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Posted: 3/7/2016 5:49:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't see why it's that crazy to expect a gun part to work in overly cold weather. People are out in those conditions with their guns at times. And water is always a factor when that cold, in the woods. Hunting or whatever.
I don't really agree with the premise that all things are going to start breaking at these temps. To put is simply, that's BS. IMHO. Sure 30 below zero is going to be harder on some plastics. But cars use plastics all the time and you don't see crap falling off them every bump they go over. I live in Wisconsin. It gets cold here. Sometimes that cold and colder. Sometimes for days on end. We like to use stuff that works in those temps. It's just that simple. |
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Posted: 3/7/2016 9:16:38 PM EDT
[#2]
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I don't see why it's that crazy to expect a gun part to work in overly cold weather. People are out in those conditions with their guns at times. And water is always a factor when that cold, in the woods. Hunting or whatever. I don't really agree with the premise that all things are going to start breaking at these temps. To put is simply, that's BS. IMHO. Sure 30 below zero is going to be harder on some plastics. But cars use plastics all the time and you don't see crap falling off them every bump they go over. I live in Wisconsin. It gets cold here. Sometimes that cold and colder. Sometimes for days on end. We like to use stuff that works in those temps. It's just that simple. It's not crazy. It's just a poor excuse by some to justify why the stock cracked. It cracked because of the design of the hinge assembly, and the fact the stock is ALL plastic. |
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Posted: 3/8/2016 1:19:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Just installed mine, I trust magpul. It's a $90 stock there's a reason its all polymer. The guys from AK operator abused the shit out of the thing and it didn't break, I think there's more to this story.
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Posted: 3/8/2016 7:51:14 PM EDT
[#4]
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I don't see why it's that crazy to expect a gun part to work in overly cold weather. People are out in those conditions with their guns at times. And water is always a factor when that cold, in the woods. Hunting or whatever. I don't really agree with the premise that all things are going to start breaking at these temps. To put is simply, that's BS. IMHO. Sure 30 below zero is going to be harder on some plastics. But cars use plastics all the time and you don't see crap falling off them every bump they go over. I live in Wisconsin. It gets cold here. Sometimes that cold and colder. Sometimes for days on end. We like to use stuff that works in those temps. It's just that simple. It's not crazy. It's just a poor excuse by some to justify why the stock cracked. It cracked because of the design of the hinge assembly, and the fact the stock is ALL plastic. I will interject here only to clarify, the hinge pin has always been made of steel. |
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Posted: 3/14/2016 12:27:08 PM EDT
[#5]
You'd think in 2016 that the wailed exclamation of "it's made of plastic!!" would be extinct. If glock hasn't killed that yet, you'd think the stealth bomber would have. In any event, of the proper type and properly designed, there's nothing wrong with plastic parts in gun accessories/parts...even folding stock mechanisms. That's not too say that it couldn't be designed better / stronger, or that the test here was faulty or a one in a million kind of thing. All I'm saying is that modern polymers are not really the issue here. IF there is an issue here, it's more likely a design problem beyond material selection.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 5:35:33 AM EDT
[#6]
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Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cold breaks shit, period. Yes it does. Some things break more easily than others, plan accordingly. That little love tap to the ground that Mac gave that stock hardly constitutes torture. Youre right. I forgot Im talking to a bunch of guys that shower with their guns, then run them outside and bury them in the snow in case the SHTF while theyre shoveling their driveway. Thank god MAC recreated that likely scenario. So now you know the Zhukov stock will get you killed because it cant handle being frozen and hit against the ground. Like it even matters if the stock broke since the gun wouldnt fire anyway. Im surprised people arent in here shitting on the AK now. It looked like the AK failed as much as the stock did. Have you read about the Korean War? There is some interesting info concerning firearms in subzero wx and what our fighting men had to do to keep them running. You might be surprised how close the conditions MAC created are to that war. Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... Arctic Wolves! I spent two and a half winters at Fort Wainwright. When we were in the field during cold weather, the standard practice was to stack our weapons outside and post a guard on them. The reason being, as MAC mentioned in the video, is because condensation will form on your weapon when you take it from a very cold environment to a warm one. If you then go back outside into the cold, that condensation will freeze. MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. The test would be just as valid for hunting in cold climates as it is for military operations. After watching the MAC video and the AKOU video, it is clear to me that the hinge is a weak point. The hinge appears to be especially susceptible to rotational forces, particularly when not locked into the unfolded position. It's probably not a problem for most people but clearly it is an issue that can crop up. I think the Zhukov stock is an interesting development and I am glad that Magpul has brought it to market. It would be nice if they chose to improve upon it by making the hinge out of metal or molding metal reinforcements into the polymer at the hinge mechanism. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 6:35:47 AM EDT
[#7]
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MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 6:59:06 AM EDT
[#8]
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Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. You act like he froze the rifles in a block of ice. That's not even close to what happened. He misted the rifles with a spray bottle, simulating a light coat of moisture on the actions that could have just as easily been from condensation or melted snow. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 7:03:00 AM EDT
[#9]
No problems reported with mine... In Florida.
