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Posted: 3/13/2014 7:31:25 AM EDT
[#1]
147 gr +P Federal HST
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Posted: 3/13/2014 10:01:40 AM EDT
[#2]
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147 gr +P Federal HST FTW! First post nails it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2014 1:01:37 PM EDT
[#3]
If you want a non bonded the 147 HST is awesome. I sell it out so fast that I do not even bring it in to the shop. I leave it on the dock when it is delivered in the am, label it and it ships out in the pm. Ranger T-Series also goes fast.
If you want bonded then Ranger bonded ie PDX or Gold Dot are hot items. We are lucky today that bullet technology exploded in the late part of the 90's and early into the 2000. When talking about these Law Enforcement grade loads they are all made to meet or exceed the same standard. It does not matter the brand or caliber you like. The playing field is so level that it requires digital calibers to measure the difference between the best performing and the worst. |
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Posted: 3/13/2014 9:16:40 PM EDT
[#4]
I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p
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Posted: 3/14/2014 5:18:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Ok, so now for the important part...who has the best pricing on a box or two?
Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 8:48:05 PM EDT
[#6]
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Ok, so now for the important part...who has the best pricing on a box or two? Thanks -Emt1581 The answer is always SGAmmo.com Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 9:53:27 PM EDT
[#7]
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 3:07:37 AM EDT
[#8]
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Ok, so now for the important part...who has the best pricing on a box or two? Thanks -Emt1581 Pricing isn't the main concern, finding the good stuff in stock is! |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 4:26:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Unless you are a copper, I don't think bonded is a must have.
Bonding mainly keeps bullet integrity after passing through auto glass(the toughest test of the FBI protocol.) For CCW, shooting into or out of cars is an extreme outlier a best, and problematic at worst. The modern hollowpoints are all excellent performers, in all weights. I would choose what I could get enough of to thoroughly test in my gun. There's a guy on YouTube that shoots various rounds from inside wrecked cars out through the glass. It is interesting |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 4:31:08 AM EDT
[#10]
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Ok, so now for the important part...who has the best pricing on a box or two? Thanks -Emt1581 SGAmmo has 147 gr bonded Ranger |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:32:08 AM EDT
[#11]
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SGAmmo has 147 gr bonded Ranger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ok, so now for the important part...who has the best pricing on a box or two? Thanks -Emt1581 SGAmmo has 147 gr bonded Ranger FYI if you are thinking about the bonded Ranger. Link |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:02:10 AM EDT
[#12]
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Unless you are a copper, I don't think bonded is a must have. Bonding mainly keeps bullet integrity after passing through auto glass(the toughest test of the FBI protocol.) For CCW, shooting into or out of cars is an extreme outlier a best, and problematic at worst. The modern hollowpoints are all excellent performers, in all weights. I would choose what I could get enough of to thoroughly test in my gun. There's a guy on YouTube that shoots various rounds from inside wrecked cars out through the glass. It is interesting I disagree about not needing bonded unless LE. We never know the circumstances of the shoot we will be forced to engage in. If I do have to shoot through a windshield, interior/exterior windows (at work, in public or at home), etc. I want to know that my bullet is going to make it through without the jacket flying off. The jacket is what does the work in the wound channel, not the soft lead. I'd hate to get to the point where I'm shooting and realize that my rounds aren't going to do what I need them to because I settled for non-bonded. As for testing in the gun, I've had guns that are complete and utter jammers and then there's the majority of guns that function flawlessly no matter what you feed them. What I haven't had is a gun that goes from one to the other. They either work well or they don't. And it doesn't take many rounds, in my experience, to tell the difference. So I do test the rounds themselves to make sure they feed. But I don't run boxes and boxes of it through. Not at $30 +/- per mag. It's just not needed. If I was that concerned I'd pour my own HP's and test them that way for $5/50rds. But again, I just don't have that concern where I feel it takes a ton of rounds to know whether they work or not. -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:03:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Get the RA9B or BA the warning was on a specific contract production run.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:03:52 AM EDT
[#14]
What I'm going to do is use some of my Cabela's points and have a box or two shipped to the store 20min. up the road. I think I'm going to go with the PDX1 147gr. Any reason not to go with that in favor of something better?
Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:36:57 AM EDT
[#15]
I have the same loaded in my FD issued Glock right now.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:07:46 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm a big fan of the HST 147 grain load.
I don't shoot the 147 +P, as that defeats the purpose of the 147 which is to penetrate deeply to reach the vital organs. Driving 9mm bullets faster accelerates expansion and reduces penetration in most cases. HST 147 is one of the rounds that consistantly will pass 12" to the 14" or so depth in FBI testing. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:42:34 AM EDT
[#17]
hell I still run Rangers. 124gr +p
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Posted: 3/15/2014 2:35:47 PM EDT
[#18]
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I disagree about not needing bonded unless LE. We never know the circumstances of the shoot we will be forced to engage in. If I do have to shoot through a windshield, interior/exterior windows (at work, in public or at home), etc. I want to know that my bullet is going to make it through without the jacket flying off. The jacket is what does the work in the wound channel, not the soft lead. I'd hate to get to the point where I'm shooting and realize that my rounds aren't going to do what I need them to because I settled for non-bonded. As for testing in the gun, I've had guns that are complete and utter jammers and then there's the majority of guns that function flawlessly no matter what you feed them. What I haven't had is a gun that goes from one to the other. They either work well or they don't. And it doesn't take many rounds, in my experience, to tell the difference. So I do test the rounds themselves to make sure they feed. But I don't run boxes and boxes of it through. Not at $30 +/- per mag. It's just not needed. If I was that concerned I'd pour my own HP's and test them that way for $5/50rds. But again, I just don't have that concern where I feel it takes a ton of rounds to know whether they work or not. -Emt1581 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Unless you are a copper, I don't think bonded is a must have. Bonding mainly keeps bullet integrity after passing through auto glass(the toughest test of the FBI protocol.) For CCW, shooting into or out of cars is an extreme outlier a best, and problematic at worst. The modern hollowpoints are all excellent performers, in all weights. I would choose what I could get enough of to thoroughly test in my gun. There's a guy on YouTube that shoots various rounds from inside wrecked cars out through the glass. It is interesting I disagree about not needing bonded unless LE. We never know the circumstances of the shoot we will be forced to engage in. If I do have to shoot through a windshield, interior/exterior windows (at work, in public or at home), etc. I want to know that my bullet is going to make it through without the jacket flying off. The jacket is what does the work in the wound channel, not the soft lead. I'd hate to get to the point where I'm shooting and realize that my rounds aren't going to do what I need them to because I settled for non-bonded. As for testing in the gun, I've had guns that are complete and utter jammers and then there's the majority of guns that function flawlessly no matter what you feed them. What I haven't had is a gun that goes from one to the other. They either work well or they don't. And it doesn't take many rounds, in my experience, to tell the difference. So I do test the rounds themselves to make sure they feed. But I don't run boxes and boxes of it through. Not at $30 +/- per mag. It's just not needed. If I was that concerned I'd pour my own HP's and test them that way for $5/50rds. But again, I just don't have that concern where I feel it takes a ton of rounds to know whether they work or not. -Emt1581 Well, the devil's in the details concerning penetration after glass. I first got a copy of the FBI protocol in 1997. This version still had the infamous W value. 
The load I carried at the time(Federal 115 gr. 9bple) was listed as a failure. Well, that's disconcerting. So I dug into the asterisks. Turns out the reason it failed was it only penetrated 7.5" through heavy clothing(which preceded the now standard 4 layers of denim) after passing through 45 degree angled auto glass. That was the only test it failed to reach 14" on(the old min.) Er, okay FBI. You're picking an excellent round, certainly. I just view the FBI protocol--even the revised versions--askance. They have an Agenda. Not a malicious one, at all. But the lesson they "learned" in Miami about penetration was informed by this traumatized agenda. Just my 2 centavos Edit:sperling and old penetration minimum depth |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 6:17:54 AM EDT
[#19]
In a word, NO. The 147 issues have been discussed a million times over, bullet design doesn't mask the problems inherent with the 147, a mid weight +P is the load for the 9mm. A 124/125/127 is where it's at.
