Came up on a discussion at work, a co-worker grabbed me knowing I have and carry a CZ 75 B. The discussion was that the Glock trigger safety was no different than the firing pin block in my 75B, all either would do would keep the pistol from firing unless the trigger was pulled. So he ask how I carried mine. Cocked and locked, I stated. I was then asked why, if the Glock was considered to be a safe to carry gun without a manual safety why wouldn't really any gun be safe ? Whole can of worms there, but good points were made. The 5 lbs single action pull of my 75b couldn't be any less safe than the same trigger pull from a Glock or similar pistol. Personally I feel "better" about having a manual safety and muscle memory through training , flipping it down has become instinct, but I don't think having it off makes it any less prone to negligent discharge than a Glock. Anyone care to weigh in on the topic ?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/159994_Pistol_safeties__what_s_the_difference__.html

I'm totally comfortable carrying glocks with a round in the chamber. They are all I carry. I don't see it as an issue at when you practice correct gun safety and use a good holster.

All pistols these days have FP blocks, so the gun will not fire without the trigger being pulled. Therefore, carrying loaded is GTG as long as the trigger is covered by the holster (and you are very careful when holstering).

I feel better with a manual safety too, mainly because I fear the trigger getting caught while holstering. To get around that risk I've simply been holstering the gun BEFORE putting the holster on the belt, so that I can point it in a safe direction. The gun should never come out of the holster--the holster comes off with the gun at home before deholstering.

Anyways, if the gun I'm carrying has a manual safety I use it. I treat all guns as they are loaded and all guns like the safety is off even if it is on.

Carry a Glock with one in the chamber every day, in a high quality holster that completely covers the trigger guard. As long as all precautions are taken while reholstering, there shouldn't be any surprises.

Im not trying to pick at anyone at all or start an argument either direction, but I have an honest question for those of you out there that don't feel comfortable reholstering a hot gun into an IWB or AIWB holster: if you take a defensive handgun course do you take the holster out, holster the gun, and put it all back into your waistband every string of fire during the course? Or do you wear a OWB hip holster on your strong side? Something other than those 2 options?

Again, completely for my own curiosity, not trying to debate anything here.

I use both types but would feel better about the glocks if they had a thumb safety. I learned on a 1911 and am used to the safety, I still find myself feeling for it on the glock every time I draw.

Kind of silly to carry a 75B "cocked and locked" being that they are DA/SA. Round in the chamber and hammer down is safest way to carry a 75B, and no less efficient...............

Safe yes, efficient ? well depends if a long 13 lbs. pull under stress is efficient or accurate . Not saying it can't be, but a effortless swipe down with the thumb, + slight trigger pressure seems more efficient and more accurate.

Remember the Glock striker is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled. Even if the striker dropped from it's resting position it wouldn't have enough energy to set off a primer. In contrast your CZ 75 if the hammer dropped it absolutely would set a primer off and hopefully the firing pin safety is working and would catch the firing pin.

On the flip side, the likelihood of a quality firearm like your CZ having the hammer drop without a trigger pull is exceptionally low so the above really isn't that big of a factor.

This. Booger hook + bang switch= bang.

 




Solution, don't put booger hook on bang switch if you don't want bang.




Glock carrier here. Yes, it's personal preference. I have on occasion carried my sp01 just "because" but I most likely will never have a safety on a primary carry gun. In my preference it's to much to have murphys grubby fingers on. An extreme close quarters draw, where you cannot get a proper grip and therefore have trouble with the safety. A damaged shooting hand because the gunfight did not start on your terms (blitz308 will back me on that one). Personally I usually don't carry a gun with any safety because a self defence gunfight is rarely the "ideals" taught to make beginner level training easier. However, I also do not fault anyone for carrying a weapon with a safety. Being armed already puts you ahead of the bell curve.


 

This. Booger hook + bang switch= bang.

The best, simplest, and most reliable safety is a proper holster.

No matter how you carry, regardless of condition (C1 or ?), or what bubbleheaded maneuver you make, as long as the gun is in a properly fitted holster (IOW, Not Uncle Mike crap) it will not discharge.  If you have a modicum of common sense and respect for safety, you should be able to get your gun into the holster without damage to people or property.  

EDIT to add: When I went to the courthouse in downtown Tacoma to renew my CPL, I carried openly to the door, and they had to summon a deputy to come (no lockboxes).  I think he was annoyed that the law required him to babysit my gun, but his mood changed when I took the whole holster off my belt and handed it to him that way.  No worry, no stress, nobody needs to check anything; the gun is safe and secure.

The Glock is safe to carry without an external thumb safety because the Glock pistol is not carried in a cocked condition.  Same thing with a revolver or a DA/SA semi auto with a decocker.  Same thing with the DAO designs.

