed (Mastercast in Enon Valley, PA; EXCELLENT commercially reloaded ammo), Now, we buy our ammo (HP, FMJ and shotgun) on the Ohio State Bid and pay about as much for factory ammo as we did for the reloads. After quals, we issue new duty ammo.
Shotguns, since the entire course is only 7 or 8 rds, we just shoot the same 00 Buck as we carry. The local Sheriff's Dept, and quite a few other neighboring Depts, use the same ammo to qualify as they carry. Just depends on the Dept and how much they allocate for money for ammo. Bub75 |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:57:32 PM EDT
[#12]
WAAAAY back when I was a corrections officer, we used to qualify with our duty loads. This was 158 grain lead round nose in .38 Special. In the last couple of years we started qualifying with the FBI Load (158 grain lead, semi wad cutter, hollow point in +P). Never saw it put into issue guns though. When I started all we had in the guns were five rounds and no reload. Now we can actually carry six and have two speed loaders too!
Some day when they invent directed energy weapons (i.e. "phasers"), we may actually get semi autos and jacketed hollow point bullets! |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:48:44 AM EDT
[#13]
We shoot the 30 or 45 issued rounds from the previous year, plus 15 or 30 FMJs to bring it up to 60 rounds, then get issued 30 or 45 new RA40B. Sometimes, anyway. The last two years I've been given 60 rounds of FMJ and told there was no money for duty ammo and to keep what I was issued in '11. For off duty and backup guns we bring our own, and no one cares what we use. For instance, this year I brought my S&W 640-1 and 37-2 as backup guns, thinking that, as in past years, I would qualify with one and not have to shoot the other (identical functions,) but learned that the policy had changed and we had to shoot each individual weapon. Since I had only brought enough FMJ to shoot one, I had to use carry ammo for the other one. I was five rounds short of carry ammo for the course with the 37, but the RO agreed to let me forfeit ten points and shoot the course with it anyway.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:11:07 AM EDT
[#14]
These guys train with hallow points. Pretty much everyone else uses FMJ.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 12:47:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I've seen Feds bring Winchester Rangers to USPSA matches (with permission). Local LE can't always do that.
Without FET and in bulk the price difference between hollow points and ball is minimal. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 8:01:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Local sheriff dpt uses fmj or old hps. Local ice agents get hst for practice and carry.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 9:04:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Some places ( my home state of ny is an example) states a qual has to be shot with duty ammo. For practice they will use fmj. In the autos these days it really doesn't matter but the rule started ( maybe even changed by now) when they were shooting target wadcutters to qual then issue 357 mag for street use- there were some bad results because of it.
I imagine the vast majority of pd's use lowest bidder fmj for training / practice and issue jhp for the street and maybe the qual |
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Posted: 8/11/2014 10:26:21 AM EDT
[#18]
ours is nothing more than a 50rnd yearly qualification. we qualify with the same rounds we carry and they give us a new box each year. anything beyond that is on our own.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These guys train with hallow points. Pretty much everyone else uses FMJ. http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/joshua_aston/BECE9541-916D-47B5-9885-58F90A1481AF_zps6uyeav30.jpg I think they just use halberds. -Sterling Archer. NOTHING beats ammo blessed by the pope!! |
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Posted: 8/12/2014 1:23:52 PM EDT
[#20]
The agency I work for uses FMJ during their quarterly qualifications and they do an annual qualifictation with their duty ammo (federal 230 grain HST+P).