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Posted: 3/16/2014 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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In a word, NO. The 147 issues have been discussed a million times over, bullet design doesn't mask the problems inherent with the 147, a mid weight +P is the load for the 9mm. A 124/125/127 is where it's at. What are the inherent problems with the 147 grain load that you are referring to? I don't disagree that midweight +p loads perform well, but pretty much all modern 147 grain loads perform as well or better than the midweight loadings. You don't get to compare old designs like Federal 9MS or WWB 147grn JHP against the 124gen +p Gold Dot of today. Me, I carry both weights, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on a given round based on outdated or specious information. |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 7:31:53 AM EDT
[#21]
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What I'm going to do is use some of my Cabela's points and have a box or two shipped to the store 20min. up the road. I think I'm going to go with the PDX1 147gr. Any reason not to go with that in favor of something better? Thanks -Emt1581 Those will work just fine. |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 10:07:01 AM EDT
[#22]
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What are the inherent problems with the 147 grain load that you are referring to? I don't disagree that midweight +p loads perform well, but pretty much all modern 147 grain loads perform as well or better than the midweight loadings. You don't get to compare old designs like Federal 9MS or WWB 147grn JHP against the 124gen +p Gold Dot of today. Me, I carry both weights, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on a given round based on outdated or specious information. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In a word, NO. The 147 issues have been discussed a million times over, bullet design doesn't mask the problems inherent with the 147, a mid weight +P is the load for the 9mm. A 124/125/127 is where it's at. What are the inherent problems with the 147 grain load that you are referring to? I don't disagree that midweight +p loads perform well, but pretty much all modern 147 grain loads perform as well or better than the midweight loadings. You don't get to compare old designs like Federal 9MS or WWB 147grn JHP against the 124gen +p Gold Dot of today. Me, I carry both weights, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on a given round based on outdated or specious information. I want to hear this one too. Both rounds are very similar in terminal performance IMO. |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 10:21:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Lots of folks still base their negative opinions of the 147 grain loadings on the original ones from long ago.
These are often the folks that still think the HydaShok is GTG, or that Silvertips are "fight stoppers". Modern projectile designs have changed the old accepted norms of what is acceptable performance of a handgun in self defense use. Here is another tip. The world isn't flat. |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 12:05:28 PM EDT
[#24]
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I want to hear this one too. Both rounds are very similar in terminal performance IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In a word, NO. The 147 issues have been discussed a million times over, bullet design doesn't mask the problems inherent with the 147, a mid weight +P is the load for the 9mm. A 124/125/127 is where it's at. What are the inherent problems with the 147 grain load that you are referring to? I don't disagree that midweight +p loads perform well, but pretty much all modern 147 grain loads perform as well or better than the midweight loadings. You don't get to compare old designs like Federal 9MS or WWB 147grn JHP against the 124gen +p Gold Dot of today. Me, I carry both weights, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on a given round based on outdated or specious information. I want to hear this one too. Both rounds are very similar in terminal performance IMO. Nframe is living in the past, or he's reading old info. Modern 147g bullets (HST, Gold Dots, Ranger...) open up just as well as the lighter alternatives, and have other benefits (greater sectional density, easier follow up shots, stay subsonic for suppressor use) when compared to the +p 124g varieties. I used to carry 124g +p, and now I carry 147g HST or Gold Dots (whichever can get my hands on). I would not hesitate to carry any of Winchester's 147g Ranger varieties, as long as I tested them in my guns first. |
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Posted: 3/16/2014 9:03:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Handgun ammo changed forever when the Ranger T-Series hit the streets back in 1998. HST followed in 2001 and Gold Dot SB in 2008.
