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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:40:59 AM EDT
[#1]
10yds? I say you can't shoot for shit...you must be flinching like sumbitch or shooting with both eyes close, or something, cos at 10yds you should be able to put all 15rnds inside a 6" circle.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:41:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Anybody can shoot a Glock. Saying not everybody can shoot a Glock is ridiculous. I can't tell you what you are doing wrong, I would have to be with you to identify the problem.
Practice dry firing a lot focusing on the front sight. Put an empty shell casing on the top of the slide when dry firing to practice good trigger control. I think that would solve your problem. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:51:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Like you said, it isn't the Glock's problem. You should get an instructor to give you a few lessons in marksmanship. No shame in it and you will be better for it. It would be impossible for us to solve this for you over the internet, other than telling you that you are doing something wrong.
If you aren't going to get an instructor I would: - Dry fire at home, a lot. - Move the target closer. Once you group at closer range then you can start to scoot it back. Build some confidence. - 5 rounds in the magazine. 15 can get fatiguing and also make it harder to figure out what each shot does. - Slow down and breath. - Try using shoot n see targets so you can clearly see where each shot is hitting. - Look up what a proper sight picture looks like. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:53:58 AM EDT
[#4]
When your rounds go off paper what where are they missing? I know that sounds dumb but how are your shots patterning? Left? Right? High? Low?
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Posted: 8/25/2014 9:04:36 AM EDT
[#5]
have you fired a comparable service pistol in the same caliber with similar results at the same range?
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Posted: 8/25/2014 9:58:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Have someone else shoot your pistol, but at 10 yards it isn't the gun. If you have the ability, start closer. 3 yards, whatever. Aim at a small dot on a plain white sheet of paper and track your shots to troubleshoot the issue.
I would wager 99% of the issue is in your trigger manipulation. New parts and changing your feet isn't going to fix that. With a Glock or most other striker fired triggers you want to align the sights, take the pre-travel stage of the trigger to the point where the trigger is starting to "tighten up" and get heavier. Feel that breaking point coming, verify your sights and press. Sights, slack out, sights, press. I have found most people who can't shoot Glocks, M&Ps, etc. just have poor trigger manipulation skills; they are used to slapping the shit out of the trigger. I always give the example of shooting a Wilson 1911 that belonged to a family member. He was shooting a 3" or so group at 7 yards. I was shooting a ragged hole maybe 1.5" with a G19. We switched guns. His group opened up to 24" and mine shrunk down to 1" or so. That awesome trigger on the Wilson gave him the ability to yank the shit out of the trigger and get away with it. Glocks won't. You can do it, but the number of rounds you've sent down range is of no help. You need to figure the trigger out dry fire, then confirm it with lead. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:24:18 AM EDT
[#7]
I've had a couple of G19s...(still have one) I'm always better with the G30 or G21
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:37:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Trigger control problems.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:39:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody can shoot a Glock. Saying not everybody can shoot a Glock is ridiculous. 100% Fundamentals are fundamental to all pistols.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:29:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100% Fundamentals are fundamental to all pistols. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anybody can shoot a Glock. Saying not everybody can shoot a Glock is ridiculous. 100% Fundamentals are fundamental to all pistols. I took a basic pistol class (not my first go around at all) as it was required for a different class at a certain facility I wanted to attend and figured it couldn't hurt. I picked up several tips that helped me out, I think occasionally going back to basics and double checking your fundamentals is a very good idea. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:42:26 AM EDT
[#11]
OP:
Try this drill. Find a blank wall, white or neutral color is best. Draw or otherwise get your firing grip on the pistol. Get a sight picture on the wall. DO NOT point to a specific point on the wall (important). The goal is to get a good sight picture against the blank canvas, then break the shot dry fire (obviously). WATCH YOUR SIGHTS! See what happens when the shot breaks. This should diagnose flinching/jerking/whatever is going on. Focus on pulling/pressing the trigger straight back to the rear. You don't want to impart any lateral force or else you're going to pull your front sight out of the notch. Good luck.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:55:53 AM EDT
[#12]
My thoughts is that there's something fundamentally off with your technique. Sight alignment and trigger control are king. Grip and stance don't come into play until you try to speed things up, though it's best to learn it properly to begin with so you don't have to unlearn it down the road. My guess is there's a combo of flinching, trigger jerk, and poor sight picture. A g19 will get all hits on target at 50yds or further.
During your dry fire sessions, try taking up the pre-travel on the trigger, align sites, and press. Sights should not move or jerk off your point of aim. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:16:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Lots of good advice so far, but I will also add SLOW DOWN. Not saying you're mag dumping, but even at 5 yards you can just be going too fast if you don't have your fundamentals down.