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Posted: 3/22/2016 4:06:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Magpul-
Do you guys have any new data to add to all the conjecture being thrown around? |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#11]
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You act like he froze the rifles in a block of ice. That's not even close to what happened. He misted the rifles with a spray bottle, simulating a light coat of moisture on the actions that could have just as easily been from condensation or melted snow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. You act like he froze the rifles in a block of ice. That's not even close to what happened. He misted the rifles with a spray bottle, simulating a light coat of moisture on the actions that could have just as easily been from condensation or melted snow. The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. Even with a missing stock the rifle should have functioned which makes me wonder if some other issues or damage was preset. Magpul will give you a new stock if it breaks but the rifle failure is not the norm for a well built AK. Both failures are not normal. YMMV. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 8:34:01 PM EDT
[#12]
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The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. Even with a missing stock the rifle should have functioned which makes me wonder if some other issues or damage was preset. Magpul will give you a new stock if it breaks but the rifle failure is not the norm for a well built AK. Both failures are not normal. YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. You act like he froze the rifles in a block of ice. That's not even close to what happened. He misted the rifles with a spray bottle, simulating a light coat of moisture on the actions that could have just as easily been from condensation or melted snow. The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. Even with a missing stock the rifle should have functioned which makes me wonder if some other issues or damage was preset. Magpul will give you a new stock if it breaks but the rifle failure is not the norm for a well built AK. Both failures are not normal. YMMV. Agreed. I was really surprised with the AK's overall performance. I guess all that money for the Krebs goes into making it pretty.
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Posted: 3/22/2016 9:26:24 PM EDT
[#13]
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Agreed. I was really surprised with the AK's overall performance. I guess all that money for the Krebs goes into making it pretty.
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MAC's test in no way constituted torture, abuse, or even hard use. It was a simulation of what can happen under real world conditions. Nah, it's perfectly normal to pour water into something when it's well below freezing and then get surprised it freezes and something breaks. Pour water under concrete and it will break also, go figure. You act like he froze the rifles in a block of ice. That's not even close to what happened. He misted the rifles with a spray bottle, simulating a light coat of moisture on the actions that could have just as easily been from condensation or melted snow. The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. Even with a missing stock the rifle should have functioned which makes me wonder if some other issues or damage was preset. Magpul will give you a new stock if it breaks but the rifle failure is not the norm for a well built AK. Both failures are not normal. YMMV. Agreed. I was really surprised with the AK's overall performance. I guess all that money for the Krebs goes into making it pretty.
Definitely not a good sales video for Krebs, lol. I want to see the follow up / root cause determination for the stock and rifle failure. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no? 
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Posted: 3/24/2016 5:28:31 PM EDT
[#15]
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One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 6:12:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. Uh, the AK's generous clearances also make it highly "porous".....it's a very poorly sealed design. If you get hard crunchy things in it--like gravel or silt or ice-- it is liable to hang up on you, regardless of who made it. There's nothing magical about combloc AKs that make them impervious to debris or mechanical interference. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 6:25:30 PM EDT
[#17]
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Uh, the AK's generous clearances also make it highly "porous".....it's a very poorly sealed design. If you get hard crunchy things in it--like gravel or silt or ice-- it is liable to hang up on you, regardless of who made it. There's nothing magical about combloc AKs that make them impervious to debris or mechanical interference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. Uh, the AK's generous clearances also make it highly "porous".....it's a very poorly sealed design. If you get hard crunchy things in it--like gravel or silt or ice-- it is liable to hang up on you, regardless of who made it. There's nothing magical about combloc AKs that make them impervious to debris or mechanical interference. Except properly hardened metals, proper headspacing, proper riveting. Christ even the wood stocks are falling off the RAS 47's now..... 