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Posted: 8/12/2014 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These guys train with hallow points. Pretty much everyone else uses FMJ. http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww337/joshua_aston/BECE9541-916D-47B5-9885-58F90A1481AF_zps6uyeav30.jpg War Eagle!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:01:21 PM EDT
[#22]
We used to qualify strictly with hollow points. Now, we use a "clean" range and use frangible ammo. When we use the outdoor range we still use hollow points. We're usually at the range at least once a month and fire 300-400 rounds per session. We used to shoot much more.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 2:43:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We used to qualify strictly with hollow points. Now, we use a "clean" range and use frangible ammo. When we use the outdoor range we still use hollow points. We're usually at the range at least once a month and fire 300-400 rounds per session. We used to shoot much more. Lucky bastard. My Dept, and a lot of others around here, only shoot the State mandated qual course once a year. Ohio completely redid the qual course a couple years ago. It is now 25 rds. 25 stupid rounds! We shoot it twice in a row (once for practice, once for the record) for a total of 50 rds/YEAR!!!! Provided, of course, they pass the first time. Because of budget cuts, the Dept no longer provides any ammo at all for additional practice, so anyone who wants to shoot more has to do it on their own time and their own dime for ammo. Cops are notoriously cheap people, so almost no one at my PD shoots more than the mandated 50 rds/year. I'm one of the few that shoots for a hobby. And everyone in the Admin wonders just exactly why scores are going down every year and more and more people have to reshoot the course! Bub75 |
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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:02:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We shoot up our duty ammo during qualification, supplementing with ballistic equivalent as needed once it's gone. Off-duty/backup guns get fed whatever you bring for it (supposed to be what you carry or ballistic equivalent). I train and qual with NATO ball and carry +P HSTs. Recoil is very similar and they are quite close to the same POI. |
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Posted: 8/15/2014 4:05:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Back in the late 90`s when I shot with the ISP they used hydra shok 124gr +p+
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Posted: 8/15/2014 4:11:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We shoot the 30 or 45 issued rounds from the previous year, plus 15 or 30 FMJs to bring it up to 60 rounds, then get issued 30 or 45 new RA40B. Sometimes, anyway. The last two years I've been given 60 rounds of FMJ and told there was no money for duty ammo and to keep what I was issued in '11. For off duty and backup guns we bring our own, and no one cares what we use. For instance, this year I brought my S&W 640-1 and 37-2 as backup guns, thinking that, as in past years, I would qualify with one and not have to shoot the other (identical functions,) but learned that the policy had changed and we had to shoot each individual weapon. Since I had only brought enough FMJ to shoot one, I had to use carry ammo for the other one. I was five rounds short of carry ammo for the course with the 37, but the RO agreed to let me forfeit ten points and shoot the course with it anyway. My first J frame was a Model 37 Like a fool I sold it. Don't they weigh even less than a AW M642-2 today ? I think the M642-2 weighs around 15oz Totally get why you brought the M640-1. I wish I could carry one in my pocket if so I would give up the M642 |
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Posted: 8/17/2014 2:56:23 AM EDT
[#27]
We qualify with issued hollow points once a year. It's a 60 round course. We start by shooting our guns dry with duty ammo in them then finish with the extra we were issued last year. After qual we reload mags and get 100 rounds extra for our patrol bags.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 3:47:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ours is generally training with FMJ, and carry Federal HST. Unless they need to cycle the ammo, then it's shoot what's in the gun. Same, although we seem to buy different HP ammo whenever we replace it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2014 7:41:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Both: Depends upon the agency, the budget and the direction training happens to headed that year.
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Posted: 8/24/2014 12:08:19 AM EDT
[#30]
My local police train and qulify with American Eagle and carry HST.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:50:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Typically FMJ but we shoot off our duty rounds (Win Ranger 180) about once per year. Apparently, the Feds only give out JHP duty rounds. I will see them show up at matches or informal shoots with high dollar duty ammo. I used to beg and trade them my FMJ for Hydra Shoks and Ranger T duty ammo. Also, Feds commonly hand off cases of duty ammo (rifle and pistol) to our SWAT guys. The feds are given cases of duty ammo each per year and the non-shooters dont have any more room in their trunks...
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Posted: 8/31/2014 6:36:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My first J frame was a Model 37 Like a fool I sold it. Don't they weigh even less than a AW M642-2 today ? I think the M642-2 weighs around 15oz Totally get why you brought the M640-1. I wish I could carry one in my pocket if so I would give up the M642 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We shoot the 30 or 45 issued rounds from the previous year, plus 15 or 30 FMJs to bring it up to 60 rounds, then get issued 30 or 45 new RA40B. Sometimes, anyway. The last two years I've been given 60 rounds of FMJ and told there was no money for duty ammo and to keep what I was issued in '11. For off duty and backup guns we bring our own, and no one cares what we use. For instance, this year I brought my S&W 640-1 and 37-2 as backup guns, thinking that, as in past years, I would qualify with one and not have to shoot the other (identical functions,) but learned that the policy had changed and we had to shoot each individual weapon. Since I had only brought enough FMJ to shoot one, I had to use carry ammo for the other one. I was five rounds short of carry ammo for the course with the 37, but the RO agreed to let me forfeit ten points and shoot the course with it anyway. My first J frame was a Model 37 Like a fool I sold it. Don't they weigh even less than a AW M642-2 today ? I think the M642-2 weighs around 15oz Totally get why you brought the M640-1. I wish I could carry one in my pocket if so I would give up the M642 I'm actually not sure what it weighs. It is not the old 37-2 though, it is one of the Japanese police overruns from '08, with their special order of DAO, no MIM and no safety lock. Pretty dang light I will say. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 7:01:48 PM EDT
