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Posted: 2/27/2012 4:12:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Yikes. Tag for outcome.
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Posted: 2/27/2012 4:22:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Can you post photos?
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Posted: 2/27/2012 4:27:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Want to see pictures of mayhem. That way the easier to berate and ridicule the rifle in question. Hope you did not get injured.
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Posted: 2/27/2012 4:52:54 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm fine, I suffered minor scrapes from the magazine exploding onto a bare arm. This is my first AK and honestly I don't know a whole lot about them. I don't even know if the kaboom can be attributed to the rifle that's why I asked if it could have fired out of battery since it has a spring loaded firing pin. I'm guessing Arsenal will say call the ammo company, but who knows...such is my life.
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Posted: 2/27/2012 5:45:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I'm fine, I suffered minor scrapes from the magazine exploding onto a bare arm. This is my first AK and honestly I don't know a whole lot about them. I don't even know if the kaboom can be attributed to the rifle that's why I asked if it could have fired out of battery since it has a spring loaded firing pin. I'm guessing Arsenal will say call the ammo company, but who knows...such is my life. I would talk to the guy who sold you the gun. Depending on how old the FR is, it may or may not have come from the factory with the chamber properly ramped. There are some owners who have attempted to ramp the chamber themselves resulting in kabooms. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:10:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm fine, I suffered minor scrapes from the magazine exploding onto a bare arm. This is my first AK and honestly I don't know a whole lot about them. I don't even know if the kaboom can be attributed to the rifle that's why I asked if it could have fired out of battery since it has a spring loaded firing pin. I'm guessing Arsenal will say call the ammo company, but who knows...such is my life. I would talk to the guy who sold you the gun. Depending on how old the FR is, it may or may not have come from the factory with the chamber properly ramped. There are some owners who have attempted to ramp the chamber themselves resulting in kabooms. The guy I got it from is incapable of doing anything like that, so that is a non-issue. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 6:16:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Wow! Glad you're OK!
Please post pics of the rifle if you can. |
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Posted: 2/28/2012 9:31:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Pics!! Glad no one was hurt.
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Posted: 3/2/2012 4:01:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Any word yet? Got any carnage pics? Curious to see what happens, hopefully it gets worked out between you and Kvar without much of a fuss.
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Posted: 3/2/2012 4:06:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Pics are now up.
Update: Arsenal called me today and they want me to send the rifle in to be looked at. I told them them the rifle was bought new this past August because they have a one year warranty. The rifle appeared to be new, but Arsenal said it's four freakin' years old! The lady was nice and said it may have sat in a warehouse or at a shop for a while but we'll see. |
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Posted: 3/2/2012 4:38:37 PM EDT
[#11]
The receiver is damaged too. You can see the bulging. I hope they take care of you. Don't be surprised if you have to pay for return shipping.
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Posted: 3/2/2012 5:10:45 PM EDT
[#12]
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting?
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Posted: 3/2/2012 6:07:40 PM EDT
[#13]
K
Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? Ive thought of that and I would if it was a wasr but I don't want a thousand dollar ak with hammer rash. |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 7:51:22 AM EDT
[#14]
I'd really like to know if it was ammo or the setup/headspacing of the gun.
Will probably never know, but hopefully they'll fix it with no hassles. What brand of ammo was being used? |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 3:45:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I'd really like to know if it was ammo or the setup/headspacing of the gun. Will probably never know, but hopefully they'll fix it with no hassles. What brand of ammo was being used? It was Federal ammo. |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 7:31:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Like anything in this situation, can;t be 100% certain. But just looking at the damages I beleive without too much doubt that the round never chambered all the way. It fired before full lock up. It could have been due to a stuck firing pin, debris in the firing pin channel or even possibly a primer that was not set quite right, and came in contact with the pin or debris before reaching full closed.
One thing that sticks out to me is that the trunion ears that the bolt locks into appear undamged. An overcharged round would have ripped those off I am sure, at least the weak side anyway. JMHO Tread |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 7:40:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Was the ammo crimped around the case mouth?
