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Posted: 12/28/2014 8:17:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
is that really worth the extra 700 bucks? . no. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:17:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
is that really worth the extra 700 bucks? . no. +1 |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 3:03:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles?
Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 9:09:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles? Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? sure. Since i already had this discussion here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?370559-Which-VZ58-to-buy Ill let you read it. If you see anywhere in that thread that warrants 700+ for a chrome lined barrel and a tabbed carrier let me know. Pleases note.. if you don't care about how much they are and want a czech point more power to you. I just have to say, I can buy alot of ammo, firearms , BP accessories for $700. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:22:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles? Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? I'm guessing you bought the Czechpoint? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 2:04:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing you bought the Czechpoint? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles? Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? I'm guessing you bought the Czechpoint? from that reaction that would be my guess . 
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Posted: 12/29/2014 2:27:17 PM EDT
[#7]
if i was going to buy a czechpoint, it'd be in 556, with the magwell adapter so it uses ar mags.
that'd make it worth much more than the vz2008 to me. in 7.62x39 with vz58 mags though... no, man. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 2:39:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if i was going to buy a czechpoint, it'd be in 556, with the magwell adapter so it uses ar mags. that'd make it worth much more than the vz2008 to me. in 7.62x39 with vz58 mags though... no, man. agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:19:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sure. Since i already had this discussion here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?370559-Which-VZ58-to-buy Ill let you read it. If you see anywhere in that thread that warrants 700+ for a chrome lined barrel and a tabbed carrier let me know. Pleases note.. if you don't care about how much they are and want a czech point more power to you. I just have to say, I can buy alot of ammo, firearms , BP accessories for $700. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles? Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? sure. Since i already had this discussion here: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?370559-Which-VZ58-to-buy Ill let you read it. If you see anywhere in that thread that warrants 700+ for a chrome lined barrel and a tabbed carrier let me know. Pleases note.. if you don't care about how much they are and want a czech point more power to you. I just have to say, I can buy alot of ammo, firearms , BP accessories for $700. If you think about it, if a vz2008 owner wanted a properly heat treated receiver/rails a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel in .311, and tested for function and reliability before it even sold to the masses with a 5 year warranty, wonder how much more they would add to the vz2008. Yeah add those up and seems in the ball park of the $700 mark. Owning 4 csa/czechpoint never regretted paying for their high quality products....an I can still buy allot of ammo/accessories. But hey with all the info and facts given for the vz2008 at a cheap price is why you got one..more power to you. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:31:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing you bought the Czechpoint? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do any of you know the FACTS between both rifles? Do any of you ever own both to compare? Friends not included What hard FACTS would you like to share between both rifles? I'm guessing you bought the Czechpoint? I have a few csa/czechpoint firearms, yes I did buy my cz-usa vz back in 2008. Pictured with my vz2008 when purchased in 2011, your eyes are not deceiving you thats the awesome finish the gun came with  and the
Barrel....let's put it this way, lands and grooves were actually pretty bad. 