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Posted: 3/17/2014 2:24:42 PM EDT
[#26]
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Nframe is living in the past, or he's reading old info. Modern 147g bullets (HST, Gold Dots, Ranger...) open up just as well as the lighter alternatives, and have other benefits (greater sectional density, easier follow up shots, stay subsonic for suppressor use) when compared to the +p 124g varieties. I used to carry 124g +p, and now I carry 147g HST or Gold Dots (whichever can get my hands on). I would not hesitate to carry any of Winchester's 147g Ranger varieties, as long as I tested them in my guns first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In a word, NO. The 147 issues have been discussed a million times over, bullet design doesn't mask the problems inherent with the 147, a mid weight +P is the load for the 9mm. A 124/125/127 is where it's at. What are the inherent problems with the 147 grain load that you are referring to? I don't disagree that midweight +p loads perform well, but pretty much all modern 147 grain loads perform as well or better than the midweight loadings. You don't get to compare old designs like Federal 9MS or WWB 147grn JHP against the 124gen +p Gold Dot of today. Me, I carry both weights, but I'm not going to cast aspersions on a given round based on outdated or specious information. I want to hear this one too. Both rounds are very similar in terminal performance IMO. Nframe is living in the past, or he's reading old info. Modern 147g bullets (HST, Gold Dots, Ranger...) open up just as well as the lighter alternatives, and have other benefits (greater sectional density, easier follow up shots, stay subsonic for suppressor use) when compared to the +p 124g varieties. I used to carry 124g +p, and now I carry 147g HST or Gold Dots (whichever can get my hands on). I would not hesitate to carry any of Winchester's 147g Ranger varieties, as long as I tested them in my guns first. Yep. For some reason people seem to have a hard time understanding that the important part is penetration. Penetration scales with sectional density. 9mm 147 grain bullets have the highest sectional density of any of the major calibers. It has better sectional density than .45 cal 230 grain bullets. Simple physics. Given penetration and expansion there is no reason to use a +p load. |
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Posted: 3/17/2014 6:02:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Ammo technology has passed the need for higher pressure +P and +P+ loads. Speaking as a retailer there is still plenty of people that want higher pressure loads because they are fun to shoot or they just are 16 years behind like the people that think 147gr are junk. Either way so long as there is a market they will keep making +P ammo.
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Posted: 3/18/2014 10:50:00 AM EDT
[#28]
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Where you getting those Outlaw? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 10:57:17 AM EDT
[#29]
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Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. I was looking at old invoices today. It has been almost a year since I had LE9T5 in stock. |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 1:04:57 PM EDT
[#30]
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I was looking at old invoices today. It has been almost a year since I had LE9T5 in stock. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. I was looking at old invoices today. It has been almost a year since I had LE9T5 in stock. You need to remedy that man! |
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Posted: 3/18/2014 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#31]
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You need to remedy that man! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. I was looking at old invoices today. It has been almost a year since I had LE9T5 in stock. You need to remedy that man! I would rather see some P9HST2. 