The external, mechanical thumb safety is a design feature that was originally invented for use with single action, semiautomatic handguns that were intended to be carried “cocked and locked”.  John Moses Brownings designs; the 1911, the Hi-Power, et al. are some of the most famous examples.  The CZ 75 is another example.  There have been single action, striker fired, semi autos which use a similar firing actuator as the Glock which have been intended to be carried “cocked and locked”, the P-08 Luger is probably the most famous example; it has an external, mechanical thumb safety.  

But these are all single action designs and it was for this action design that the external, mechanical thumb safety was originally designed.  Over the years, there have been mechanical thumb safeties installed on non-single action designs.  Glock has even come up with a factory designed thumb safety (requested by the Tasmanian Police, IIRC).  But these safety additions are redundant on non-single action design pistols.
And BTW, the same basically holds true for long arms.  The AR15 is a single action, semiautomatic rifle and guess what?  Yup, it’s got an external, mechanical thumb safety, too.  Why?  Because it's intended to be carried cocked!

So, this whole thing is really very simple.  If a weapon is intended to be carried with the action in a cocked condition, then there needs to be a separate mechanism to "lock" the action.  If it isn't carried cocked, then there isn't any real need for that design feature.

I carried my 1911's for over 30 years.  It works for me.  I worked through most of the plastic framed designs and finally settled on the P07/P09.  I get the thumb safety, the cocked and locked and outstanding accuracy compared to the other plastic guns I now keep in my gun safe.

I've even put all the 1911's but one in the gun safe.  13 to 16 rounds of .40 S&W or 20 rounds of 9MM works for me.

I too carry a CZ 75B as my EDC. Here is my verdict. My safety flicks on and off easily. Easier than my double action trigger. A little hip friction the wrong way, safety off. Then you have the SA trigger pull, lighter than your DA.

It is much less likely that my DA trigger pull is going to be pulled accidentally, and in a draw I may prematurely take my safety off, or I might become stressed and pull the SA trigger too soon.

Bottom line, in every scenario I run through my head, the DA trigger pull (safety off) is much, much more forgiving. I carry mine an half cock, it eliminates some of the rough pre travel while giving me a solid DA pull that won't accidentally or negligently go off.

YMMV.

The difference in the Glock as stated is it's not "cocked"  It takes a deliberate trigger pull to set it off. Also the Glock trigger has that little  safety thing that must be depressed with the trigger in order to function. Again that's a deliberate trigger pull.

Yes, a safety is needed.  Here it is (not my pic):

Just to kick the anthill a little more...

A manual safety does offer protection from discharge if a trigger gets snagged when re-holstering; and in numerous studies & tests I read years ago, also in most cases causes a several-second delay before firing if picked up by someone not familiar with that particular gun, which is potentially a very good thing in a gun-grab situation.

I have no problem with glocks without manual safeties (own several), and no problem with 1911's with manual safeties (own several). I carried a glock for years in LE work, and a glock (& similar designs) absolutely does NOT need a manual safety from a mechanical standpoint. It absolutely will not fire unless the trigger is pulled.

Thing is, that's also true of a cocked & unlocked 1911 or an 1873 Peacemaker too, isn't it..? So to me, the "it won't fire unless the trigger is pulled" isn't as much of a panacea as it is for a lot of folks. To each his own; that's what makes a free society great.

I hate the idea of a manual safety on a pistol. With modern pistol design and a good holster obviously it's just unnecessary.

You have to consider what is happening inside the pistol mechanically to determine how "safe" it is to carry in a specific condition.

As an example, I turned away from M&P because the striker is at full cock. Pulling the trigger drops the sear and allows the striker to spring forward. Should the striker lug fail, as in shear under extreme force or from stress over time, there is a round going off. That is the kind of catastrophic failure you have to imagine. I carry appendix so that didn't work for me. Back to Glock.

If a Glock hits the ground, nothing happens. If a 1911 hits the ground, and the force causes the hammer to drop, you are relying on another safety mechanism - a moving part - to prevent a round from going off. More internal mechanisms and moving parts means more chances for something to fail in my opinion. YMMV

no

whats needed are educated carriers, working guns, solid gear, good training

you cant fix a software issue w/ hardward and $$$s

...and since no one ever makes a mistake that is a perfect answer

I'll keep my thumb safety and train till my times are the same or faster as someone shooting a glock. I don't even think about it, as I'm coming on target the thumb just rocks it to off.

 
A number of the newer polymer pistols are fully cocked and have no external safety.  The HK VP9 being one of them.

I have NG's going all over the place.

Knew something was missing.

The M&P is another pistol that is fully cocked when th slide returns to battery.

The "double action" is a facade because the striker moves back a few thousands of an inch as the sear disengages as it does on every other sticker fired pistol.

The only safeties necessary to render the striker fired pistols mechanically safe are the trigger safeties and the firing pin block safeties; the rest is up to the operator.