That's appears to be a case head separation but looks to have blown upward. If it was an undercut feedramp issue then it would have blown downward- or perhaps I can't tell given the pics. Please let us know which was it appears the pressure went as this makes a huge difference as the culprit of the issue. 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 7:47:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Pressure looks to have blown upward judging by the third picture in the series, so this is not a feedramp issue per se' being undercut, however- definitely over pressure. Again, were the rounds crimped around the case mouth? And to the guy thinking that the trunnion lugs would have been sheared in the event of an over-pressure, no, they would not. AK's are way over engineered in this aspect along with tempered components and were designed not to "grenade" if they run into an over pressure round. What is your serial number beginning letters? AB? BE? Please let us know because this would be an indicator as well if the weapon was properly cut for the feedramp or not. Finally, how many rounds have you fired prior?
Thanks, 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 8:49:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Pressure looks to have blown upward judging by the third picture in the series, so this is not a feedramp issue per se' being undercut, however- definitely over pressure. Again, were the rounds crimped around the case mouth? And to the guy thinking that the trunnion lugs would have been sheared in the event of an over-pressure, no, they would not. AK's are way over engineered in this aspect along with tempered components and were designed not to "grenade" if they run into an over pressure round. What is your serial number beginning letters? AB? BE? Please let us know because this would be an indicator as well if the weapon was properly cut for the feedramp or not. Finally, how many rounds have you fired prior? Thanks, 7n6 They were factory rounds so I would assume they were all crimped. I don't have the rifle with me, but I believe the letters are "BD". The rifle only had about 100 rounds through it before this. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 9:27:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
They were factory rounds so I would assume they were all crimped. I don't have the rifle with me, but I believe the letters are "BD". The rifle only had about 100 rounds through it before this. It very likely was a double charged round. The BD series would have the feed ramp bevel to some degree and should have had the enhanced feedramp bevel if I remember correctly. Federal factory ammo should have a crimped case mouth. So, even without the extended feedramp bevel, at most, you would have had some failures to feed or rounds being damaged while entering the chamber- not bullet set back. The fact that it fired fine for the hundreds of rounds you ran through it, if not the additional thousands of rounds your buddy ran through it, shows it wasn't a head space issue neither. In addition, if the ramp itself had been undercut to far, then the case failure would have been on the bottom of the casing, not the top- as pictured. I'd be contacting Federal on this one. Luckily you were behind a hardened steel AK otherwise you might be missing some digits. 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 9:51:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer.
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Posted: 3/5/2012 10:38:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer. I'll get some pics in the morning, I'm about to go into work now. I know it's hard to convey the exact condition of a weapon on the interwebs, but the rifle was purchased new by my friend who shot less than 100 rounds through it. I shot a mag and a half when this happened. I was present the only time he ever shot it so I know for a fact that it wasn't ever bump fired or abused. It very well may have been an ammo issue. I've been in contact with Arsenal and I asked them what charges I'd be liable for if it proves to be an ammo issue. I really don't have the $$$ to spend after buying the rifle so I'll just keep it and find a way to straighten the receiver out if they charge me for shipping and repairs. The nice lady, Annette, said she'll ask the production manager about possible charges and get back to me. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 10:40:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer. I'll get some pics in the morning, I'm about to go into work now. I know it's hard to convey the exact condition of a weapon on the interwebs, but the rifle was purchased new by my friend who shot less than 100 rounds through it. I shot a mag and a half when this happened. I was present the only time he ever shot it so I know for a fact that it wasn't ever bump fired or abused. It very well may have been an ammo issue. I've been in contact with Arsenal and I asked them what cahrges I'd be liable for if it proves to be an ammo issue. I really don't have the $$$ to spend a buyftering the rifle so I'll just keep it and find a way to straighten the receiver out if they charge me for shipping and repairs. They will replace it if it was the rifle. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 10:42:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer. I'll get some pics in the morning, I'm about to go into work now. I know it's hard to convey the exact condition of a weapon on the interwebs, but the rifle was purchased new by my friend who shot less than 100 rounds through it. I shot a mag and a half when this happened. I was present the only time he ever shot it so I know for a fact that it wasn't ever bump fired or abused. It very well may have been an ammo issue. I've been in contact with Arsenal and I asked them what cahrges I'd be liable for if it proves to be an ammo issue. I really don't have the $$$ to spend a buyftering the rifle so I'll just keep it and find a way to straighten the receiver out if they charge me for shipping and repairs. They will replace it if it was the rifle. Damn you're quick..haha I'm going to send it in and see what they say. |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 11:27:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer. I'll get some pics in the morning, I'm about to go into work now. I know it's hard to convey the exact condition of a weapon on the interwebs, but the rifle was purchased new by my friend who shot less than 100 rounds through it. I shot a mag and a half when this happened. I was present the only time he ever shot it so I know for a fact that it wasn't ever bump fired or abused. It very well may have been an ammo issue. I've been in contact with Arsenal and I asked them what cahrges I'd be liable for if it proves to be an ammo issue. I really don't have the $$$ to spend a buyftering the rifle so I'll just keep it and find a way to straighten the receiver out if they charge me for shipping and repairs. They will replace it if it was the rifle. Damn you're quick..haha I'm going to send it in and see what they say. I had no way of knowing how many rounds your buddy fired through. You can tell pretty quick if the tail on the carrier is rounded over enough to allow the hammer to contact the firing pin and set it off out of battery. 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 5:08:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Federal commerical brass is very soft. My 106 actually creases the brass, sometimes severely, as the bcg moves back; I also had my only failure to feed with the stuff. The bullet was push back into the case pretty good, that's when I noticed the damage of the next round in the mag. Due to fire forming I didn't see the problem until I had the stopage. I will not use this stuff in my 106 ever. Other brass cases from Winchester (WCC), Lake City, and basically anything using mil spec brass works fine and doesn't distort. Of course steel cases work fine as well.
I'll bet the issue was a severely dented case being chambered (mine had a crease that looked like some pics of proof rounds I've found), due to the rifles natural cycling; or a bullet set back that managed to still chamber. That resulted in a higher pressure than the already soft brass could handle. Honestly I'm going to say fault is 50/50 - ammo/rifle: Federal's commerical brass is too soft since the rilfe won't have the issue with mil spec and steel cases and the 106's bcg design, being really a AKM where as Russians use a `74 set-up, is rough on remaining brass in the mag. |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 12:57:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Post a photo of the tab on the back of the bolt carrier. The only other culprit is that someone liked to bump fire and rounded off the safety tab on the carrier- coupled with light Federal primers, KB. This will give you the final answer. Light primers shouldn't be an issue with a spring loaded FP. I'm very interested in the outcome of this, There's 3 Arsenal 106 variants living under my roof. Might just have to start buying Tula Ammo, or Silver Bear again. 
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Posted: 3/6/2012 3:55:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Your dealing with Arsenal on this but you should be dealing with federal.... Arsenal may give you the hookup but when it comes down to it Federal is the one that should be replacing your rifle. I had a buddies 45cal Uzi blow up due to some Win ammo. Destroyed the gun pretty much. Sent pics to them to start then the gun for review. They ended up paying fair market on it to replace it.
