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Posted: 2/28/2012 4:17:49 AM EDT
[#1]
It depends on the state. In VA permit holders may carry in his/her vehicle while in school parking lots, traffic circles, etc, as long as you don't exit the vehicle.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/ |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 4:56:01 AM EDT
[#2]
In Utah a permit holder can carry into public schools. Non permit holders can have a weapon in there vehicle while dropping off picking up.
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Posted: 2/28/2012 5:03:46 AM EDT
[#3]
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then?
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Posted: 2/28/2012 5:29:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then? It varies state to state. In TN, it used to be illegal to have a gun within 500 ft of a school. Now, if you have a CCL, you can have the gun in the car on school property as long as it does not leave the vehicle. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:01:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then? Did you even look at the link I provided? |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:51:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then? Did you even look at the link I provided? Yep, and its a link I have had in my favorites for a while, but it doesn't address my specific question (If you click on the WV link there is not even a mention of school zones in the text). So is the GFSZA federal or state controlled. I thought it was a federal law. So my question still stands about being on a public road with my non-resident CCW in a school zone. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 7:10:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then? Did you even look at the link I provided? Yep, and its a link I have had in my favorites for a while, but it doesn't address my specific question (If you click on the WV link there is not even a mention of school zones in the text). So is the GFSZA federal or state controlled. I thought it was a federal law. So my question still stands about being on a public road with my non-resident CCW in a school zone. Try the link marked "CCW Brochure" under "Places Off-Limits" in the WVa link. ETA: hers's the link |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 8:23:26 AM EDT
[#8]
The Gun Free School Zones Act states:[6]
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone; (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities. (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program; (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity. (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection. [edit] Definitions Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law. [edit] Penalty Title 18 U.S.C Section 924(a) establishes the penalty for violating GFSZA: Whoever violates the Act shall be fined not more than $5,000, imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the term of imprisonment imposed under this paragraph shall not run concurrently with any other term of imprisonment imposed under any other provision of law. Technically speaking, the Federal Law on Gun Free School Zones (above) applies to anyone who isn't licensed by the state in which the school zone is located. So yes, technically it is a federal felony to have a loaded firearm on or about one's person while in a school zone unless one has a license to carry from the state where the school zone is. On the plus side, the feds don't have police and the local police either cannot, or normally do not, enforce federal law. On the off chance one has a gun that has not moved in interstate commerce, then the statute does not apply to that weapon. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 8:57:09 AM EDT
[#9]
That pesky "Interstate Commerce" thingy keeps popping up in all sorts of Federal restrictions, doesn't it?
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Posted: 2/28/2012 8:58:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Technically speaking, the Federal Law on Gun Free School Zones (above) applies to anyone who isn't licensed by the state in which the school zone is located. So yes, technically it is a federal felony to have a loaded firearm on or about one's person while in a school zone unless one has a license to carry from the state where the school zone is. On the plus side, the feds don't have police and the local police either cannot, or normally do not, enforce federal law. On the off chance one has a gun that has not moved in interstate commerce, then the statute does not apply to that weapon. Thanks, That is the way I read it also. So travelling through Virgnia with lets say a WV permit that has reciprocity would still land you in hot water if you were pulled over for, lets say a tail light out, in a school zone on a public road if an officer wanted to go that direction. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 8:59:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What about just driving through on a public road or highway? Is a felony being committed then? Did you even look at the link I provided? Yep, and its a link I have had in my favorites for a while, but it doesn't address my specific question (If you click on the WV link there is not even a mention of school zones in the text). So is the GFSZA federal or state controlled. I thought it was a federal law. So my question still stands about being on a public road with my non-resident CCW in a school zone. Try the link marked "CCW Brochure" under "Places Off-Limits" in the WVa link. ETA: hers's the link I apprectiate that, but I was trying to determine what the federal law meant. I think the states can be as restrictive or more restrictive then federal law, but not less. Does that sound correct? |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 9:03:52 AM EDT
[#12]
(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools: (a) Any firearm; (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250; (c) Any device commonly known as "nun-chu-ka sticks", consisting of two or more lengths of wood, metal, plastic, or similar substance connected with wire, rope, or other means; (d) Any device, commonly known as "throwing stars", which are multi-pointed, metal objects designed to embed upon impact from any aspect; (e) Any air gun, including any air pistol or air rifle, designed to propel a BB, pellet, or other projectile by the discharge of compressed air, carbon dioxide, or other gas; or (f)(i) Any portable device manufactured to function as a weapon and which is commonly known as a stun gun, including a projectile stun gun which projects wired probes that are attached to the device that emit an electrical charge designed to administer to a person or an animal an electric shock, charge, or impulse; or (ii) Any device, object, or instrument which is used or intended to be used as a weapon with the intent to injure a person by an electric shock, charge, or impulse. (2) Any such person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall have his or her concealed pistol license, if any revoked for a period of three years. Anyone convicted under this subsection is prohibited from applying for a concealed pistol license for a period of three years. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license. Any violation of subsection (1) of this section by elementary or secondary school students constitutes grounds for expulsion from the state's public schools in accordance with RCW 28A.600.010. An appropriate school authority shall promptly notify law enforcement and the student's parent or guardian regarding any allegation or indication of such violation. Upon the arrest of a person at least twelve years of age and not more than twenty-one years of age for violating subsection (1)(a) of this section, the person shall be detained or confined in a juvenile or adult facility for up to seventy-two hours. The person shall not be released within the seventy-two hours until after the person has been examined and evaluated by the designated mental health professional unless the court in its discretion releases the person sooner after a determination regarding probable cause or on probation bond or bail. Within twenty-four hours of the arrest, the arresting law enforcement agency shall refer the person to the designated mental health professional for examination and evaluation under chapter 71.05 or 71.34 RCW and inform a parent or guardian of the person of the arrest, detention, and examination. The designated mental health professional shall examine and evaluate the person subject to the provisions of chapter 71.05 or71.34 RCW. The examination shall occur at the facility in which the person is detained or confined. If the person has been released on probation, bond, or bail, the examination shall occur wherever is appropriate. The designated mental health professional may determine whether to refer the person to the county-designated chemical dependency specialist for examination and evaluation in accordance with chapter 70.96ARCW. The county-designated chemical dependency specialist shall examine the person subject to the provisions of chapter 70.96A RCW. The examination shall occur at the facility in which the person is detained or confined. If the person has been released on probation, bond, or bail, the examination shall occur wherever is appropriate. Upon completion of any examination by the designated mental health professional or the county-designated chemical dependency specialist, the results of the examination shall be sent to the court, and the court shall consider those results in making any determination about the person. The designated mental health professional and county-designated chemical dependency specialist shall, to the extent permitted by law, notify a parent or guardian of the person that an examination and evaluation has taken place and the results of the examination. Nothing in this subsection prohibits the delivery of additional, appropriate mental health examinations to the person while the person is detained or confined. If the designated mental health professional determines it is appropriate, the designated mental health professional may refer the person to the local regional support network for follow-up services or the department of social and health services or other community providers for other services to the family and individual. (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy; (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities. However, a person who is not a commissioned law enforcement officer and who provides school security services under the direction of a school administrator may not possess a device listed in subsection (1)(f) of this section unless he or she has successfully completed training in the use of such devices that is equivalent to the training received by commissioned law enforcement officers; (c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed; (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district; (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student; (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency. (4) Subsections (1)(c) and (d) of this section do not apply to any person who possesses nun-chu-ka sticks, throwing stars, or other dangerous weapons to be used in martial arts classes authorized to be conducted on the school premises. (5) Subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section does not apply to any person who possesses a device listed in subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section, if the device is possessed and used solely for the purpose approved by a school for use in a school authorized event, lecture, or activity conducted on the school premises. (6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building. (7) "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs shall be posted around school facilities giving warning of the prohibition of the possession of firearms on school grounds. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 9:09:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: When concealed carrying in your vehicle on a public road that goes through a school zone, or 1000 feet from said zone, are you committing a felony by having the firearm in the car when you pass through these zones (this is with a non-resident permit)? By reading the law it looks to me like I would be and that would also make travel carrying concealed legally nearly impossible with all the school zones located throughout the states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990 "(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone; (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities." |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 10:14:01 AM EDT
[#14]
In MO, you can have a firearm in a school zone, even without a CCW, but it cannot leave the vehicle, even WITH a CCW.
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Posted: 2/28/2012 1:18:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Technically speaking, the Federal Law on Gun Free School Zones (above) applies to anyone who isn't licensed by the state in which the school zone is located. So yes, technically it is a federal felony to have a loaded firearm on or about one's person while in a school zone unless one has a license to carry from the state where the school zone is. On the plus side, the feds don't have police and the local police either cannot, or normally do not, enforce federal law. On the off chance one has a gun that has not moved in interstate commerce, then the statute does not apply to that weapon. Thanks, That is the way I read it also. So travelling through Virgnia with lets say a WV permit that has reciprocity would still land you in hot water if you were pulled over for, lets say a tail light out, in a school zone on a public road if an officer wanted to go that direction. That is correct, although it is highly unlikely. IIRC local LEOs in Virginia cannot enforce Federal law, so they would have to get a federal agency involved, and that federal agency would have to be interested in pursuing it. Unlikely, but possible. Luckily, Virginia issues non-resident permits. The federal law doesn't say you have to be a resident of the state, just that you have to have a permit issued by the state you are in. A non-resident permit would seem to cover that. Since I am less than 15 miles from the Virginia boarder I am considering getting a non-resident VA CHP even though NC and VA have reciprocity, just to avoid this issue. I'm just not sure it is a big enough issue to worry about. Unfortunately for me, the other two states I visit most often, Kansas and Missouri, do not issue non-resident permits, though again, they both have reciprocity with NC that is meaningless to the federal law. As best as I can tell, LEOSA also doesn't offer an exemption to the statute. In fact, under my reading, even though as an NC LEO I am legal to carry in school zones and on school property when off-duty under state law, I would still be breaking the federal law if I didn't have a NC CHP, which I do. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 2:06:58 PM EDT
[#16]
In Florida if your not doing anything wrong and use common sense your GTG. I live within a school zone right now for heavens sake. Its impossible to avoid them. If traveling onto school property keep it in the car and out of site and you ate golden.