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:38:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
if i was going to buy a czechpoint, it'd be in 556, with the magwell adapter so it uses ar mags. that'd make it worth much more than the vz2008 to me. in 7.62x39 with vz58 mags though... no, man. agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? why do i have half the guns in my collection? because it seemed neat, and it could fill a slightly different role than others. it's not like there aren't other ARs for when the mood strikes. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 5:04:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
if i was going to buy a czechpoint, it'd be in 556, with the magwell adapter so it uses ar mags. that'd make it worth much more than the vz2008 to me. in 7.62x39 with vz58 mags though... no, man. agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? Pretty sure he knows about the ar, maybe he appreciates something different a solidl built milled metal receiver "not aluminum" with short stroke piston striker fired rifle/pistol with a walther chromed lined barrel, that has it's own rock n lock proprietary mags with the option of just adding on a adapter to accept ar15mags. Wonder how much piston driven ar15s go for nowadays. But hey now is the time to buy/build A gas impingement ar15 |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 6:47:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure he knows about the ar, maybe he appreciates something different a solidl built milled metal receiver "not aluminum" with short stroke piston striker fired rifle/pistol with a walther chromed lined barrel, that has it's own rock n lock proprietary mags with the option of just adding on a adapter to accept ar15mags. Wonder how much piston driven ar15s go for nowadays. But hey now is the time to buy/build A gas impingement ar15 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if i was going to buy a czechpoint, it'd be in 556, with the magwell adapter so it uses ar mags. that'd make it worth much more than the vz2008 to me. in 7.62x39 with vz58 mags though... no, man. agreed. However, regarding the 556, if one is going to do all that.. why not just buy an ar? Pretty sure he knows about the ar, maybe he appreciates something different a solidl built milled metal receiver "not aluminum" with short stroke piston striker fired rifle/pistol with a walther chromed lined barrel, that has it's own rock n lock proprietary mags with the option of just adding on a adapter to accept ar15mags. Wonder how much piston driven ar15s go for nowadays. But hey now is the time to buy/build A gas impingement ar15 lol. I guess i am the minority. If i want an a rifle that accepts AR mags and shoots the 556 - its going it to be an AR. The same goes with the vz2008/58. i want it as it was issued (caliber / configuration for the most part).. thats the whole point for me. Different strokes for different folks |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 4:41:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Chrome lined bores and enamel finishes impress the chicks and boost self esteem. 
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Posted: 1/2/2015 12:03:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error.
I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 4:49:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Me personally I'd rather pocket the $700 difference, I certainly won't argue that a VZ58 is a better made and better warranted rifle than my VZ2008, but that's a BIG difference in asking price. Just as an Arsenal AK has a better fit n finish than my WASR, but both get the job done, and I paid less for BOTH my WASR & VZ2008 than either a VZ58 or Arsenal retail for. And I won't cry if either of them get scratched.
I understand the mindset, I see CZ clone pistols and think "Couldn't you just get a real CZ for $100 more?". But $100 more might mean a lot more to the guy buying the clone than it does to me. And if that guy is just as happy with his clone as I am with my CZ then no one made a poor choice. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 5:25:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error. I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 7:26:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error. I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? I wouldn't buy one of those when I can get the same gun for 400-500. However, if the day comes that the Century and the Czechpoint are the same price or within a few dollars of each other . . . sure I'd buy the Czechpoint. Maybe even for 50 more. I personally like chrome-lined barrels. But whats your point? |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 9:09:40 PM EDT
[#19]
I have both.