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Posted: 3/6/2012 6:43:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Your dealing with Arsenal on this but you should be dealing with federal.... Arsenal may give you the hookup but when it comes down to it Federal is the one that should be replacing your rifle. I had a buddies 45cal Uzi blow up due to some Win ammo. Destroyed the gun pretty much. Sent pics to them to start then the gun for review. They ended up paying fair market on it to replace it. I'm still not convinced it's an ammo issue. |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 11:27:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your dealing with Arsenal on this but you should be dealing with federal.... Arsenal may give you the hookup but when it comes down to it Federal is the one that should be replacing your rifle. I had a buddies 45cal Uzi blow up due to some Win ammo. Destroyed the gun pretty much. Sent pics to them to start then the gun for review. They ended up paying fair market on it to replace it. I'm still not convinced it's an ammo issue. I am now completely convinced given the photos and that you are certain it has only a couple hundred rounds through it. If it doesn't have the tab rounded off on the carrier- then no way it fired out of battery. The pics clearly show the casing blew out at the top so it isn't a feed ramp issue neither. It's also not a headspace issue because the rifle fired fine prior. You got a double charged load, simple as that. You are lucky you were behind an AK when it happened. I'd be calling Federal on this as well. 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 12:15:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your dealing with Arsenal on this but you should be dealing with federal.... Arsenal may give you the hookup but when it comes down to it Federal is the one that should be replacing your rifle. I had a buddies 45cal Uzi blow up due to some Win ammo. Destroyed the gun pretty much. Sent pics to them to start then the gun for review. They ended up paying fair market on it to replace it. I'm still not convinced it's an ammo issue. I am now completely convinced given the photos and that you are certain it has only a couple hundred rounds through it. If it doesn't have the tab rounded off on the carrier- then no way it fired out of battery. The pics clearly show the casing blew out at the top so it isn't a feed ramp issue neither. It's also not a headspace issue because the rifle fired fine prior. You got a double charged load, simple as that. You are lucky you were behind an AK when it happened. I'd be calling Federal on this as well. 7n6 When you say top do you mean the top of the case or where the gas came out under the bolt? If you mean the case its just the way I took the pic to show the damage. The case blew out on the side where the extractor grabs the case. The blown off piece was still in the extractor. Also I need to explain why I said fired out of battery. I didn't mean the bolt wasn't closed. I am thinking the bolt went home but the carrier didn't lock the bolt. So when it fired the bolt was somewhat unsupported allowing the firing pin to be struck but without proper support from the bolt carrier. I hope that makes sense. |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 1:05:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Watch the video reread 7ns's post.
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Posted: 3/6/2012 2:47:10 PM EDT
[#33]
I got what he is saying. I haven't looked at the bolt yet. |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 9:14:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
When you say top do you mean the top of the case or where the gas came out under the bolt? If you mean the case its just the way I took the pic to show the damage. The case blew out on the side where the extractor grabs the case. The blown off piece was still in the extractor. Also I need to explain why I said fired out of battery. I didn't mean the bolt wasn't closed. I am thinking the bolt went home but the carrier didn't lock the bolt. So when it fired the bolt was somewhat unsupported allowing the firing pin to be struck but without proper support from the bolt carrier. I hope that makes sense. Elimination: Carrier can't close until the bolt locks. Firing pin isn't even exposed to the hammer until the bolt is locked unless the tab on the carrier is damaged or rounded over. However not with so few rounds. Debris may have gotten into the firing pin channel keeping the pin exposed. However, the casing itself doesn't seat onto the bolt face until the case shoulder hits the inside of the chamber forcing the extractor over the case rim. Even with the hammer riding the carrier, the pin is not exposed until the bolt has rotated over from the cam groove locking the action. So that brings us back to square one, the round itself being over charged or you had a case rim failure. Here is why, the pressure blew out of the casing along the top edge portion of the case rim area. However the casing piece that is still lodged in your extractor I'm betting came from just shy of the 3 o clock area of the casing, not directly on the right side of the casing itself nor the top of the casing. Showing that when it blew, the bolt itself was locked. When that sucker touched off the pressure was so high that it "welded" that casing to the chamber and your extractor just ripped right through the case rim, except in this case, the entire base of the casing came with it because of the excessive pressure. The rest of the pressure remaining in the barrel- bled out threw the opening at the case rim, damaging your receiver along with escaping through the magwell. My only question is, did the topcover actually stay on? Amazing, anything else less than an AK and you would have been in the hospital. I am still amazed by Kalashnikov's even after all these years. 7n6 |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 9:31:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