Also get a bigger sheet of paper or whatever you're shooting at and see where the errant rounds are going. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:36:23 PM EDT
[#14]
It can only be 2 things - sight alignment and trigger control. Everything else is just a product of those two basics. The sights should be aligned so that the top of the front post is level with the top of the rear posts and centered in the notch. The sights should not move when you press the trigger. If you do both of those, the bullet should hit right at the top of the front sight.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:27:57 PM EDT
[#15]
You are going to hear many diagnostics and many opinions which some may work, there is a video from Travis Haley and Ron Avery about trigger control in You Tube called the Triggerstripe Drill, these guys are professionals and have done it all and there are many others out there, another one from Range Time TS with Cory and a visit from Chris Costas about handgun grip, i'm sure they are many others. Does not hurt to see them and learn a little , you will notice the difference by learning and applying the fundamentals correctly.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:31:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Dry fire the hell out of it
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:35:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Things that helped me:
1. dry fire practice 2. Getting a follow up sight picture...after shooting....keep gun and sights on target for a second or two. 3. Defoor sights--the front is thinner (only .115 versus most at .125 to .140). With these, I can make head shots at 25Y all day. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:54:00 PM EDT
[#18]
It's most likely fundamentals:
Proper grip & trigger control. Trigger control is the single most important fundamental that must be mastered to shoot effectively. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:56:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Trigger control is number one if you do not understand trigger reset on the glock there plenty of Info out there to explain it but at say ten yards your group out of a glock should be no bigger than about two inches unless you are making fundamental technique errors
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:07:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Get formal training from a reputable instructor. Check your HTF for suggestions. Just sending more rounds downrange won't help when you don't know what you're doing wrong.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:14:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I shoot my glock worse then my m&p...
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:21:05 PM EDT
[#22]
I was once in this position...couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with mine.
Loads of great advice here....to recap: 1. Start a little closer, build confidence. 2. Dry fire practice...watch your front sight...adjust your grip / amount of finger on the trigger. 3. Load 5 rounds at a time...take it slow. 4. Have a friend load your mags with a couple of snap caps...great for seeing your flinch...if any. 5. Keep practicing. I hated Glocks at first, but now love them. You can get there too. They're truly excellent...and the G19 is the best of the bunch IMO. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:26:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Ask me!!! Ask me!!!!
I will guess if you are right handed you shoot down and left..... If you are left handed you are shooting down and right. Correct...of course I am... I do this for a living. Buy 10 dummy rounds, load them into a magazine with three loaded rounds mixed in. Go to the range and shoot this combo until you can shoot. Don't add more live rounds until all rounds are touching. I just won a free Glock at a LEO shoot for putting 5 rounds in less than an inch @ 10 yards. I owe ball and dummy drills to the shooting. Live rounds are fun, but ball and dummy works period. Pay attention when you flinch and stop doing it. You control it, it shouldn't control you. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:36:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ask me!!! Ask me!!!! I will guess if you are right handed you shoot down and left..... If you are left handed you are shooting down and right. Correct...of course I am... I do this for a living. Buy 10 dummy rounds, load them into a magazine with three loaded rounds mixed in. Go to the range and shoot this combo until you can shoot. Don't add more live rounds until all rounds are touching. I just won a free Glock at a LEO shoot for putting 5 rounds in less than an inch @ 10 yards. I owe ball and dummy drills to the shooting. Live rounds are fun, but ball and dummy works period. Pay attention when you flinch and stop doing it. You control it, it shouldn't control you. That sir, is exceptionally well put. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:54:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Please allow me to elaborate.
I'm in my mid 60s. I've been shooting hand guns for 40+ years. I shoot 2 or 3 days a week. I find that my troubles with shooting the G19 are beyond me. Shots go all over the place. Every other hand gun I own is far more accurate for me. These include. TC Patriot.percussion pistol. Trapper Flint lock pistol Colt Navy .36 cal pistol Remington New Army .45 pistol Ruger MKll target pistol Ruger SR22 pistol Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag pistol Colt Combat Commander in 9mm 1911 in .45acp and sad to say a Kel-tec P3at I simply cant figure what the hell is going on with the G19. Perhaps it is the odd grip angle. I have tried and tried, I asked for help and got it from a trainer and the clubs pistol coach. Things got a little better but ................. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:11:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Shot misplacement has three principal causes.
1. Flinch/Anticipation 2. Grip 3. Trigger Everyone presumes no flinch to then blame trigger control but in most cases the gun is not held correctly. The first video particularly talks about what most people fail to do. The second video is the jedi master saying the same. Once you learn proper grip, you will then learn that 90% of shooters do not hold the gun correctly. That is, the left wrist locked and right palm riding against the back of the locked wrist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgLmQl1zDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:17:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Just helped someone improve his groups with a G19 a couple weekends ago. His background is that he's primarily a revolver shooter.