I will never conduct combat operations with either, so the benefits of the czechpoint (I do think there are some, metioned by other posters above) are real, but not conclusive for me. My VZ2008 came with a tabbed carrier, I guess before czechpoint asserted the patent. I will get another czechpoint, but the only reason I'm getting it over a VZ2008 is because I want the 7.62 pistol. If century came out with a pistol consistent with the other VZ2008 offerings, I'd be on it immediately. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 11:18:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't buy one of those when I can get the same gun for 400-500. However, if the day comes that the Century and the Czechpoint are the same price or within a few dollars of each other . . . sure I'd buy the Czechpoint. Maybe even for 50 more. I personally like chrome-lined barrels. But whats your point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error. I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? I wouldn't buy one of those when I can get the same gun for 400-500. However, if the day comes that the Century and the Czechpoint are the same price or within a few dollars of each other . . . sure I'd buy the Czechpoint. Maybe even for 50 more. I personally like chrome-lined barrels. But whats your point? What's your point to this thread you started? I'm gonna say this again and again base your justifications on FACTS between the two, which I gave to the best of my knowledge owning both. Seems people who do their research to find out the facts between the two and decide to purchase a czechpoint vz58 really bothers you that they paid $700 more than your cheap-r century arms vz2008. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 11:49:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's your point to this thread you started? I'm gonna say this again and again base your justifications on FACTS between the two, which I gave to the best of my knowledge owning both. Seems people who do their research to find out the facts between the two and decide to purchase a czechpoint vz58 really bothers you that they paid $700 more than your cheap-r century arms vz2008. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error. I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a czechpoint. They are nice rifles. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. AND More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? I wouldn't buy one of those when I can get the same gun for 400-500. However, if the day comes that the Century and the Czechpoint are the same price or within a few dollars of each other . . . sure I'd buy the Czechpoint. Maybe even for 50 more. I personally like chrome-lined barrels. But whats your point? What's your point to this thread you started? I'm gonna say this again and again base your justifications on FACTS between the two, which I gave to the best of my knowledge owning both. Seems people who do their research to find out the facts between the two and decide to purchase a czechpoint vz58 really bothers you that they paid $700 more than your cheap-r century arms vz2008. |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 11:57:58 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm a firm believer in "buy once cry once" vz58 in the safe
just like a wasr or a sgl |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 11:58:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Loved all the feedback and opinions. I still cannot see paying an extra 600-700 bucks just so you can say you have a "real" VZ. I am also not convinced that the Czechpoint will last any longer or perform any better than a good Century. I went out with my buddy yesterday and did some more shooting, VZ2008 and VZ58 and everything was a wash. Even groups were within the margin of error. I see the same kind of elitism in cycling (yes I wear those tight shorts and block the flow of traffic). A few years ago I bought an aluminum bike and paid about 1300.00 for it. Of course, "serious cyclists" will only buy Carbon fiber bikes for 3000.00 and up. I bought the bike i did because it worked and worked on my budget. It is a race bike with the same geometry and components as the carbon fiber bikes, but its a fraction of the cost. When I go to races, the Carbon guys look down on me. But at the end of the race I look back at them. They forget that the best equipment in the world cannot trump good old fashioned hard work. That's the way I see this debate. Whatever you have be thankful you have it and shoot the crap out of it and get good at it. The VZ2008 is as much a VZ as the Czechpoint. Pretty finishes and chrome does not a VZ make. Just my opinion I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a czechpoint. They are nice rifles. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. AND More power to you if you think paying extra for a quality built vz 58 is not justified (move on) here's something I know your gonna like...would you pay between $1250-1350 for a czechpoint built vz58? I did not think so...obviously as we speak there is only one left since czechpoint released their first in house built vz58s using csa tooling/receivers/original cold hammer forged chromelined barrels etc... they seem to have no problems selling them at those prices. Can you tell me what justifies the price for these vz2008s? http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-wood-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4623.html http://www.jgsales.com/cai-vz2008-sporter-ak-style-rifle,-7.62x39,-with-composite-stock,-milled-receiver.-p-4624.html In your honest opinion would you pay that price for one or would you get a csa/czechpoint instead? Why? I wouldn't buy one of those when I can get the same gun for 400-500. However, if the day comes that the Century and the Czechpoint are the same price or within a few dollars of each other . . . sure I'd buy the Czechpoint. Maybe even for 50 more. I personally like chrome-lined barrels. But whats your point? What's your point to this thread you started? I'm gonna say this again and again base your justifications on FACTS between the two, which I gave to the best of my knowledge owning both. Seems people who do their research to find out the facts between the two and decide to purchase a czechpoint vz58 really bothers you that they paid $700 more than your cheap-r century arms vz2008. I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a Czechpoint. They are nice rifles, really nice. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. And I thought that if I missed something you and others would point that out. You pointed it out and I thank you for it. But I still don't see how the FACTS justify the cost. Again, my opinion. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 12:41:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a Czechpoint. They are nice rifles, really nice. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. And I thought that if I missed something you and others would point that out. You pointed it out and I thank you for it. But I still don't see how the FACTS justify the cost. Again, my opinion. This. I have zero issues with one who wants a czech point. I just personally do not believe its worth 700 dollars for one over that of a century. 700 can buy alot. Just for fun - pictured below is roughly 580 (TOTAL) 
That STILL leaves me with a VZ 2008 and 100 or so dollars. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 9:27:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I have zero issues with one who wants a czech point. I just personally do not believe its worth 700 dollars for one over that of a century. 700 can buy alot. Just for fun - pictured below is roughly 580 (TOTAL) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15394194453_d27de1512e_b.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16013738825_1c0b19a8f0_b.jpg That STILL leaves me with a VZ 2008 and 100 or so dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a Czechpoint. They are nice rifles, really nice. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. And I thought that if I missed something you and others would point that out. You pointed it out and I thank you for it. But I still don't see how the FACTS justify the cost. Again, my opinion. This. I have zero issues with one who wants a czech point. I just personally do not believe its worth 700 dollars for one over that of a century. 700 can buy alot. Just for fun - pictured below is roughly 580 (TOTAL) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15394194453_d27de1512e_b.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16013738825_1c0b19a8f0_b.jpg That STILL leaves me with a VZ 2008 and 100 or so dollars. Nice guns bro! Re those reproductions? |
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Posted: 1/4/2015 2:37:42 AM EDT
[#26]
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Nice guns bro! Re those reproductions? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I never said it bothered me. I could care less if you or anyone else wants a Czechpoint. They are nice rifles, really nice. I simply asked if the differences between the 2 justify the big differential in price. And I thought that if I missed something you and others would point that out. You pointed it out and I thank you for it. But I still don't see how the FACTS justify the cost. Again, my opinion. This. I have zero issues with one who wants a czech point. I just personally do not believe its worth 700 dollars for one over that of a century. 700 can buy alot. Just for fun - pictured below is roughly 580 (TOTAL) https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7521/15394194453_d27de1512e_b.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16013738825_1c0b19a8f0_b.jpg That STILL leaves me with a VZ 2008 and 100 or so dollars. Nice guns bro! Re those reproductions? Yes, all are Uberti and are very true to the original (i have/do own the originals). I suggest you never get into black powder.. its DAMN addicting and fun as hell. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 11:14:38 AM EDT
[#27]
CSA Pros:
*Carrier is tabbed *.311 chrome lined barrel *Nicer finish *5 Year Warranty (vs only 1 year for Century) *Factory tested VZ2008 Pros: *Barrel is threaded *Green Mountain barrel *Last shot bolt hold open Am I missing anything?? |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 5:22:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CSA Pros: *Carrier is tabbed *.311 chrome lined barrel *Nicer finish *5 Year Warranty (vs only 1 year for Century) *Factory tested VZ2008 Pros: *Barrel is threaded *Green Mountain barrel *Last shot bolt hold open Am I missing anything?? vz2008 gives you the bayonet lug. |
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Posted: 1/14/2015 6:48:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
vz2008 gives you the bayonet lug. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
CSA Pros: *Carrier is tabbed *.311 chrome lined barrel *Nicer finish *5 Year Warranty (vs only 1 year for Century) *Factory tested VZ2008 Pros: *Barrel is threaded *Green Mountain barrel *Last shot bolt hold open Am I missing anything?? vz2008 gives you the bayonet lug. 1. Csa also produces the vz58/scorpion for Military/Law Enforcement/civilian 2. CSA firearms are sold in 15+ countries 3. CSA properly hardens the locking lugs/rails/receiver using heat induction then quenched in oil. Then you have a properly hardened receiver 4. Lost the old link but, csa vz58 serial #001 went through testing if I remember correctly either 5 or 10k rounds through it for testing 5. They have pistol versions In 5.56 and 7.62x39 6. They have the vz58 rifle In 5.56 |
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Posted: 1/15/2015 3:49:54 PM EDT
[#30]
The concern of bore diameter is not really an issue, as 7.62x39 caliber barrels are made all over the world with specs of .308 to in excess of .312 groove diameter. There is no actual established standard. .308 diameter will work as well as .311.