When you say top do you mean the top of the case or where the gas came out under the bolt? If you mean the case its just the way I took the pic to show the damage. The case blew out on the side where the extractor grabs the case. The blown off piece was still in the extractor. Also I need to explain why I said fired out of battery. I didn't mean the bolt wasn't closed. I am thinking the bolt went home but the carrier didn't lock the bolt. So when it fired the bolt was somewhat unsupported allowing the firing pin to be struck but without proper support from the bolt carrier. I hope that makes sense. Elimination: Carrier can't close until the bolt locks. Firing pin isn't even exposed to the hammer until the bolt is locked unless the tab on the carrier is damaged or rounded over. However not with so few rounds. Debris may have gotten into the firing pin channel keeping the pin exposed. However, the casing itself doesn't seat onto the bolt face until the case shoulder hits the inside of the chamber forcing the extractor over the case rim. Even with the hammer riding the carrier, the pin is not exposed until the bolt has rotated over from the cam groove locking the action. So that brings us back to square one, the round itself being over charged or you had a case rim failure. Here is why, the pressure blew out of the casing along the top edge portion of the case rim area. However the casing piece that is still lodged in your extractor I'm betting came from just shy of the 3 o clock area of the casing, not directly on the right side of the casing itself nor the top of the casing. Showing that when it blew, the bolt itself was locked. When that sucker touched off the pressure was so high that it "welded" that casing to the chamber and your extractor just ripped right through the case rim, except in this case, the entire base of the casing came with it because of the excessive pressure. The rest of the pressure remaining in the barrel- bled out threw the opening at the case rim, damaging your receiver along with escaping through the magwell. My only question is, did the topcover actually stay on? Amazing, anything else less than an AK and you would have been in the hospital. I am still amazed by Kalashnikov's even after all these years. 7n6 No, the top cover landed about 10 feet behind me. It was bent out of shape but that was an easy fix. |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 9:08:21 AM EDT
[#36]
My only question is, did the topcover actually stay on? Amazing, anything else less than an AK and you would have been in the hospital. I am still amazed by Kalashnikov's even after all these years.
I've seen several other rifles suffer case head separations/ out of battery events with little or no damage. Certainly less than in this case. On the other hand, I've seen more damage too. My personal experience: One case head failure in an ar, (Noveske shooting factory S&B ammo) the result ruined extractor and magazine, One case head failure in a nice russian SKS (using lapua factory ammo) result no damage, case head failure in a 10-22 result blown out extractor. I have never witnessed a kaboom in an AK so this is interesting for me. Sorry about your rifle OP glad you're OK. |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 6:06:47 PM EDT
[#37]
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue.
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Posted: 3/11/2012 7:47:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Alot of very knowledgeable replies on how the AK mechanism works in this thread.
After reading all the observations, I would guess with those who think the round chambered to the correct position, but was either overcharged, a case failure, or the nose impacted something internally and set back the bullet, causing overpressure. My understanding is other 5.56 and 5.45 AK designs are slightly different in how the round feeds vs. Arsenal 5.56 AKs, which are still designed like a 7.62x39 AK. I wonder if this leads to the bullet "nosing" into too much metal before chambering correctly, if it doesn't feed quite right. |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 5:31:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Alot of very knowledgeable replies on how the AK mechanism works in this thread. After reading all the observations, I would guess with those who think the round chambered to the correct position, but was either overcharged, a case failure, or the nose impacted something internally and set back the bullet, causing overpressure. My understanding is other 5.56 and 5.45 AK designs are slightly different in how the round feeds vs. Arsenal 5.56 AKs, which are still designed like a 7.62x39 AK. I wonder if this leads to the bullet "nosing" into too much metal before chambering correctly, if it doesn't feed quite right. I don't know what exactly happened, but it is fixed now. After I fixed it I went shooting with my buddy and his cousin. His cousin has a Saiga in 7.62. It was slamming the rounds into the barrel. It ended up being a mag issue, but he said once he converts it he'll add a ramp. |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 7:26:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 9:26:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. probably like this: Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? |