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Posted: 3/18/2014 2:12:12 PM EDT
[#32]
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You need to remedy that man! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like federal tactical bonded 135 grain +p Where you getting those Outlaw? Got a local LEO buddy of mine that gets them for me. I was looking at old invoices today. It has been almost a year since I had LE9T5 in stock. You need to remedy that man! I ordered more the day after obumduh kicked Romney butt at the debates. |
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Posted: 3/19/2014 11:10:36 AM EDT
[#33]
I admit I'm strange I chose a 124 standard pressure for my new P30S 9mm
1st pick would be Federal Tactical 124gr followed by 124gr HST ( yes I know 124HST isn't on the Doc list) The 147 have some kick in my P30S 9mm and the 124 are mild. My P229 40cal 180gr is softer shooting. But yes the 9mm 147 are excellent SD loads |
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Posted: 3/19/2014 8:10:19 PM EDT
[#34]
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Ammo technology has passed the need for higher pressure +P and +P+ loads. Speaking as a retailer there is still plenty of people that want higher pressure loads because they are fun to shoot or they just are 16 years behind like the people that think 147gr are junk. Either way so long as there is a market they will keep making +P ammo. I dunno, I could swear I remember Doc Roberts saying something about Ranger-T as an example, where the punch dies to cut the cavity would dull, and production lots toward the end of the punch's life tended to need a little more V to expand as advertised, so in some loads (I think RA45T was his example here) the +P was preferred to guarantee expansion even with a worn-down die cutting the cavity. (i.e. RA45TP was preferred, slightly, over RA45T for the insurance factor) Not sure how well this applies anymore, but given the environment for ammunition companies the last 2 years or so, I could see it still being a possibility. But I'm no expert, and this is from memory. FWIW, my 9mm JHP of choice at present is Gold Dot 147gr. (230gr standard pressure HST in .45 Auto, also FWIW) |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 12:43:48 AM EDT
[#35]
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I dunno, I could swear I remember Doc Roberts saying something about Ranger-T as an example, where the punch dies to cut the cavity would dull, and production lots toward the end of the punch's life tended to need a little more V to expand as advertised, so in some loads (I think RA45T was his example here) the +P was preferred to guarantee expansion even with a worn-down die cutting the cavity. (i.e. RA45TP was preferred, slightly, over RA45T for the insurance factor) Not sure how well this applies anymore, but given the environment for ammunition companies the last 2 years or so, I could see it still being a possibility. But I'm no expert, and this is from memory. FWIW, my 9mm JHP of choice at present is Gold Dot 147gr. (230gr standard pressure HST in .45 Auto, also FWIW) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ammo technology has passed the need for higher pressure +P and +P+ loads. Speaking as a retailer there is still plenty of people that want higher pressure loads because they are fun to shoot or they just are 16 years behind like the people that think 147gr are junk. Either way so long as there is a market they will keep making +P ammo. I dunno, I could swear I remember Doc Roberts saying something about Ranger-T as an example, where the punch dies to cut the cavity would dull, and production lots toward the end of the punch's life tended to need a little more V to expand as advertised, so in some loads (I think RA45T was his example here) the +P was preferred to guarantee expansion even with a worn-down die cutting the cavity. (i.e. RA45TP was preferred, slightly, over RA45T for the insurance factor) Not sure how well this applies anymore, but given the environment for ammunition companies the last 2 years or so, I could see it still being a possibility. But I'm no expert, and this is from memory. FWIW, my 9mm JHP of choice at present is Gold Dot 147gr. (230gr standard pressure HST in .45 Auto, also FWIW) The dies are `supposed to be replaced when needed. The only dies that I know that got real bad was the 180gr Bonded a couple of years ago. Winchester ended up putting the ammo in White boxes and selling them to regular Winchester dealers instead of Ranger dealers. Places like Wal Mart had tons of it cheap. |
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Posted: 3/20/2014 3:42:24 PM EDT
[#36]
I just buy whatever is available. Right now that's GD 124 +P.
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Posted: 3/21/2014 7:04:28 AM EDT
[#37]
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I just buy whatever is available. Right now that's GD 124 +P. Seriously, this is like spliting hairs. |
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Posted: 3/22/2014 6:09:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Im waiting for one last bulk order from SGammo before I move back to california in a few months. Waiting on 9mm 147gr HST (standard pressure). Im thinking I will order 3000 rounds and then I will pretty much be set for life as far as 9mm duty ammo. Or at least for a decade lol
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Posted: 3/22/2014 6:49:40 PM EDT
[#39]
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Im waiting for one last bulk order from SGammo before I move back to california in a few months. Waiting on 9mm 147gr HST (standard pressure). Im thinking I will order 3000 rounds and then I will pretty much be set for life as far as 9mm duty ammo. Or at least for a decade lol 
Damn dude. |
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Posted: 3/23/2014 3:01:30 PM EDT
[#40]
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Seriously, this is like spliting hairs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just buy whatever is available. Right now that's GD 124 +P. Seriously, this is like spliting hairs. You have to admit that it sure is fun. 
If it's 124 grains or over and has Ranger, GD, or HST on the box it'll be fine. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/24/2014 9:14:18 AM EDT
[#41]
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You have to admit that it sure is fun ghey.
