I'm in the market for another AK. I have a WASR 10/63 that I purchased several years ago for sub $500. I've only shot it a handful of times and it's always a fun gun to blast away with. I've been thinking out getting the WASR a brother and the Yugo M70 looked to fit the bill, specifically the one listed at Atlantic Firearms.  http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/ak47-yugo-zastava-n-pap-fixed-wood-stock-detail.html?Itemid=0

Besides not having a chrome-lined barrel, any other differences between the Yugo M70 and WASR 10/63 to take note of?

It looks like the WASRs are selling for more so I'm assuming that they'd be of higher quality perhaps? Or is that an anomaly? I can't believe that the WASR has jumped up $250-300 in the matter of 4-5 years.

Besides Atlantic, any other AK preferred vendors I should check out?

Any other AK suggestions in the sub-$700 price range?

Thanks!

Well, an M70 that is not. Note the non-bulged trunnion, and lack of a grenade sight gas block. The NPAP is an export model made special for us, same as all the other Yugo "PAP" AKs. Having said that, most any accessory for an M70 will fit the NPAP. Everything else is mostly the same as any other Yugo AK vs an AKM:

*Longer handguards/gas tube
*Dust cover latch in the rear trunnion
*Shiny BCG
*Different rear trunnion that uses a bolt through the buttstock
*Pistol grip "nut" is riveted to receiver as part of trigger guard
*Stupid optics rail placement

The only negative there being the side rail. I can't think of a single reason they would put the rail so low, and far back as they did, and it's the same on my .308 M77. I've heard murmurs that's it's something to do with Yugo specific optics, but other than the M76, I've not seen a Yugo AK designed for optics. If you want something different than the WASR, go for it.

OP, I got mine HERE! It's becoming my favorite AK. Poster above outlined the differences. However, mine doesn't have any goofy accessory rail. This rifle was to my FFL in 5 days.

Damn, that's one vendor that I refuse to order from. I've had packaging issues from them with milsurps I've purchased in the past. They then decided to screw me out of a handgun (Hi-power clone IIRC) that I purchased when their inventory system said they had 5 left. Took several days to tell me and was not even accompanied by a simple apology. They were dicks on the phone when I expressed my displeasure surrounding the transaction. Thank you for the suggestion though.

Now we're talking!. Thanks for the details. It doesn't seem like there are a ton of vendors out there who deal in AKs so I may just pull the trigger on the one from Atlantic.

The rile OP posted was an NPAP, which is a commercial rifle produced by Zastava in Serbia. The rifle you posted is an M70ABM, which is an American-made rifle from Century using demil'd parts kits (either M70AB1 or M70AB2) built on a US milled receiver and barrel. Entirely different guns.

OP, the NPAP is in my opinion a much nicer rifle than the WASR. It's cheaper because WASR imports have dried up due to increased demand from war-torn hell holes. The M70 pattern is different than the AKM pattern the WASR is built to, so there will be differences between the two rifles which affect accessory compatibility, as noted above.

No problem, glad to help. If I were you, I'd grab the NPAP from Atlantic. As much as I would prefer a kit build M70, the NPAP is an actual Zastava built rifle with known good build quality, and from a known good vendor. I would never even glance twice at something Century built with their parts. If you want more info on that, just look up mel64d on youtube and check out his hardness tests. Their metallurgy and heat treating are junk.

tl;dr -- NPAP all day in this case.

Getting ready to pull the trigger on an N-PAP from Atlantic. I have a few more questions of course...

Can this be easily converted to a DF down the road?

How's the quality control from Zastava? I don't want to plunk down $700+ and get a rifle with canted sights, even slightly.

What's a good forearm upgrade so I can attach a Primary Arms red dot sight?

Thanks.

Easily convertible? No, but a competent AK smith can do it, if you really wanted to. Personally I don't see why you would unless it's a purely aesthetic mod. The cheek weld on a DF/UF sucks. Several companies make good sidefolding stocks that don't require cutting and welding on the receiver.

Zastava's QC is solid. My M77 had better fit/finish than a many American made guns I've handled, honestly; they're not Century built abortions. If you somehow got a lemon, Atlantic's customer service seems to be top notch from what I've read.

I have no experience with forearm optics mounts, but by all accounts, people seem to like the Ultimak gas tube. Your other options would be the MI handguard, or I'm sure someone else makes a decent railed AK handguard.

Very good info. I didn't know you would have to cut and weld the receiver to change to the DF. I would go with a side-folder if I were to go that route.

I like the wood furniture, and besides a changing out the handguard and getting a red dot, I highly doubt there's anything else I'd modify. Just want to be aware of my future options down the road if my tastes ever change course. Thanks!

Consider the difference between the rear trunnions:

Underfolder:


Fixed stock:


You have to weld up the old rivet holes which no longer line up, and then cut all those new holes to fit the underfolder trunnion, and clean things up.

No problem! I'm a fan of the wood myself; I grabbed a 3 pack of the Balkan wars handguards when Apex had them and threw a pair on my Yugo.