And the older I get, the more I notice that chrome lined hammer forged barrels are little more than the latest version of bling. One slight neg for the CSA VZ58 that wasn't mentioned is the plastic trigger. I actuality do prefer the metal one, and I recall that some aftermarket company makes a steel replacement. |
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Posted: 1/15/2015 4:32:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The concern of bore diameter is not really an issue, as 7.62x39 caliber barrels are made all over the world with specs of .308 to in excess of .312 groove diameter. There is no actual established standard. .308 diameter will work as well as .311. And the older I get, the more I notice that chrome lined hammer forged barrels are little more than the latest version of bling. One slight neg for the CSA VZ58 that wasn't mentioned is the plastic trigger. I actuality do prefer the metal one, and I recall that some aftermarket company makes a steel replacement. Years ago when I purchased my vz2008 and shot it side by side with my csa vz58...the 2008 had way more kick than my csa...significantly more that it bothered me...thinking why? Found out it was a US barrel...slugged the bore and came out to .308 did it twice to confirm. Then slugged my csavz58/Romy Cugir built PSL/ original vz58 parts kit/original barrel and all checked out at .311-312....not even close to .308. Then I pulled some bullet heads surplus 7.62x54r/brown bear 7.62x39 all measured .311-.312, and measured Berger 7.62x51(.308) HPFB measured .308. I'm no expert but thinking shooting a .311-.312 bullet out of a .308 barrel, I would think bigger bullet ever so slightly squeezing itself outa a smaller barrel would cause some slightly higher pressure resulting in the extra kick I was experiencing. are the vz2008 barrels hammer forged? How long would the barrel last shooting .311-.312 outa the .308 barrels? It's not even chrome lined thus would also help on barrel life. As for the plastic trigger on my czusa vz58 I would not consider it a "negative" as I've been shooting this rifle going on 7years and couple thousand rounds through it still no issues. I have a steel trigger standing by, so far so good. Never heard of the plastic trigger breaking anywhere...only owners who wanted a steel trigger instead. |
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Posted: 1/15/2015 5:03:19 PM EDT
[#32]
If you fired the vz2008 in the configuration depicted in your photo, then yes, you did feel more pronounced kick. The slant AK style muzzle brake that Century put on the vz2008 was the first thing I took off as it is a bad use of the AK part that does not translate to the physics of the vz. Try a plain muzzle nut. Or a brake like your vz58 has - you know - to reduce felt recoil...
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Posted: 1/15/2015 5:24:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you fired the vz2008 in the configuration depicted in your photo, then yes, you did feel more pronounced kick. The slant AK style muzzle brake that Century put on the vz2008 was the first thing I took off as it is a bad use of the AK part that does not translate to the physics of the vz. Try a plain muzzle nut. Or a brake like your vz58 has - you know - to reduce felt recoil... I have also shot the 2008 without the slant brake... Still felt the same. Even when my vz58 had the permanent extension(non-brake) hardly has a kick as compared to the vz2008...recently sold my csavz58 sporter thumbhole stock with the permanent barrel extension and still not as bad as the 2008. |
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Posted: 1/15/2015 5:43:08 PM EDT
[#34]
The point is there are too many variables to determine that the insignificant bore groove diameter difference is the cause of your "felt recoil" issue. Felt recoil is a perception; it could be the differing barrel lengths, could be the weight difference in the barrels with whatever devices were fitted or a weight difference in the stocks of the two guns, could be you might want to try a muzzle brake on the rifle if it bothers you.