His problem was both grip and trigger control. Was shooting low and left (he's right handed). Not sure if you can squeeze juice out of a Glock, but he was definitely trying to squeeze something out of it. Lightened his grip and his groups improved by half. Initially about 6 inch groups, but now about 3 inch groups. Also got him to grip high on the backstrap. 2nd problem was that his groups were still to the left. He was shooting with the middle of the pad on his finger, so I told him to put more finger into the trigger. Voila! 3 inch 15 shot groups that were centered on the bullseye at 10 yards. Ran 3 full mags and he got consistent. YMMV |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 8:05:11 AM EDT
[#28]
This helped me:
Dry fire at home with a dime on the front sight. Try to press the trigger without letting the dime fall off. Buy some snap caps and mix them in with your live rounds at the range. Load your mag with eyes closed so you don;t know where the snap caps are in the loaded mag. When a snap cap gets gets chambered and you press the trigger, pay attention to how much movement you see in the front sight. It's hard not to flinch when firing even a 9mm, and you might be surprised at how much movement there is. I still struggle with this. I also agree with shooting at close ranges to build confidence, and then moving further out when you're ready. My only pistols are a G19 and an M&P45, and when I first started shooting them I was so frustrated at how poorly I shot. The above has really helped me make progress. I'm still really bad ar 20 yards, but at 10 yards (which is where I practice) I generally can manage 10 rounds into 4-5 inches. That's not great, but it's waaaaay better than where I was when I started. Another thing I do is put my targets on a large sheet of paper so that i can track shots that miss the target, I use old engineering drawings, but you could also use wrapping paper. I typically shoot small paper plates, and when I would miss I had no idea where my shots went, which was frustrating. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 2:36:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please allow me to elaborate. I'm in my mid 60s. I've been shooting hand guns for 40+ years. I shoot 2 or 3 days a week. I find that my troubles with shooting the G19 are beyond me. Shots go all over the place. Every other hand gun I own is far more accurate for me. These include. TC Patriot.percussion pistol. Trapper Flint lock pistol Colt Navy .36 cal pistol Remington New Army .45 pistol Ruger MKll target pistol Ruger SR22 pistol Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag pistol Colt Combat Commander in 9mm 1911 in .45acp and sad to say a Kel-tec P3at I simply cant figure what the hell is going on with the G19. Perhaps it is the odd grip angle. I have tried and tried, I asked for help and got it from a trainer and the clubs pistol coach. Things got a little better but ................. I doubt that grip angle has anything to do with your problems. If you aren't staying on paper at 10 yards, I am going with trigger control. Thus my advice is still dry firing it a lot. All the guns you listed have different triggers than a Glock. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 4:19:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please allow me to elaborate. I'm in my mid 60s. I've been shooting hand guns for 40+ years. I shoot 2 or 3 days a week. I find that my troubles with shooting the G19 are beyond me. Shots go all over the place. Every other hand gun I own is far more accurate for me. These include. TC Patriot.percussion pistol. Trapper Flint lock pistol Colt Navy .36 cal pistol Remington New Army .45 pistol Ruger MKll target pistol Ruger SR22 pistol Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag pistol Colt Combat Commander in 9mm 1911 in .45acp and sad to say a Kel-tec P3at I simply cant figure what the hell is going on with the G19. Perhaps it is the odd grip angle. I have tried and tried, I asked for help and got it from a trainer and the clubs pistol coach. Things got a little better but ................. I had a new Gen3 Glock 26 - which are supposedly very accurate guns - that I literally couldn't hit a B52 target with at 21 feet. I shot on a USMC Intramural Rifle/Pistol Team, so I am well versed in the fundamentals. It totally baffled me. I sold it and got a Gen 4....all the problems went away and it can put 10 rounds in a pie plate at a moderately fast rate of fire. So...yes, fundamentals are fundamentals - and no doubt once you identify the problem, you can correct it - but at least you know you're not alone in having this happen. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 5:00:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Problem now is that you have 2000 really bad reps on that handgun.