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Posted: 3/24/2016 6:45:53 PM EDT
[#18]
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One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
You can't really go wrong with the OEM Russian/Bulgarian stocks both wood and metal. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 11:19:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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Except properly hardened metals, proper headspacing, proper riveting. Christ even the wood stocks are falling off the RAS 47's now..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. Uh, the AK's generous clearances also make it highly "porous".....it's a very poorly sealed design. If you get hard crunchy things in it--like gravel or silt or ice-- it is liable to hang up on you, regardless of who made it. There's nothing magical about combloc AKs that make them impervious to debris or mechanical interference. Except properly hardened metals, proper headspacing, proper riveting. Christ even the wood stocks are falling off the RAS 47's now..... Link? |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 12:42:22 PM EDT
[#20]
I think he is referring to the videos tgat rob put out, specifically the 1500 round count video.
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Posted: 3/25/2016 3:14:26 PM EDT
[#21]
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I think he is referring to the videos tgat rob put out, specifically the 1500 round count video. Yup. He tightened it up at 1000 rounds I think but at 1500 it was cracked. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 4:17:12 PM EDT
[#22]
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Except properly hardened metals, proper headspacing, proper riveting. Christ even the wood stocks are falling off the RAS 47's now..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:The stock failure is less of an issue to me Vs the rifle failure. One reason I run a russian AK. Probably good to go in cold weather, no?
Yes yours is..its not US Manufactured shit!.......The C whatever series is complete garbage, whether touched by Krebs, Fuller..don't matter, the parts are substandard. Uh, the AK's generous clearances also make it highly "porous".....it's a very poorly sealed design. If you get hard crunchy things in it--like gravel or silt or ice-- it is liable to hang up on you, regardless of who made it. There's nothing magical about combloc AKs that make them impervious to debris or mechanical interference. Except properly hardened metals, proper headspacing, proper riveting. Christ even the wood stocks are falling off the RAS 47's now..... Let's see, we've all seen/read about examples of improperly heat treated bolts, but other than Rob's RAS47, where exactly are you seeing all these other RAS47s with the stocks falling off? And which milled-receiver C39v2s, exactly, are improperly riveted? While you're digging those links out, care to link me to this multitude of headspace issues? And you'll have to excuse me, perhaps I'm a little thick, but how did any of these purportedly widespread issues cause Tim's rifle to fail in the cold, or how are combloc rifles superior in removing obstructions inside the receiver? I firmly believe that combloc AKs are still superior to US-produced AKs in terms of materials and production methods, but spouting off unsupported BS undermines your credibility and doesn't help anyone in the community. |
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Posted: 3/26/2016 2:57:33 AM EDT
[#23]
It sucks that the Magpul stock broke so easy. Honestly, the conditions were mild. More of any random winter day. Just from what the video showed, if these stocks were issued on military guns, every single last one of them would be broken, and all under pretty normal circumstances.
That AK fell apart. What mount failed? I think MAC might have been a little disheartened about EVERYTHING with that AK. Also, the reason for the test was more than reasonable. Muzzleloaders have to set their guns up muzzle-down so condensation doesn't run down into the powder or sit pooled in the barrel. People are complaining he didn't hit the ground exactly square. Really shouldn't matter. When slamming one flat surface into another, odds of the entire surface connecting vs the corner first is not going to happen normally. He didn't hit it that hard. As already said, sad performances from AK's all over the place lately. Miserable with dust, mud, and now certain items when it's cold. Also, you'd have to be crazy to think that polymer AK mags are acceptable now just because it's Magpul doing it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2016 11:28:05 AM EDT
[#24]
The zhukov stock is working great for this Montana rancher. It's on my truck/tractor/atv gun so it's not just a range toy or safe queen. I'm not beating down doors with it or anything but it's been fine for what I use it for.