If it's 124 grains or over and has Ranger, GD, or HST on the box it'll be fine. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just buy whatever is available. Right now that's GD 124 +P. Seriously, this is like spliting hairs. You have to admit that it sure is fun ghey.
If it's 124 grains or over and has Ranger, GD, or HST on the box it'll be fine. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Same thing to some folks. 
Honestly I find it annoying. Whats so hard about doing a search or scrolling down a page or two? |
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Posted: 3/25/2014 1:41:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Personally I run 147 HST standard pressure non bonded. HST performs well through barriers despite being non bonded. If I were going to go bonded I'd go Speer Gold Dot but mainly because that's what I have experience with.
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Posted: 3/25/2014 2:47:29 PM EDT
[#43]
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Personally I run 147 HST standard pressure non bonded. HST performs well through barriers despite being non bonded. If I were going to go bonded I'd go Speer Gold Dot but mainly because that's what I have experience with. With performance like HST offers, I guess there is no real need to go bonded. That said, even though HST isn't a "bonded" bullet, the jacket/core are mechanically locked together, which seems to account for the excellent barrier performance of both HST and Critical Duty (albeit that bullet design is different). |
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Posted: 3/27/2014 9:00:58 AM EDT
[#44]
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Damn dude. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Im waiting for one last bulk order from SGammo before I move back to california in a few months. Waiting on 9mm 147gr HST (standard pressure). Im thinking I will order 3000 rounds and then I will pretty much be set for life as far as 9mm duty ammo. Or at least for a decade lol
Damn dude. 250 would last me for life! I only test my pistol with Duty ammo for POA/POI and that only take me 50rds. (5mags loaded with 10rds) after 5mags then I know the load will feed. After the Pistol is broken in with Ball ammo. I don't see a need for shooting 200 rds of duty ammo just to see if it feeds Since 1990 I haven't ran across a service pistol that wouldn't feed Rem , Win , Fed SD ammo . Now I know the older P220 /P225 had a problem and the C1911. Although I was lucky when I bought my Gen 1 80 Colt Combat Elite it was one of the first to come throated from Colt. I think I bought it in 89 or 90 |
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Posted: 3/27/2014 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#45]
When I used to exclusively carry a .45acp I used 230 gr Gold Dots. Now that I carry a Glock 19 most of the time, I have switched to the 147 gr. Federal HST. I do have some 147 gr Gold Dot loaded in a few mags as well, but the overwhelming majority of my mags have the HST in them. I have some beautiful recovered bullets at my house of the 147 HST shot through denim into gel. They expanded to a diameter almost as large as my .45 230 gr Gold Dots and penetration was similar too. I was so extremely impressed with them that I switched my .45 carry ammo over to 230 gr HST's. I haven't had a chance to shoot the 45's into gel yet, but I'm pretty confident that they would be as impressive as the 9mm 147 HST's. If I get the opportunity and I remember, I will look for my recovered bullets and post a pic.
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Posted: 3/27/2014 1:38:29 PM EDT
[#46]
I keep my PPS and P99c stoked with the 147 HSTs.
It's very accurate out of both pistols, and the heavy 147 looses a smaller percentage of it's velocity out of the shorter barrel than a +P 124 grain projectile does, so I know it will have the velocity necessary to expand properly. Win/win. |
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Posted: 3/27/2014 1:53:20 PM EDT
[#47]
I was given a couple boxes of Winchester elite PDX1 Defender 147gr bj hp.
What's the opinion on these? They will be out of a G19. |
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Posted: 3/27/2014 9:39:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Nobody?
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Posted: 3/28/2014 3:06:37 AM EDT
[#49]
Pretty much the same thing as a bonded Ranger, only in a lower count package at a higher price.
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Posted: 3/28/2014 5:55:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was given a couple boxes of Winchester elite PDX1 Defender 147gr bj hp. What's the opinion on these? They will be out of a G19. They're really good rounds. I like those and the Bonded Ranger *almost* as much as T-Series 
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