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Posted: 8/8/2014 12:53:21 AM EDT
[#1]
To be simple, a bad guy would not know the difference whatsoever.
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Posted: 8/8/2014 12:55:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be simple, a bad guy would not know the difference whatsoever. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:40:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Just pick one and make sure they function in your gun and you're g2g Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be simple, a bad guy would not know the difference whatsoever. Lol that's what I was thinking. ETA: I am running ranger t ammo currently, but that sorta tough to find at the moment unlike gold dots and HST's. Gold dots are slightly cheaper right now. Haha |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 1:50:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be simple, a bad guy would not know the difference whatsoever. Pretty much. The Gold Dot is bonded and will perform slightly better when passing through intermediate barriers. The HST will open up somewhat larger at the sacrifice of some barrier performance. Either meet the FBI/IWBA test criteria and I would feel fine carrying either. I generally prefer Gold Dots as they are available as components. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 2:08:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Well while this is being discussed does anyone have any leads on ranger t in 45?
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Posted: 8/8/2014 2:47:39 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 8/8/2014 3:08:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote Historythanks! I was hoping for it by the case. When the hell did they change the packaging? The stuff I still have has the tan boxes |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 4:32:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Both are top quality rounds and have performed well in the testing we've done on gel and barriers.
Reliability test your gun with 100-200 and you're good to go. Where you place them will be far more important than the brand name you pick |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 9:07:24 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm going to be different than the norm here.
With that being said. Dude if you ain't got HST in your weapon your a goner That bad guy is going to laugh at you when you hit him with Gold Dots. I've heard that bad guys have built up an immunity to Gold Dots and they have no effect on them now. LOL No serious either are top notch but I shoot HST. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 3:00:04 PM EDT
[#10]
I had to really like that last post.
Granted, Gold Dots are bonded (technically plated), but HST have a cannelure that keeps the lead and jacket together. Either one will serve you well, although your chances of finding Gold Dots are better than HST. At least now they are actually offering HST to the public, where as before it was only for LE. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 3:53:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Somebody please school me a little on this. HST's are not bonded correct? But somehow they act a whole lot like bondeds, in their construction, and retention, correct? Or at least that is some of what I read. So who knows.
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Posted: 8/8/2014 7:23:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Like I said before. They have a cannelure to prevent the lead from separating from the jacket (a la Golden Saber). A cannelure is a ring of the jacket material that has been pressed into the gilding metal to form a lock on the core of the bullet. Most cannelures are used to crimp the case to the bullet, but since the auto pistols head space on the case mouth, you can't roll crimp the bullets into the cannelure. Instead the cannelure is used to lock the lead core into the gilding metal jacket to keep it from separating during expansion.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 1:19:03 AM EDT
[#13]
The reality with these modern loads is it often takes digital calipers to measure the difference between the best performing and the worst performing load in a given caliber.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 12:06:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reality with these modern loads is it often takes digital calipers to measure the difference between the best performing and the worst performing load in a given caliber. We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. |
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Posted: 8/17/2014 11:56:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The reality with these modern loads is it often takes digital calipers to measure the difference between the best performing and the worst performing load in a given caliber. We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Still nothing wrong with it IMHO. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 12:30:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Word on the street is the cop in Ferguson Missouri had Gold Dote in his gun for the first five rounds and then there was an HST as the last round fired that stopped Big Mike.
LOL, couldn't resist. |
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:47:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Word on the street is the cop in Ferguson Missouri had Gold Dote in his gun for the first five rounds and then there was an HST as the last round fired that stopped Big Mike. LOL, couldn't resist.  I'll admit i did chuckle but it may be to soon for that one.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 9:40:33 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
So not trying to start a pissing match but I was wondering which is better for daily carry in 45? I have used gold dots (in 40) for along time and I know a lot of the PD's use them as well but I am wondering if switching to the HST really does anything better than the gold dot? So like I said, without the pissing match what does the hive think about the two rounds? Any reason I should pay more for the HST, since I know that both are proven rounds? Thanks everyone. I think the HST 45ACP will expand more also it passes the AG test. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 9:41:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The reality with these modern loads is it often takes digital calipers to measure the difference between the best performing and the worst performing load in a given caliber. We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. I thought it was the FBI load 158gr SWC H.P. in 38spl +P |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:21:57 AM EDT
[#20]
I wish I could find either brand in 147 flavor
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Posted: 8/21/2014 12:36:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Quoted:
Still nothing wrong with it IMHO. I'm not saying it is a bad load, I'm just saying that was the top performing load available period. Now you can walk into any gun shop and find a ton of ammo that meets or exceeds its performance. FWIW my mom still carries that in her SP101. Truthfully if I carried a J frame I'd probably load it with the FBI load. Quoted:
I thought it was the FBI load 158gr SWC H.P. in 38spl +P You are correct, I just didn't specify exactly. I was under the impression that no one reads what I post anyway.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 9:52:12 AM EDT
[#22]
I would go with either as both perform well.