[#33]
When buying in bulk, duty is about as cheap as FMJ. It's not a cost saver as you have to buy and track/ship multiple types of ammo. On a big scale, it's often more economical to simplify to one type...plus you get realistic training.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:43:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lucky bastard. My Dept, and a lot of others around here, only shoot the State mandated qual course once a year. Ohio completely redid the qual course a couple years ago. It is now 25 rds. 25 stupid rounds! We shoot it twice in a row (once for practice, once for the record) for a total of 50 rds/YEAR!!!! Provided, of course, they pass the first time. Because of budget cuts, the Dept no longer provides any ammo at all for additional practice, so anyone who wants to shoot more has to do it on their own time and their own dime for ammo. Cops are notoriously cheap people, so almost no one at my PD shoots more than the mandated 50 rds/year. I'm one of the few that shoots for a hobby. And everyone in the Admin wonders just exactly why scores are going down every year and more and more people have to reshoot the course! Bub75 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We used to qualify strictly with hollow points. Now, we use a "clean" range and use frangible ammo. When we use the outdoor range we still use hollow points. We're usually at the range at least once a month and fire 300-400 rounds per session. We used to shoot much more. Lucky bastard. My Dept, and a lot of others around here, only shoot the State mandated qual course once a year. Ohio completely redid the qual course a couple years ago. It is now 25 rds. 25 stupid rounds! We shoot it twice in a row (once for practice, once for the record) for a total of 50 rds/YEAR!!!! Provided, of course, they pass the first time. Because of budget cuts, the Dept no longer provides any ammo at all for additional practice, so anyone who wants to shoot more has to do it on their own time and their own dime for ammo. Cops are notoriously cheap people, so almost no one at my PD shoots more than the mandated 50 rds/year. I'm one of the few that shoots for a hobby. And everyone in the Admin wonders just exactly why scores are going down every year and more and more people have to reshoot the course! Bub75 I could not echo this any better... I'm a big believer the 60rd course needs reinstated... We shoot our old HP's through the course and if we want to shoot more we provide for ourselves. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 6:09:46 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I could not echo this any better... I'm a big believer the 60rd course needs reinstated... We shoot our old HP's through the course and if we want to shoot more we provide for ourselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to qualify strictly with hollow points. Now, we use a "clean" range and use frangible ammo. When we use the outdoor range we still use hollow points. We're usually at the range at least once a month and fire 300-400 rounds per session. We used to shoot much more. Lucky bastard. My Dept, and a lot of others around here, only shoot the State mandated qual course once a year. Ohio completely redid the qual course a couple years ago. It is now 25 rds. 25 stupid rounds! We shoot it twice in a row (once for practice, once for the record) for a total of 50 rds/YEAR!!!! Provided, of course, they pass the first time. Because of budget cuts, the Dept no longer provides any ammo at all for additional practice, so anyone who wants to shoot more has to do it on their own time and their own dime for ammo. Cops are notoriously cheap people, so almost no one at my PD shoots more than the mandated 50 rds/year. I'm one of the few that shoots for a hobby. And everyone in the Admin wonders just exactly why scores are going down every year and more and more people have to reshoot the course! Bub75 I could not echo this any better... I'm a big believer the 60rd course needs reinstated... We shoot our old HP's through the course and if we want to shoot more we provide for ourselves. THats nuts. Its a clear failure to train lawsuit just like the numerous examples where Departments lost bigtime in court for not providing training. The courts have clearly said that Qual is not training and that training must be recent, realistic, and relevant to the duties of the person involved. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:37:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THats nuts. Its a clear failure to train lawsuit just like the numerous examples where Departments lost bigtime in court for not providing training. The courts have clearly said that Qual is not training and that training must be recent, realistic, and relevant to the duties of the person involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to qualify strictly with hollow points. Now, we use a "clean" range and use frangible ammo. When we use the outdoor range we still use hollow points. We're usually at the range at least once a month and fire 300-400 rounds per session. We used to shoot much more. Lucky bastard. My Dept, and a lot of others around here, only shoot the State mandated qual course once a year. Ohio completely redid the qual course a couple years ago. It is now 25 rds. 25 stupid rounds! We shoot it twice in a row (once for practice, once for the record) for a total of 50 rds/YEAR!!!! Provided, of course, they pass the first time. Because of budget cuts, the Dept no longer provides any ammo at all for additional practice, so anyone who wants to shoot more has to do it on their own time and their own dime for ammo. Cops are notoriously cheap people, so almost no one at my PD shoots more than the mandated 50 rds/year. I'm one of the few that shoots for a hobby. And everyone in the Admin wonders just exactly why scores are going down every year and more and more people have to reshoot the course! Bub75 I could not echo this any better... I'm a big believer the 60rd course needs reinstated... We shoot our old HP's through the course and if we want to shoot more we provide for ourselves. THats nuts. Its a clear failure to train lawsuit just like the numerous examples where Departments lost bigtime in court for not providing training. The courts have clearly said that Qual is not training and that training must be recent, realistic, and relevant to the duties of the person involved. You're preaching to the choir brother. For the past four years our dept has refused us to use our own range for anything other than quals when they've allowed private ccw classes to be held on our range. It was just last year Ohio switched to the 25 rd course of fire, that was down from 60 rd. Why they did it? MONEY...root of all training evil. And when I say we could only qual, basically if you are proficient you shoot once and leave...25 rds and you're done. It's sad... |
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