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Posted: 1/15/2015 6:58:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. Csa also produces the vz58/scorpion for Military/Law Enforcement/civilian 2. CSA firearms are sold in 15+ countries 3. CSA properly hardens the locking lugs/rails/receiver using heat induction then quenched in oil. Then you have a properly hardened receiver 4. Lost the old link but, csa vz58 serial #001 went through testing if I remember correctly either 5 or 10k rounds through it for testing 5. They have pistol versions In 5.56 and 7.62x39 6. They have the vz58 rifle In 5.56 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
CSA Pros: *Carrier is tabbed *.311 chrome lined barrel *Nicer finish *5 Year Warranty (vs only 1 year for Century) *Factory tested VZ2008 Pros: *Barrel is threaded *Green Mountain barrel *Last shot bolt hold open Am I missing anything?? vz2008 gives you the bayonet lug. 1. Csa also produces the vz58/scorpion for Military/Law Enforcement/civilian 2. CSA firearms are sold in 15+ countries 3. CSA properly hardens the locking lugs/rails/receiver using heat induction then quenched in oil. Then you have a properly hardened receiver 4. Lost the old link but, csa vz58 serial #001 went through testing if I remember correctly either 5 or 10k rounds through it for testing 5. They have pistol versions In 5.56 and 7.62x39 6. They have the vz58 rifle In 5.56 Regarding #3, do you know if Century does this with the VZ2008? If no, how do they do it? |
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Posted: 1/16/2015 7:57:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding #3, do you know if Century does this with the VZ2008? If no, how do they do it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
CSA Pros: *Carrier is tabbed *.311 chrome lined barrel *Nicer finish *5 Year Warranty (vs only 1 year for Century) *Factory tested VZ2008 Pros: *Barrel is threaded *Green Mountain barrel *Last shot bolt hold open Am I missing anything?? vz2008 gives you the bayonet lug. 1. Csa also produces the vz58/scorpion for Military/Law Enforcement/civilian 2. CSA firearms are sold in 15+ countries 3. CSA properly hardens the locking lugs/rails/receiver using heat induction then quenched in oil. Then you have a properly hardened receiver 4. Lost the old link but, csa vz58 serial #001 went through testing if I remember correctly either 5 or 10k rounds through it for testing 5. They have pistol versions In 5.56 and 7.62x39 6. They have the vz58 rifle In 5.56 Regarding #3, do you know if Century does this with the VZ2008? If no, how do they do it? I have no idea if century arms properly heat treat their rails etc... |
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Posted: 1/16/2015 12:54:33 PM EDT
[#37]
CSA VZ58 is the way to go, I now have two about to go for three.
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Posted: 1/16/2015 8:59:51 PM EDT
[#38]
"I have no idea if century arms properly heat treat their rails etc..." Well, Century doesn't build the VZ2008, they just market it, it's built by a sub contractor shop that's know to do very good work. I believe the whole receiver is heat treated in a oven as billets of steel are treated, but I'm not 100% sure. If the lugs were not treated there would be noticeable peening after just a few hundred rounds and there would be pictures of it all over the net. This comparison is moot. Two cars, each will get you where you want to go, one has chrome rims and nice paint and cost more, the other doesn't and cost less. Get it ? I would say there are probably 10x more VZ2008's out there than CzechPoint VZ58's, and those VZ2008's are getting used and abused, and I've yet to hear of anyone wearing out the barrel or the rifle falling apart. It's a utility rifle, load it, shoot it, and have fun. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 12:07:55 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I have no idea if century arms properly heat treat their rails etc..." Well, Century doesn't build the VZ2008, they just market it, it's built by a sub contractor shop that's know to do very good work. I believe the whole receiver is heat treated in a oven as billets of steel are treated, but I'm not 100% sure. If the lugs were not treated there would be noticeable peening after just a few hundred rounds and there would be pictures of it all over the net. This comparison is moot. Two cars, each will get you where you want to go, one has chrome rims and nice paint and cost more, the other doesn't and cost less. Get it ? I would say there are probably 10x more VZ2008's out there than CzechPoint VZ58's, and those VZ2008's are getting used and abused, and I've yet to hear of anyone wearing out the barrel or the rifle falling apart. It's a utility rifle, load it, shoot it, and have fun. /thread |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 2:01:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"I have no idea if century arms properly heat treat their rails etc..." Well, Century doesn't build the VZ2008, they just market it, it's built by a sub contractor shop that's know to do very good work. I believe the whole receiver is heat treated in a oven as billets of steel are treated, but I'm not 100% sure. If the lugs were not treated there would be noticeable peening after just a few hundred rounds and there would be pictures of it all over the net. This comparison