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Posted: 8/30/2014 12:41:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much. The Gold Dot is bonded and will perform slightly better when passing through intermediate barriers. The HST will open up somewhat larger at the sacrifice of some barrier performance. Either meet the FBI/IWBA test criteria and I would feel fine carrying either. I generally prefer Gold Dots as they are available as components. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To be simple, a bad guy would not know the difference whatsoever. Pretty much. The Gold Dot is bonded and will perform slightly better when passing through intermediate barriers. The HST will open up somewhat larger at the sacrifice of some barrier performance. Either meet the FBI/IWBA test criteria and I would feel fine carrying either. I generally prefer Gold Dots as they are available as components. This is exactly what I came here to say, especially the last part. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:16:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not saying it is a bad load, I'm just saying that was the top performing load available period. Now you can walk into any gun shop and find a ton of ammo that meets or exceeds its performance. FWIW my mom still carries that in her SP101. Truthfully if I carried a J frame I'd probably load it with the FBI load. You are correct, I just didn't specify exactly. I was under the impression that no one reads what I post anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We live in a good time for defensive ammo. It wasn't that long ago that a 158 gr LSWC was considered top of the line. Quoted:
Still nothing wrong with it IMHO. I'm not saying it is a bad load, I'm just saying that was the top performing load available period. Now you can walk into any gun shop and find a ton of ammo that meets or exceeds its performance. FWIW my mom still carries that in her SP101. Truthfully if I carried a J frame I'd probably load it with the FBI load. Quoted:
I thought it was the FBI load 158gr SWC H.P. in 38spl +P You are correct, I just didn't specify exactly. I was under the impression that no one reads what I post anyway. LOL I do because you have good info |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 10:46:01 PM EDT
[#25]
HST's have awesome expansion.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:30:03 AM EDT
[#26]
I cycle my SD ammo every year and purchase either one—whatever is available at the time. But they are the only two makes I use. You can sleep well with either one, IMHO.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:40:21 PM EDT
[#27]
I keep 124+P Gold Dot in my 9mms , maybe a 147 SXT here and there, the 40s get 165-180gr Gold Dot/ Winchester bonded, and the G30 gets 230 Gold Dot or HST.
I'm good with all of it. Hell, in my 1911s, I'm ok with 230 ball too. Though I know it isn't the best. Modern JHP for the win. Eta staring at a HST 230 gr .45 is like looking into a big ass volcano. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#28]
I have tested both in 9mm into wet phone books, and milk jugs full of water and collected the rounds afterwards. The HSTs expand EXACTLY like their picture on the box, WICKED nasty sharp. The gold dots kinda mushroom in a glob of rounded out lead.
IMHO, that's MY humble opinion, I have chosen to carry the HSTs. Simply put, I would prefer to do the greater damage these things are capable of. I run 147 gr, NON +p rounds and have never had an issue with them in both of my FNX9s. Without looking at my shooting log, I have about 6k rounds between the two guns, with nary a hiccup. das all.... jack |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 11:18:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Gold Dot. Easier name to remember than keeping track of the alphabet soup names.
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Posted: 9/11/2014 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gold Dot. Easier name to remember than keeping track of the alphabet soup names. Now there's a good way to select something your life depends on 
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Posted: 9/11/2014 1:47:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now there's a good way to select something your life depends on Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gold Dot. Easier name to remember than keeping track of the alphabet soup names. Now there's a good way to select something your life depends on Its performance meets FBI protocol first and foremost. It also meets my percieved real world needs. I am not claiming that it will blow the BG's head off if shot in the pinkie vs another brand. Merely saying that among its similarly performing peers that the name is easier to remember than trying to remember if I wanted the extra .002" expansion or penetration of a XTP, FTX, PDX, XDP, HST, HTP, Ranger T/RA45T, Ranger SXT, etc. Sheesh, put down the ps3 and get a life. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 12:48:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its performance meets fails FBI protocol first and foremost for all 9mm rounds except the 147g. It also meets my percieved real world needs. I am not claiming that it will blow the BG's head off if shot in the pinkie vs another brand. Merely saying that among its similarly performing peers that the name is easier to remember than trying to remember if I wanted the extra .002" expansion or penetration of a XTP, FTX, PDX, XDP, HST, HTP, Ranger T/RA45T, Ranger SXT, etc. Sheesh, put down the ps3 and get a life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gold Dot. Easier name to remember than keeping track of the alphabet soup names. Now there's a good way to select something your life depends on Its performance meets fails FBI protocol first and foremost for all 9mm rounds except the 147g. It also meets my percieved real world needs. I am not claiming that it will blow the BG's head off if shot in the pinkie vs another brand. Merely saying that among its similarly performing peers that the name is easier to remember than trying to remember if I wanted the extra .002" expansion or penetration of a XTP, FTX, PDX, XDP, HST, HTP, Ranger T/RA45T, Ranger SXT, etc. Sheesh, put down the ps3 and get a life. Fixed it for you. A long time ago I decided to use Gold Dot in everything, partly becasue it would be easy to remember, name brand "Modern Hollowpoint". Then I really looked at the data for all the rounds and saw that in bare gel the 9mm AND .45 all FAIL FBI penetration requirments (except in the heaviest grain loads). Then I realized that even if I got the heaviest loads, I would be geting pretty average expansion. People fall behind this "Modern Hollowpoint/Modern JHP" mantra and think buying any brand-name JHP is good enough. There are good and bad "Modern Hollowpoints", and MOST of the Gold Dots are bad. That is just a fact. Federal HST also requires you to go heaviest grain but has the absolute best expansion while meeting 12" penetration min. In fact, NOTHING expands better, even the rounds that fail to penetrate 12" (except in 9mm, the lighter HST's do expand a bit more...) Don't just use "Gold Dot" because it is a big time name. If you want Gold Dot, that's fine, just make sure you use the 147g, anything else you are just handicapping yourself. That extra 1/2" (or more) MAY not make a difference, but why CHOOSE inferior performance when you have options????? If ALL I had access to was 115g Gold Dot, I'd prefer that to ball ammo, but I'd be looking around for 147g, and ideally 147g HST..... |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fixed it for you. A long time ago I decided to use Gold Dot in everything, partly becasue it would be easy to remember, name brand "Modern Hollowpoint". Then I really looked at the data for all the rounds and saw that in bare gel the 9mm AND .45 all FAIL FBI penetration requirments (except in the heaviest grain loads). Then I realized that even if I got the heaviest loads, I would be geting pretty average expansion. People fall behind this "Modern Hollowpoint/Modern JHP" mantra and think buying any brand-name JHP is good enough. There are good and bad "Modern Hollowpoints", and MOST of the Gold Dots are bad. That is just a fact. Federal HST also requires you to go heaviest grain but has the absolute best expansion while meeting 12" penetration min. In fact, NOTHING expands better, even the rounds that fail to penetrate 12" (except in 9mm, the lighter HST's do expand a bit more...) Don't just use "Gold Dot" because it is a big time name. If you want Gold Dot, that's fine, just make sure you use the 147g, anything else you are just handicapping yourself. That extra 1/2" (or more) MAY not make a difference, but why CHOOSE inferior performance when you have options????? If ALL I had access to was 115g Gold Dot, I'd prefer that to ball ammo, but I'd be looking around for 147g, and ideally 147g HST..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gold Dot. Easier name to remember than keeping track of the alphabet soup names. Now there's a good way to select something your life depends on Its performance meets fails FBI protocol first and foremost for all 9mm rounds except the 147g. It also meets my percieved real world needs. I am not claiming that it will blow the BG's head off if shot in the pinkie vs another brand. Merely saying that among its similarly performing peers that the name is easier to remember than trying to remember if I wanted the extra .002" expansion or penetration of a XTP, FTX, PDX, XDP, HST, HTP, Ranger T/RA45T, Ranger SXT, etc. Sheesh, put down the ps3 and get a life. Fixed it for you. A long time ago I decided to use Gold Dot in everything, partly becasue it would be easy to remember, name brand "Modern Hollowpoint". Then I really looked at the data for all the rounds and saw that in bare gel the 9mm AND .45 all FAIL FBI penetration requirments (except in the heaviest grain loads). Then I realized that even if I got the heaviest loads, I would be geting pretty average expansion. People fall behind this "Modern Hollowpoint/Modern JHP" mantra and think buying any brand-name JHP is good enough. There are good and bad "Modern Hollowpoints", and MOST of the Gold Dots are bad. That is just a fact. Federal HST also requires you to go heaviest grain but has the absolute best expansion while meeting 12" penetration min. In fact, NOTHING expands better, even the rounds that fail to penetrate 12" (except in 9mm, the lighter HST's do expand a bit more...) Don't just use "Gold Dot" because it is a big time name. If you want Gold Dot, that's fine, just make sure you use the 147g, anything else you are just handicapping yourself. That extra 1/2" (or more) MAY not make a difference, but why CHOOSE inferior performance when you have options????? If ALL I had access to was 115g Gold Dot, I'd prefer that to ball ammo, but I'd be looking around for 147g, and ideally 147g HST..... You are quite right, you can't just expect one brand's bullet sizes and weights to ALL be good just because one works. I usually carry a 1911 in .45acp, the 230gr Gold Dots put out good numbers so thats what I use. To be honest I never looked at the 185 and 200 gr loads because I don't shoot those, big surprise seeing their performance there. I am new to 9mm though, having only picked up a Sig938 this summer. Fun, accurate little pistol. I did my homework, went to the LGS and found a box of HST. Now 124gr and 147gr do great in 9mm, guess what was on the shelf? 135gr HST's. Not such a hot round. I was a lucky to find some 124gr HST's so they were all scooped up. So yeah, Gold Dot works in my 1911, in my preferred caliber. Its not in all my guns, one is full of PDX-1 because thats what works in it, one has Fiocchi XTP bullets in it because PDX-1 in that caliber is crap. I research what will work in that caliber and barrel length but I don't get wrapped around the axle looking for the utmost expansion and penetration if it does what it needs to do- 12-15" penetration and reliable expansion. |