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Posted: 3/12/2012 4:49:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. probably like this: Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? Pretty much. After Arsenal explained that they would be happy to look at the rifle then told me it would be very expensive to repair if it was an ammo issue I decided to handle it myself. I field stripped the rifle and heated the receiver with a mapp torch and put a wood block in the receiver to brace the internals. All it took was a few light hammer strikes (9oz hammer) and the bow flattened. I heated the metal up again and quenched the receiver in used oil to maintain hardness. A quick trip under a wire wheel and 2-3 passes with an airbrush and it's back to looking/functioning like new. Even if you might think this was archaic and dumb considering it's an Arsenal, it's still an AK and it works and looks fine now. The bottom line is that I spent all my play money on the gun. It blows up the first time I shot it and have no money to ship it off and possibly inccur parts and labor plus return shipping because of one bad round. Arsenal said it would take at least 3-5 weeks turn around so for the cost of paint and 15 minutes I fixed it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2012 3:45:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. probably like this: Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? Pretty much. After Arsenal explained that they would be happy to look at the rifle then told me it would be very expensive to repair if it was an ammo issue I decided to hande it myself. I field stripped the rifle and heated the receiver with a mapp torch and put a wood block in the receiver to brace the internals. All it took was a few light hammer strikes (9oz hammer) and the bow flattened. I heated the metal up again and quenched the receiver in used oil to maintain hardness. A quick trip under a wire wheel and 2-3 passes with an airbrush and it's back to looking/functioning like new. Even if you might think this was archaic and dumb considering it's an Arsenal, it's still an AK and it works and looks fine now. The bottom line is that I spent all my play money on the gun. It blows up the first time I shot it and have no money to ship it off and possibly inccur parts and labor plus return shipping because of one bad round. Arsenal said it would take at least 3-5 weeks turn around so for the cost of paint and 15 minutes I fixed it. I agree with your statement. Plus, if you come into some money down the line, you can have it repaired professionally. How many times do you think AK's in the field have been fixed much like you described and fired for tens of thousands of rounds? I bet the thing will just be as accurate and reliable. You could have been a whiney little bitch, but you wore the daddy pants and got it done. Good for you, bro. |
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Posted: 3/13/2012 7:42:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. probably like this: Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? Pretty much. After Arsenal explained that they would be happy to look at the rifle then told me it would be very expensive to repair if it was an ammo issue I decided to hande it myself. I field stripped the rifle and heated the receiver with a mapp torch and put a wood block in the receiver to brace the internals. All it took was a few light hammer strikes (9oz hammer) and the bow flattened. I heated the metal up again and quenched the receiver in used oil to maintain hardness. A quick trip under a wire wheel and 2-3 passes with an airbrush and it's back to looking/functioning like new. Even if you might think this was archaic and dumb considering it's an Arsenal, it's still an AK and it works and looks fine now. The bottom line is that I spent all my play money on the gun. It blows up the first time I shot it and have no money to ship it off and possibly inccur parts and labor plus return shipping because of one bad round. Arsenal said it would take at least 3-5 weeks turn around so for the cost of paint and 15 minutes I fixed it. I agree with your statement. Plus, if you come into some money down the line, you can have it repaired professionally. How many times do you think AK's in the field have been fixed much like you described and fired for tens of thousands of rounds? I bet the thing will just be as accurate and reliable. You could have been a whiney little bitch, but you wore the daddy pants and got it done. Good for you, bro. Thank you for your support. Since this is my first AK I was kind of a bitchy whiner at first. I got to thinking, "If I was a Russian conscript and this happened in the field, what would I do? Oh, I'd throw it in a fire pit and smack it with a hammer!" That's when I stopped thinking about it and just did it. The rifle functions flawlessly and maintained accuracy. |
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Posted: 3/13/2012 7:44:32 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fixed the rifle myself because arsenal said it would either be free minus shipping both ways. Or it could cost a lot of money if it wasn't the gun. It wasn't hard. I had the gun checked by a local smith and he said it checks out though the receiver isnt perfectly smooth and the finish doesn't match. I'm happy with it and I fired about 200 rounds without an issue. How did you "fix it"? I would send it to Arsenal and have them look it over. probably like this: Quoted:
its an AK hit it with a hammer till it fits and go back to shooting? Pretty much. After Arsenal explained that they would be happy to look at the rifle then told me it would be very expensive to repair if it was an ammo issue I decided to hande it myself. I field stripped the rifle and heated the receiver with a mapp torch and put a wood block in the receiver to brace the internals. All it took was a few light hammer strikes (9oz hammer) and the bow flattened. I heated the metal up again and quenched the receiver in used oil to maintain hardness. A quick trip under a wire wheel and 2-3 passes with an airbrush and it's back to looking/functioning like new. Even if you might think this was archaic and dumb considering it's an Arsenal, it's still an AK and it works and looks fine now. The bottom line is that I spent all my play money on the gun. It blows up the first time I shot it and have no money to ship it off and possibly inccur parts and labor plus return shipping because of one bad round. Arsenal said it would take at least 3-5 weeks turn around so for the cost of paint and 15 minutes I fixed it. I agree with your statement. Plus, if you come into some money down the line, you can have it repaired professionally. How many times do you think AK's in the field have been fixed much like you described and fired for tens of thousands of rounds? I bet the thing will just be as accurate and reliable. You could have been a whiney little bitch, but you wore the daddy pants and got it done. Good for you, bro. double tap |
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Posted: 3/13/2012 7:49:13 PM EDT
[#46]
WOW! Long interesting thread. I was thinking that's exactly how I'd fix it with a 3 lb hammer! Just goes to show you that it is a survivalist weapon!
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Posted: 3/14/2012 3:45:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
WOW! Long interesting thread. I was thinking that's exactly how I'd fix it with a 3 lb hammer! Just goes to show you that it is a survivalist weapon! Oddly enough I did just about the same thing to a pre-89 under folder that got ran over with a truck back during the ban era. Gun shot fine after I spread the mag well back open with a BFH. 
That experience alone sold me on the AK platform. They are extremely fucking durable guns. P.S. Took all three of my Arsenals to the range last week. I was noticing a lot more recoil, muzzle flash, and blast with Federal .223 compared to Silver Bear, PMC, and M855 which oddly enough seemed mild compared to what the Federal was doing. (indoor range, you could really tell a huge difference between the three types of ammo. Silver bear gave off the weakest report, PMC second weakest, M855 middle of the road, Federal .223 was like shooting a .44 MAG in a small space.) And I noticed after firing Federal out of my only Arsenal without a buffer, that the rear of the receiver was dinged up pretty badly. When I cleaned it last it was still pristine. I fired approx. 20 rounds of Federal in each rifle before I stopped, pulled the remaining rounds out of the magazines, and threw them away. Unfortunately I threw away the box it came in, so no lot number but it was a 100 round red value pack from Walmart. I think 7N6 is on to something, There could be a bad lot of Federal ammo out there.
ETA: Cases looked normal, primer wasn't backed out, shoulder was still there. |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 4:25:06 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm still amazed at the fix and it works. Nice thing about steel, it's malleable. Awesome update OP and glad the rifle works for you. Keep a round count on that one, I would just shoot the hell out of it.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:21:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Taken fro the Rguns website
DEFECTIVE AMMUNITION WARNING It has come to our attention that the Federal/Lake City (LC) XM193 ammunition currently available on the commercial market is displaying severe quality control issues. There have been numerous cases of overpressure and primer issues. The overpressure is severe enough to cause gas ring blow outs and extraction difficulties. Primers have been reported to fall out and jam lower receiver components. also here is the ar15.com link http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/561982_Rguns_Federal_Lake_City__LC__XM193_warning.html |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:08:39 PM EDT
[#50]
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Taken fro the Rguns website DEFECTIVE AMMUNITION WARNING It has come to our attention that the Federal/Lake City (LC) XM193 ammunition currently available on the commercial market is displaying severe quality control issues. There have been numerous cases of overpressure and primer issues. The overpressure is severe enough to cause gas ring blow outs and extraction difficulties. Primers have been reported to fall out and jam lower receiver components. also here is the ar15.com link http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/561982_Rguns_Federal_Lake_City__LC__XM193_warning.html Yeah I'm sticking to PMC from now on. 
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