By the way, Montana holds the record for the largest temperature change over a 24-hour period. My ak has never looked as wet as Mac got his after going from outside to a warm tractor or the house. I would make a video for youtube but real life experiences aren't as interesting. |
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Posted: 3/26/2016 7:01:48 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 3/29/2016 8:36:00 AM EDT
[#26]
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I am sure Magpul will modify there stock just like there AK magazines. I prefer a solid steel stock on a AK just seems right. <a href="http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/gforce2018/media/AK%20Folder/IMG_1136%20copy_zpsu2fcc6ac.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a423/gforce2018/AK%20Folder/IMG_1136%20copy_zpsu2fcc6ac.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/gforce2018/media/AK%20Folder/IMG_1141%20copy_zpsq4gstuuq.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a423/gforce2018/AK%20Folder/IMG_1141%20copy_zpsq4gstuuq.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1034.photobucket.com/user/gforce2018/media/AK%20Folder/IMG_1139%20copy_zpsn26yo76z.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a423/gforce2018/AK%20Folder/IMG_1139%20copy_zpsn26yo76z.jpg</a> The stock in those photos is made of aluminum, not steel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2016 10:42:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Thanks, corrected the mistake.
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Posted: 3/30/2016 11:58:25 PM EDT
[#28]
So, Magpul contacted me within a day or so of that video going live. They swore they had never seen such a thing and asked if I would return the stock so they could examine it. They said they would send two more out for me to abuse on camera to prove it was a fluke and report back to me as to what their findings were regarding the failure.
I got (1) replacement stock in the mail and since mailing the defective stock back they've gone completely radio silent. I've heard no reports as to their findings. I will take my one stock and the another one I bought and resume my testing. From what I saw of the failure and looking at the break point, I'm going with the hinge needs a sheet metal reenforcement molded into the hinge, which is what I told Magpul in our phone convo. I suspect that won't happen anytime soon given the tooling costs. They will sell these for a couple of years before they invest in V2. At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. |
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Posted: 3/31/2016 12:19:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, Magpul contacted me within a day or so of that video going live. They swore they had never seen such a thing and asked if I would return the stock so they could examine it. They said they would send two more out for me to abuse on camera to prove it was a fluke and report back to me as to what their findings were regarding the failure. I got (1) replacement stock in the mail and since mailing the defective stock back they've gone completely radio silent. I've heard no reports as to their findings. I will take my one stock and the another one I bought and resume my testing. From what I saw of the failure and looking at the break point, I'm going with the hinge needs a sheet metal reenforcement molded into the hinge, which is what I told Magpul in our phone convo. I suspect that won't happen anytime soon given the tooling costs. They will sell these for a couple of years before they invest in V2. At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. You seemed genuinely disappointed and surprised in that video. Sort of like with your VP9 didn't take well to the puddle of water. I just took my fixed stock off my Saiga to put a Zhukov on it, mainly because I plan on putting a scope on it and I wanted an adjustable stock to help out with eye relief issues. I think you posted your video the day after I order the Zhukov. After thinking about it, I went ahead and did it. For what I'll be using this particular rifle for, it will be just fine. If I was going to need an AK to go to war, I'd stick with the fixed stock. |
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Posted: 3/31/2016 9:13:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seemed genuinely disappointed and surprised in that video. Sort of like with your VP9 didn't take well to the puddle of water. I just took my fixed stock off my Saiga to put a Zhukov on it, mainly because I plan on putting a scope on it and I wanted an adjustable stock to help out with eye relief issues. I think you posted your video the day after I order the Zhukov. After thinking about it, I went ahead and did it. For what I'll be using this particular rifle for, it will be just fine. If I was going to need an AK to go to war, I'd stick with the fixed stock. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So, Magpul contacted me within a day or so of that video going live. They swore they had never seen such a thing and asked if I would return the stock so they could examine it. They said they would send two more out for me to abuse on camera to prove it was a fluke and report back to me as to what their findings were regarding the failure. I got (1) replacement stock in the mail and since mailing the defective stock back they've gone completely radio silent. I've heard no reports as to their findings. I will take my one stock and the another one I bought and resume my testing. From what I saw of the failure and looking at the break point, I'm going with the hinge needs a sheet metal reenforcement molded into the hinge, which is what I told Magpul in our phone convo. I suspect that won't happen anytime soon given the tooling costs. They will sell these for a couple of years before they invest in V2. At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. You seemed genuinely disappointed and surprised in that video. Sort of like with your VP9 didn't take well to the puddle of water. I just took my fixed stock off my Saiga to put a Zhukov on it, mainly because I plan on putting a scope on it and I wanted an adjustable stock to help out with eye relief issues. I think you posted your video the day after I order the Zhukov. After thinking about it, I went ahead and did it. For what I'll be using this particular rifle for, it will be just fine. If I was going to need an AK to go to war, I'd stick with the fixed stock. I really like the ergo's and adjustable LoP on the Zhukov stock. I still have them but until I go a year without breaking one during normal use I don't have much faith in them as a durable option to replace a fixed stock or a proven stock like the triangle or polymer folders of Russian design. Heck, one of the best folders I've found produced in the US are the Bonesteel stocks. I've used them for years without issue. |
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Posted: 3/31/2016 10:15:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Gosh I am in the same boat, I really really like the ergos of this stock it just feels good expecally when running the cheek riser and a scope. I was so excited to run it hard but after looking it over and watching the hinge fail under light use I realize it is a great idea but needs some beefing up to be considered for a weopon of war. I love the magpul guys and really like the products and inivations they are making for us the shooters. But this will be the first magpul product I will be switching out and putting back on my vltor stock mount. But they still got me because the magpul ctr and cheek riser will go back on this gun with there grip so alas.. They make some excellenta other products.... Still waiting for my magpul Aug mags
Hopefully the 2.0 version will come out someday before the Hillary beast hits... 