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Posted: 9/12/2014 9:23:27 PM EDT
[#34]
I personally use Gold Dots because I can find them most everywhere and last i checked they haven't gotten any less deadly than a couple years ago when they were the bee's knees.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 1:31:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People fall behind this "Modern Hollowpoint/Modern JHP" mantra and think buying any brand-name JHP is good enough. There are good and bad "Modern Hollowpoints", and MOST of the Gold Dots are bad. That is just a fact. It is a plain point of fact that the heaviest bullets in ANY caliber perform better than lighter ones. Regardless of manufacturer, when buying a modern HP you should choose: 230 grain in the .45acp 147 in the 9mm 180 in the .40. (a case can be made for the 165 in the .40 since the 180s are more likely to blow up guns) 180 or 200 in the 10mm. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 12:31:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...It is a plain point of fact that the heaviest bullets in ANY caliber perform better than lighter ones... I may be nitpicking, but in ballistics discussions I tend to get hesitant about "always", "all", "never", etc. A 350-grain 454 absolutely doesn't perform better on our size deer here in Arkansas than a 240-260 does. An M855 doesn't do better in my carbine than M193. Apples & oranges between defensive calibers, hunting calibers, and rifle calibers; but the crux of my thoughts on it, for whatever it's worth. Similarly (from the few tests I've been able to find), the 124 HST tends to do slightly better than the 147 does from small, pocket-size 9mm's like the CM9 that I personally prefer. By better, I simply mean slightly better penetration; all HST's tend to do VERY well in most every test I've been able to find on them. Not to get into the whole Marshal/Sanow thing (and it's been decades since I read their stuff), but didn't the 125-grain .357mag tend to do better than both the lighter 110 and the heavier 158..? Could be wrong, as I said it's been a long time ago now. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 4:58:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may be nitpicking, but in ballistics discussions I tend to get hesitant about "always", "all", "never", etc. A 350-grain 454 absolutely doesn't perform better on our size deer here in Arkansas than a 240-260 does. An M855 doesn't do better in my carbine than M193. Apples & oranges between defensive calibers, hunting calibers, and rifle calibers; but the crux of my thoughts on it, for whatever it's worth. Similarly (from the few tests I've been able to find), the 124 HST tends to do slightly better than the 147 does from small, pocket-size 9mm's like the CM9 that I personally prefer. By better, I simply mean slightly better penetration; all HST's tend to do VERY well in most every test I've been able to find on them. Not to get into the whole Marshal/Sanow thing (and it's been decades since I read their stuff), but didn't the 125-grain .357mag tend to do better than both the lighter 110 and the heavier 158..? Could be wrong, as I said it's been a long time ago now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:...It is a plain point of fact that the heaviest bullets in ANY caliber perform better than lighter ones... I may be nitpicking, but in ballistics discussions I tend to get hesitant about "always", "all", "never", etc. A 350-grain 454 absolutely doesn't perform better on our size deer here in Arkansas than a 240-260 does. An M855 doesn't do better in my carbine than M193. Apples & oranges between defensive calibers, hunting calibers, and rifle calibers; but the crux of my thoughts on it, for whatever it's worth. Similarly (from the few tests I've been able to find), the 124 HST tends to do slightly better than the 147 does from small, pocket-size 9mm's like the CM9 that I personally prefer. By better, I simply mean slightly better penetration; all HST's tend to do VERY well in most every test I've been able to find on them. Not to get into the whole Marshal/Sanow thing (and it's been decades since I read their stuff), but didn't the 125-grain .357mag tend to do better than both the lighter 110 and the heavier 158..? Could be wrong, as I said it's been a long time ago now. We were talking about self-defense bullets and the ability to meet the FBI/IWBA test criteria. And most 125 grain .357 mag will underpenetrate to that criterion. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 5:45:16 PM EDT
[#38]
I also researched the 9mm options until I was confident in my choice.
The Federal HST 147 grain non +P seemed to have the edge of the other HSTs in 9mm. This was in the last big scare but I was lucky enough to find a 1000 round case for around $400. My 9s now have a good supply of a fantastic round. |
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