Edit: I guess it's neutering my pictures because I'm a new member? That's annoying.

That is absolutely disguising behavior from a vendor! I wouldn't order from them either if that was my experience. I've had the same exact experience from Buds in regards to busted ammo boxes, completely wrong ammo, and soaking wet ammo; I hate Buds, will never order from Buds, Go home Buds is how I feel about them. They have sent 1 firearm to my FFL that wasn't even close to the description or picture and that varied so far out of their typical BS semi obscure disclaimer that reads... I'm paraphrasing here... "The item shown and the item that ships to you may not appear to be exactly the same item as in pic"; that my FFL dealer scolded them on the phone for bait and switch shenanigans... Buds still wanted to charge me a restocking fee for the refusal until my FFL told them to go to hell. The second and third items were a Ruger Mark III with a canted under barrel picatinny rail that was so canted the packager/shipper had to be retarded not to notice. Lastly, same order, they sent me a Burris Fast Fire II that just wouldn't turn off. After 4 orders (should have learned my lesson earlier on), I eschew ordering anything from Buds...

However, I've ordered complete firearms and Mega GTR-3 AR15 receivers/upper and lowers, ammo, and accessories from J&GSales with never even as much as a beat up box from them. This Yugo underfolder is the best thing I've ever bought from them though I must admit. I'm thinking about buying a second one...

Gotcha. I'm not entirely new to AK's because I've had a Norinco for 25+ years but this M70ABM type/style I must admit, is new to me. I'm finding there are so many variants I had no idea about. I appreciate the education!

Just get a kit and build your own

I've been toying around with this idea. Only kit I'm interested that i could find was the Polish Underfolder kit from What A Country. Can't find an underfolder receiver though as Atlantic is sold out. I'd go with a fixed stock parts kit but can't find any except some slightly rusted (not a fan of rusted parts) Yugo ones from Apex Gun Parts. Any other suggestions?

I've got a Yugo UF kit to get rid of lol. Childers makes a good receiver or you could go the 80% route as well.

How do you plan on finishing the receiver? If you're going to build a kit, you might as well clean and refinish everything. Then call Nodakspud and backorder a receiver.

On second thought I'm not going to attempt to build one. Not now at least. I thought the difficulty level would be comparable to building an AR but assembling an AK seems much more labor intensive. I'm lacking a bunch of the tools to complete the job and would rather not make further investments on that end considering my confined living quarters. I may pick up a kit, barrel and receiver to sit on it until the time is right though. We shall see. Meanwhile, the N-Pap is calling my name. I'm just hesitant about the total cost in the end as it'll end up running $735 after transfer. I need to keep talking myself into it and it'll happen lol.

Yeah, it's quite a bit more complicated than an AR. I've built a 74 kit the "easy way" with a pre-populated barrel and completed receiver, and that was a challenge, and I still haven't perfected my flat-bending tooling. I just built my first AR for a similar cost, and that was motivated by political climate, if you will. You could get an M70 UF kit for $400 w/ barrel included, another $140 and you'd have a Nodak Spud receiver delivered to your FFL, and then some homebrew tools to complete things, or find an AK builder in your area and borrow/rent tools. I'm not helping, am I?

The DF question has already been answered, so I won't belabor that.

Zastava QC is combloc average. I'm very firmly of the belief that, despite what you read on boards, Zastava, Cugir, Arsenal, FB, Izhmash, etc. are all of equivalent quality with equivalent QC. Molot may be better. And maybe FB should be higher too, but there are so few FB imports that it's hard to say. I will say that Zastava fit and finish is amongst the best; they produce beautiful rifles. With respect to canted sights, I honestly don't hear too many of those complaints from NPAP owners (early M92s seemed notorious for this though). But buying from Atlantic is cheap insurance. Just make sure you inspect the rifle thoroughly, preferably before you accept the transfer, but in any case within a day or two of picking it up.

As for adding a PD RDS, Ultimak, as suggested is a popular option. MI makes front handguards for Yugo rifles, but they're in the middle of revamping their AK line and the improved Yugo models haven't dropped yet, so you may want to hold off on that (unless you like the current model).

I have a few Zastava firearms and I absolutely love them. I think you'll be very pleased with the NPAP.

So I think my interest is switching to getting an Underfolder now. I watched Rob Ski's video for the N-PAP and didn't like how the wood was coming loose after 5k rounds. I already have a WASR 10/63 with wood furniture so that takes care of the desire for a wood stocked AK. The DF is gaining mental traction.

So, I have the option between a N-PAP DF for around $750-760 after transfer, or buying a Polish Underfolder Kit from whatacountry for $390, a CL and CHF Polish barrel from Atlantic for $170, and a receiver from I don't know where for $? (under or around $100 hopefully). After shipping the parts will probably be around $700. So, for an OTD price of probably $850-900 (assuming I can find an AK gunsmith to assemble for $150-175) for the Polish Underfolder, would this be preferred to the N-PAP DF for $100-150 more?