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Posted: 3/31/2016 5:24:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gosh I am in the same boat, I really really like the ergos of this stock it just feels good expecally when running the cheek riser and a scope. I was so excited to run it hard but after looking it over and watching the hinge fail under light use I realize it is a great idea but needs some beefing up to be considered for a weopon of war. I love the magpul guys and really like the products and inivations they are making for us the shooters. But this will be the first magpul product I will be switching out and putting back on my vltor stock mount. But they still got me because the magpul ctr and cheek riser will go back on this gun with there grip so alas.. They make some excellenta other products.... Still waiting for my magpul Aug mags
Hopefully the 2.0 version will come out someday before the Hillary beast hits... We are just finishing up the report on this particular stock failure and it requires some particularly abnormal circumstances to occur (we will be documenting this shortly). Without getting into details until the full explanation is released, just mortaring the stock straight on and not the tail totally eliminates what occurred on the video even in sub zero temps. Mortaring on the tail itself is not the issue but it does open up some other unique variables that cause issues. As I said more more info as we put it together. |
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Posted: 3/31/2016 7:32:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are just finishing up the report on this particular stock failure and it requires some particularly abnormal circumstances to occur (we will be documenting this shortly). Without getting into details until the full explanation is released, just mortaring the stock straight on and not the tail totally eliminates what occurred on the video even in sub zero temps. Mortaring on the tail itself is not the issue but it does open up some other unique variables that cause issues. As I said more more info as we put it together. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gosh I am in the same boat, I really really like the ergos of this stock it just feels good expecally when running the cheek riser and a scope. I was so excited to run it hard but after looking it over and watching the hinge fail under light use I realize it is a great idea but needs some beefing up to be considered for a weopon of war. I love the magpul guys and really like the products and inivations they are making for us the shooters. But this will be the first magpul product I will be switching out and putting back on my vltor stock mount. But they still got me because the magpul ctr and cheek riser will go back on this gun with there grip so alas.. They make some excellenta other products.... Still waiting for my magpul Aug mags Hopefully the 2.0 version will come out someday before the Hillary beast hits... We are just finishing up the report on this particular stock failure and it requires some particularly abnormal circumstances to occur (we will be documenting this shortly). Without getting into details until the full explanation is released, just mortaring the stock straight on and not the tail totally eliminates what occurred on the video even in sub zero temps. Mortaring on the tail itself is not the issue but it does open up some other unique variables that cause issues. As I said more more info as we put it together. |
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Posted: 4/1/2016 12:34:26 PM EDT
[#34]
insert cricket sound.