is moot. Two cars, each will get you where you want to go, one has chrome rims and nice paint and cost more, the other doesn't and cost less. Get it ? I would say there are probably 10x more VZ2008's out there than CzechPoint VZ58's, and those VZ2008's are getting used and abused, and I've yet to hear of anyone wearing out the barrel or the rifle falling apart. It's a utility rifle, load it, shoot it, and have fun. Isn't that the whole idea shoot it and have fun? But those who start threads like this oh well ...they will get some response to this thread "this VS that" Well, if century doesn't build it.....doesn't really matter cause their name is on it (reputation)....oh wait or is it the sub contractors reputation on the line. So you say if the lugs were not treated there would be noticeable peening after just a few hundred rounds, and their would be pics all over the net....Well..so far these are from vz2008 owners rifles showing some gouging and serious metal to metal , I wonder if the contractor/century ever considered checking their tolerances. Or maybe when vz2008 owners see this....they get feed back from other owners sayin "mine does that and it's normal" well....just a few pics vz2008 owners with little to allot of rounds shot through it Vz2008 
Vz2008 with only a few rounds through it 
Vz2008 
Vz2008 
My csa/czechpoint vz58 purchased in 2008, going on 7 years probably had more rounds down the barrel with all those vz2008 combined 
Or maybe we should go and shoot them, and enjoy them.....Regardless I'm just waiting for century to come out with their vz805 Bren version, hopefully their price still within $399.....LOL |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:03:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Good pics, you forgot to post the ones of the Czech military VZ58's that have the same peening, and the quote from the guy at Czech Point saying it was normal, and goes to a point then stops, or explain how the peening is not on the lugs or a critical part of the receiver, that's it's the rail the striker rides on, and how it in no way affects the function of the rifle. Ya, for the $399 I paid for my VZ2008, I could live with a little peening on a striker rail that can be found on any VZ58 to one degree or another. I also drive a beat up Ford Focus with 210,000 miles , so to each his own.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34088.msg188021 |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:47:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good pics, you forgot to post the ones of the Czech military VZ58's that have the same peening, and the quote from the guy at Czech Point saying it was normal, and goes to a point then stops, or explain how the peening is not on the lugs or a critical part of the receiver, that's it's the rail the striker rides on, and how it in no way affects the function of the rifle. Ya, for the $399 I paid for my VZ2008, I could live with a little peening on a striker rail that can be found on any VZ58 to one degree or another. I also drive a beat up Ford Focus with 210,000 miles , so to each his own. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34088.msg188021 Indeed, that and the pic he provides of his vz58 shows the same peening, not to mention the mangled bolt hold open that looks to need replacing. Also left out of the conversation is the fact that the latest production of CSA vz58's now come with a commercial button rifled barrel rather similar to the vz2008 one, the CSA one is advertised as made by Lothar Walther in Georgia. They've apparantly run out of the surplus barrels... |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 6:54:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good pics, you forgot to post the ones of the Czech military VZ58's that have the same peening, and the quote from the guy at Czech Point saying it was normal, and goes to a point then stops, or explain how the peening is not on the lugs or a critical part of the receiver, that's it's the rail the striker rides on, and how it in no way affects the function of the rifle. Ya, for the $399 I paid for my VZ2008, I could live with a little peening on a striker rail that can be found on any VZ58 to one degree or another. I also drive a beat up Ford Focus with 210,000 miles , so to each his own. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34088.msg188021 Wow...seriously, am I wrong with posting facts on both platforms? Through my own experience and showing the difference between the two? I think those who are thinking of getting into the vz58 should at least need to know what their getting into regarding both brands....do you agree? It don't bother me at all that you posted that above. You should feel really proud of yourself. Just cause I started a thread on that forum "is the vz58 more accurate than the ak47". And I mentioned I'm a fan of both platforms, and would have fun shooting at the range with results...and also invited those who also have an ak to give it a go...I got the X. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:28:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed, that and the pic he provides of his vz58 shows the same peening, not to mention the mangled bolt hold open that looks to need replacing. Also left out of the conversation is the fact that the latest production of CSA vz58's now come with a commercial button rifled barrel rather similar to the vz2008 one, the CSA one is advertised as made by Lothar Walther in Georgia. They've apparantly run out of the surplus barrels... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good pics, you forgot to post the ones of the Czech military VZ58's that have the same peening, and the quote from the guy at Czech Point saying it was normal, and goes to a point then stops, or explain how the peening is not on the lugs or a critical part of the receiver, that's it's the rail the striker rides on, and how it in no way affects the function of the rifle. Ya, for the $399 I paid for my VZ2008, I could live with a little peening on a striker rail that can be found on any VZ58 to one degree or another. I also drive a beat up Ford Focus with 210,000 miles , so to each his own. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34088.msg188021 Indeed, that and the pic he provides of his vz58 shows the same peening, not to mention the mangled bolt hold open that looks to need replacing. Also left out of the conversation is the fact that the latest production of CSA vz58's now come with a commercial button rifled barrel rather similar to the vz2008 one, the CSA one is advertised as made by Lothar Walther in Georgia. They've apparantly run out of the surplus barrels... I'd like to see where your got that info that the barrels are made by lothar walther in georgia..... Last I checked on czechpoint website" the new production barrels are manufactured by Lothar Walther in Germany and are Chromed,lined. Again...where are you getting your info that "they've apparently run out of surplus barrels"? Assuming? I'd like to see a vz2008 7yrs from now how it holds up, cause my czechpoint vz is going on 7years...judging by my experience looks like it will go another 7+Years, and never replaced or modified anything, hell even the mag catch still works. the vz2008? |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 7:44:59 AM EDT
[#45]
It's a bit of advertising sleight of hand, Lothar Walther is a certainly German company, but their US manufacturing division is in Cumming, Georgia. Has been for many years.
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Posted: 1/17/2015 1:59:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Here is a link to a guy that compares both the VZ-58 and VZ-2008. It is interesting to read the difference. There was nothing in the write up to sway me one way or the other.
VZ-58 vs VZ-2008 Read it and see what you think. |
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Posted: 1/17/2015 4:44:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Another vz2008 with its owner on another forum concerned about the peening on his rails...he only shot about 300 rounds. He sent pics to century arms, their reply was to send it back..their reply "citing heat treating a likely cause"
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Posted: 1/17/2015 8:41:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another vz2008 with its owner on another forum concerned about the peening on his rails...he only shot about 300 rounds. He sent pics to century arms, their reply was to send it back..their reply "citing heat treating a likely cause" http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg544/sr16ve2/imagejpg1_zpsefa34f21.jpg Okay, okay, you win; I just threw my VZ2008 in the lake, please everyone get rid of your VZ2008 and buy a $1000+ Czech Point so this guy can get back to the AR15 forum to tell everyone that every AR that isn't made by Bravo or DD is junk. 
I'm done with this thread.
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Posted: 1/18/2015 12:06:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Do the VZ58 barrels come threaded now?
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Posted: 1/18/2015 4:46:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, okay, you win; I just threw my VZ2008 in the lake, please everyone get rid of your VZ2008 and buy a $1000+ Czech Point so this guy can get back to the AR15 forum to tell everyone that every AR that isn't made by Bravo or DD is junk.
I'm done with this thread.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Another vz2008 with its owner on another forum concerned about the peening on his rails...he only shot about 300 rounds. He sent pics to century arms, their reply was to send it back..their reply "citing heat treating a likely cause" http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg544/sr16ve2/imagejpg1_zpsefa34f21.jpg Okay, okay, you win; I just threw my VZ2008 in the lake, please everyone get rid of your VZ2008 and buy a $1000+ Czech Point so this guy can get back to the AR15 forum to tell everyone that every AR that isn't made by Bravo or DD is junk.
I'm done with this thread.
It's not about wining anything....so please retrieve your rifle from the lake. And please don't encourage other vz2008s to do likewise....with all the info on the net regarding csa/czechpoint and the century's build vz2008, including this thread...will hopefully be informative on both platforms and educate the newbies on the differences between the two. But in the end it's their choice.. In regards to the ar15.....why would I do that, I owne a BM M4 LE (currently has a Sabre Defence custom deluxe upper) same year I purchased my vz58. One thing I know for a fact my Bushmaster LE is not made by century arms. |
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