Honestly, a reputable builder is going to charge you more than that to build a kit. I've seen some horror stories related to cheap builders. Good receivers can be had from Nodak Spud, or a few other places. That's gonna be $120-150 though. You can build a kit with a pair of bolt cutters, a bench vise, and a big ass section of gas pipe and a pipe clamp, but you'll need to be prepared to take your time making your tools and be patient, or borrow tools locally. Assuming you have to buy all that, you're out ~$150 and you can "pay" yourself to build it right. I don't mean to scare you away, I just don't want you to think you're after a $800 project that winds up growing far more expensive. Ask me how I know.

The chrome lined barrel would be nice if you were planning on shooting lots of corrosive, but IMO the nitrided barrel you can get with the kit on Whatacountry would suffice just as well, and save you $100+shipping from Atlantic.

The nitride barrel that can be added to the kit looked like a done deal, but there was something that sounded nice about a polish barrel complementing the polish kit. Doesn't really make too big a difference though. I'd be quite content saving the $100 on the barrel and putting that towards a better build by a knowledgeable gunsmith. As far as building my own, I'd really have to research the hell out of the process before making any decision. It would easily be the most labor intensive task that I'd ever have undertaken. I have a thread up in my HTF looking for a local AK gunsmith to get an idea of what it would cost and if anyone is available. If no one steps up, I might have to myself.

One my my friends (FFL I formerly used) was an awesome smith but moved to Indiana. This was a guy that built his own bolt action 50 caliber sniper rifle and also machined his AR lowers from scratch. It might be worthwhile to go for a visit, stay the night, get my gun built, and shoot some NFA goodies in the process. I'm fairly confident he'd give me an awesome price and put together an amazing build. Haven't talked to the guy in years but we're friends on FB so it might be a possibility.

The Yugo underfolder is still an option, but it seems like they're overpriced right now by about $100 (some more), depending on the vendor. I don't like the idea of paying an election premium. Thanks for the input!

Well, looks like the election premium is a non-issue. But on a serious note, I've been remiss in not referring you to pookieweb.net to research the build process. Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down, but it's the best complete resource I know of.

As far as actually building one yourself, on a complete receiver, the skill level required is this: are you comfortable running an angle and/or bench grinder for a few hours to build your tools, and do you have an understanding of hardness/tempering? Can't get things too hot, or you'll weaken them. I snapped a set of bolt cutter jaws after getting too impatient and aggressive; sounded like a 6" tree limb snapping in half when they gave, sure as hell got my attention. There's money to be saved if you have time and knowledge, otherwise you may be better off paying AK-Builder and Toth for tools.

I have both a new WASR10 with no visible quality issues and a Yugo NPAP M70. The quality of the Zastava NPAP is very good! Even though I have a high quality WASR, I'd still rate the NPAP higher. However, I like the fact that my WASR takes all stand AKM accessories. Heck, my WASR has a bayonet lug and non-welded threaded muzzle which is also a plus. While the NPAP does have a threaded muzzle, it lacks the bayonet lug. Not a deal breaker as I'd never probably have a need to attach a bayonet but do like the idea of it being on there as it's something they always try to ban from ownership.

May I suggest the RS Regulate rail for the Yugo? It's a very nice setup with the primary arms RDS. Better yet, the Holosun with the ACSS reticle if you plan to shoot past 50 yards. A standard RDS go shoot beyond that, but I find it easier to be accurate past 50yds with the ACSS reticle.

Also, a nicely converted Saiga is also nice to have:-)

Comfortable with a bench grinder, sure. Understanding of hardness/tempering, not really. I know a milled receiver is more sturdy than a stamped receiver and that's about it lol. With the election going our way, I can hold off until prices come down along with some fantastic sales popping up. Picking a Yugo DF for $600 or less would be ideal. Or perhaps snagging a Polish Underfolder for an excellent price (not sure how much those will drop). It might take some time, but I can wait.

NPAP prices aren't up because of the election (well, at least not at reputable dealers), they're up because just about every AK arsenal is diverting product to military/paramilitary contracts. In other words, limited supply. Supply may come back in time, but prices aren't going to drop as quickly as they would if the issue was the election.

What led me to believe that they were currently overpriced was finding some good deals that had expired awhile back on slickguns I figured if those were the sale prices than the regular price can't be much higher. 22 months ago sales prices were hitting $499 on the N-PAPs. Maybe I'll just keep an eye out around when the sales are popping up...like perhaps Christmastime If I can snag one at $600 or less I'll be a happy camper.

Two years ago the AK market was drastically different. As was said, imports have been minimal lately causing prices to jump. Keep an eye out on armslist for local guys with something they're flipping for bill money, etc.

Yeah, a LOT has happened since those prices were current. In addition to what I described above, we've seen the removal of Saiga from the marketplace, which reduced the pool of rifles on the market, and we saw Century increase the wholesale prices of the weapons they import (like WASRs and NPAPs) to make their homegrown RAS47 and C39v2 more cost competitive. That last one alone added $100 to the price of every rifle.