Since the Glock trigger is essentially a 3 stage pull (I call it pre-slop, firing pin safety moving, connector slippage), its tough to get to the last part, which is the part that really matters, and roll through that while keeping that front sight on target. You're probably trying to shoot it like a DA revolver, which is basically just moving the trigger "at a constant speed" til the shot breaks, which means once you get to that last heavy part, you're really womping on the trigger. Press through the first to stages, hold, then concentrate on a nice smooth press once you get to the final portion of the pull. Forget anything exists outside of your front sight, and focus on it until the shot breaks with a nice smooth press. Took me a while to learn to shoot glocks, but now I can shoot them quite well. Still shoot other platforms better though. |
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Posted: 8/30/2014 6:47:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of good advice so far, but I will also add SLOW DOWN. Not saying you're mag dumping, but even at 5 yards you can just be going too fast if you don't have your fundamentals down. Also get a bigger sheet of paper or whatever you're shooting at and see where the errant rounds are going. This. Don't go shooting a whole bunch of rounds at one time , this just re-enforces bad habits. You want the target close enough so you can see every bullet hole as it hits and you want paper large enough so you don't drop any off the paper. You want to see the results of every shot right as you shoot it so you can learn what works and what doesn't . Take your time and try to picture what the sight picture was when the trigger broke. Try to slowly pop off 4 or 5 good shots then take a rest or shoot some other gun , then come back and shoot another 4 or 5. If you can get in a grove hiting the target or at least knowing when you messed up and jerked one out you can then shoot longer strings or push your target out. |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 1:52:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Shooting accurately and properly is a skill best learned by dry firing. I teach folks a lot of skills including trigger control and proper sight alignment by dry firing only.
I also teach reloading and re holstering with an unloaded fire arm. I have had students get frustrated because my 1st 2 classes we do not even fire the weapon with live ammunition. I can generally put 15 rounds of 9,4,45 or 38/357 into a 2" group or better at 30 ft with any auto loader or revolver. Some guns with atrocious triggers being the exception. If you cant even hit the paper you are flinching badly. Stop, unload your weapon and start dry fire practicing post haste. |
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Posted: 9/10/2014 12:50:20 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 9/10/2014 1:24:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10yds? I say you can't shoot for shit...you must be flinching like sumbitch or shooting with both eyes close, or something, cos at 10yds you should be able to put all 15rnds inside a 6" circle. What a helpful post. 
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Posted: 9/11/2014 11:32:51 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
10yds? I say you can't shoot for shit...you must be flinching like sumbitch or shooting with both eyes close, or something, cos at 10yds you should be able to put all 15rnds inside a 6" circle. Brilliant. 
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Posted: 9/11/2014 12:13:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please allow me to elaborate. I'm in my mid 60s. I've been shooting hand guns for 40+ years. I shoot 2 or 3 days a week. I find that my troubles with shooting the G19 are beyond me. Shots go all over the place. Every other hand gun I own is far more accurate for me. These include. TC Patriot.percussion pistol. Trapper Flint lock pistol Colt Navy .36 cal pistol Remington New Army .45 pistol Ruger MKll target pistol Ruger SR22 pistol Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag pistol Colt Combat Commander in 9mm 1911 in .45acp and sad to say a Kel-tec P3at I simply cant figure what the hell is going on with the G19. Perhaps it is the odd grip angle. I have tried and tried, I asked for help and got it from a trainer and the clubs pistol coach. Things got a little better but ................. Where in PA are you? |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 2:22:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please allow me to elaborate. I'm in my mid 60s. I've been shooting hand guns for 40+ years. I shoot 2 or 3 days a week. I find that my troubles with shooting the G19 are beyond me. Shots go all over the place. Every other hand gun I own is far more accurate for me. These include. TC Patriot.percussion pistol. Trapper Flint lock pistol Colt Navy .36 cal pistol Remington New Army .45 pistol Ruger MKll target pistol Ruger SR22 pistol Ruger Blackhawk 357 mag pistol Colt Combat Commander in 9mm 1911 in .45acp and sad to say a Kel-tec P3at I simply cant figure what the hell is going on with the G19. Perhaps it is the odd grip angle. I have tried and tried, I asked for help and got it from a trainer and the clubs pistol coach. Things got a little better but ................. I don't know, take the Colt Commander 9mm and G19 to the range and nothing else, and figure it out. I have always seem to be able to adapt to different firearms. The Glock trigger is a lot different from any on your list there. Lots of single action trigger pulls on that list. Do you usually shoot with a one handed technique or two handed? |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 12:09:29 PM EDT
[#39]
I have not read through the thread, but my first thoughts are flinching and you need to slow down.
ETA: At the range when I am missing shots I stop and take out the rounds and dry fire. It actually really helps to mix in dry fire with live fire because it calms you down, and it tells you just how bad your fundamentals are. ETA2; The G19 actually has a different grip angle than the 17/26 so give a G17 a try, and then report back. |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 1:34:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shot misplacement has three principal causes. 1. Flinch/Anticipation 2. Grip 3. Trigger Everyone presumes no flinch to then blame trigger control but in most cases the gun is not held correctly. The first video particularly talks about what most people fail to do. The second video is the jedi master saying the same. Once you learn proper grip, you will then learn that 90% of shooters do not hold the gun correctly. That is, the left wrist locked and right palm riding against the back of the locked wrist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgLmQl1zDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s Those videos are fantastic. Thanks for posting that. I have some dry fire practice to do now. |
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