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Posted: 2/29/2012 10:47:52 AM EDT
[#17]
I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car.
I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 5:33:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car. I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. State law doesn't trump Federal law. The state can be more restrictive, but not less. Just like anything else (medical marijuana for instance), if the state says something is legal and Federal law says the same thing is illegal, it is still illegal. It is, however, a lot harder to get charged with violating Federal law when one is not on Federal property. The Feds don't have "police", so one would have to somehow attract the attention of a federal alphabet agency to actually get charged under the huge majority of circumstances. |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car. I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. State law doesn't trump Federal law. The state can be more restrictive, but not less. Just like anything else (medical marijuana for instance), if the state says something is legal and Federal law says the same thing is illegal, it is still illegal. It is, however, a lot harder to get charged with violating Federal law when one is not on Federal property. The Feds don't have "police", so one would have to somehow attract the attention of a federal alphabet agency to actually get charged under the huge majority of circumstances. So you're saying Utah is violating federal law by allowing CCW'ers on school grounds with a weapon? |
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Posted: 2/29/2012 8:58:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car. I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. State law doesn't trump Federal law. The state can be more restrictive, but not less. Just like anything else (medical marijuana for instance), if the state says something is legal and Federal law says the same thing is illegal, it is still illegal. It is, however, a lot harder to get charged with violating Federal law when one is not on Federal property. The Feds don't have "police", so one would have to somehow attract the attention of a federal alphabet agency to actually get charged under the huge majority of circumstances. So you're saying Utah is violating federal law by allowing CCW'ers on school grounds with a weapon? Federal law exempts people with a state issued carry permit from the GFSZA. |
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Posted: 3/1/2012 2:27:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car. I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. State law doesn't trump Federal law. The state can be more restrictive, but not less. Just like anything else (medical marijuana for instance), if the state says something is legal and Federal law says the same thing is illegal, it is still illegal. It is, however, a lot harder to get charged with violating Federal law when one is not on Federal property. The Feds don't have "police", so one would have to somehow attract the attention of a federal alphabet agency to actually get charged under the huge majority of circumstances. So you're saying Utah is violating federal law by allowing CCW'ers on school grounds with a weapon? No, the federal statute specifically allows permit holders with a permit from the state which they are in to carry in school zones. However, even if it didn't, it wouldn't be the first time a state had a law that contradicted federal law. California's medical marijuana law doesn't make marijuana legal under federal law, state approved prescription or not. The feds are not in the practice of enforcing the federal laws against marijuana against people who have valid prescriptions under state law, but that doesn't mean they couldn't decide to do so. |
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Posted: 3/1/2012 5:43:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could be wrong, but wouldn't castle doctrine trump this? I.E. when you are carrying in your car, you are not IN the school zone, you are in YOUR car. I know in Oklahoma you are GTG as long as you don't leave your car, OR you leave the gun in your car. State law doesn't trump Federal law. The state can be more restrictive, but not less. Just like anything else (medical marijuana for instance), if the state says something is legal and Federal law says the same thing is illegal, it is still illegal. It is, however, a lot harder to get charged with violating Federal law when one is not on Federal property. The Feds don't have "police", so one would have to somehow attract the attention of a federal alphabet agency to actually get charged under the huge majority of circumstances. So you're saying Utah is violating federal law by allowing CCW'ers on school grounds with a weapon? Federal law exempts people with a state issued carry permit from the GFSZA. OK, just checking.... |
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Posted: 3/2/2012 7:31:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Somebody on here had a question about this very topic several months ago and he asked a law enforcement agency about it via email. He posted the email response. The gist of the response was that it is unlawful to possess a firearm in a schoolzone without a license from that state and that the agency enforces the laws.
I've never heard of anyone actually getting nailed on this, but it appears that it is an arrow in the quiver of law enforcement that they could use if they wanted to, which I find very disturbing. I hope we can get it fixed. |
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