 tap, tap, tap, is this thing on? |
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Posted: 4/1/2016 4:40:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: insert cricket sound. tap, tap, tap, is this thing on? Instead of the above, just send them an IM. Remember this is a technical forum. |
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Posted: 4/1/2016 6:41:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. The stock broke but the rifle failed. It should have remained functional minus the stock, broken or not. The majority of the stocks made will not be broken and the ones that might be will be replaced. I am scratching my head more at Krebs for the high dollar rifle that failed over an inexpensive stock with a lifetime warranty. YMMV. A fix could be a material change or adding glass fiber content , increasing diameters , fillets, radi, etc. or a redesign. Time will tell but kudos to Magpul for manufacturing it and it easier to revise a design than coming up with an original one. |
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Posted: 4/1/2016 10:14:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The stock broke but the rifle failed. It should have remained functional minus the stock, broken or not. The majority of the stocks made will not be broken and the ones that might be will be replaced. I am scratching my head more at Krebs for the high dollar rifle that failed over an inexpensive stock with a lifetime warranty. YMMV. A fix could be a material change or adding glass fiber content , increasing diameters , fillets, radi, etc. or a redesign. Time will tell but kudos to Magpul for manufacturing it and it easier to revise a design than coming up with an original one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. The stock broke but the rifle failed. It should have remained functional minus the stock, broken or not. The majority of the stocks made will not be broken and the ones that might be will be replaced. I am scratching my head more at Krebs for the high dollar rifle that failed over an inexpensive stock with a lifetime warranty. YMMV. A fix could be a material change or adding glass fiber content , increasing diameters , fillets, radi, etc. or a redesign. Time will tell but kudos to Magpul for manufacturing it and it easier to revise a design than coming up with an original one. I agree, the Zhukov is a promising design, I loved everything about it until it broke under normal use. I will be doing more tests here soon to see if perhaps it was a fluke or if the rather then polymer material around the hinge is in fact an issue. Only more use and testing will tell. Granted, 90% of the stock owners will fire their rifle maybe 1000 times in their lifetime and probably will never drop it, run and fall on it, or freeze it and mortar it to clear a malfunction. I'm in that 10% that bangs things around. |
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Posted: 4/1/2016 11:56:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Cool I'll be excited to watch your test on YouTube.. I am sure the ice in the hinge had a lot to do with it but that's probably why the Russian and bugy folders are metal at the hinges... I have had mine freeze up on my slr 107 with so much ice I couldn't fold the stock without pressing kicking the button then doing a almost mma knee to the hinge to break it free but it work just fine. My brother inlaws was the same way so this is something that the stock should be ready for if sported on any ak of hard use... Especially In the cold....
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Posted: 4/2/2016 12:40:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm less worried about a water filled and frozen rifle failing to cycle twice then finishing the mag than I am a stock that snapped off with the most minor of bumps. I agree, the Zhukov is a promising design, I loved everything about it until it broke under normal use. I will be doing more tests here soon to see if perhaps it was a fluke or if the rather then polymer material around the hinge is in fact an issue. Only more use and testing will tell. Granted, 90% of the stock owners will fire their rifle maybe 1000 times in their lifetime and probably will never drop it, run and fall on it, or freeze it and mortar it to clear a malfunction. I'm in that 10% that bangs things around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. The stock broke but the rifle failed. It should have remained functional minus the stock, broken or not. The majority of the stocks made will not be broken and the ones that might be will be replaced. I am scratching my head more at Krebs for the high dollar rifle that failed over an inexpensive stock with a lifetime warranty. YMMV. A fix could be a material change or adding glass fiber content , increasing diameters , fillets, radi, etc. or a redesign. Time will tell but kudos to Magpul for manufacturing it and it easier to revise a design than coming up with an original one. I agree, the Zhukov is a promising design, I loved everything about it until it broke under normal use. I will be doing more tests here soon to see if perhaps it was a fluke or if the rather then polymer material around the hinge is in fact an issue. Only more use and testing will tell. Granted, 90% of the stock owners will fire their rifle maybe 1000 times in their lifetime and probably will never drop it, run and fall on it, or freeze it and mortar it to clear a malfunction. I'm in that 10% that bangs things around. You are being generous by saying 1000. |
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Posted: 4/2/2016 2:35:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you keep me updated via email? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gosh I am in the same boat, I really really like the ergos of this stock it just feels good expecally when running the cheek riser and a scope. I was so excited to run it hard but after looking it over and watching the hinge fail under light use I realize it is a great idea but needs some beefing up to be considered for a weopon of war. I love the magpul guys and really like the products and inivations they are making for us the shooters. But this will be the first magpul product I will be switching out and putting back on my vltor stock mount. But they still got me because the magpul ctr and cheek riser will go back on this gun with there grip so alas.. They make some excellenta other products.... Still waiting for my magpul Aug mags
Hopefully the 2.0 version will come out someday before the Hillary beast hits... We are just finishing up the report on this particular stock failure and it requires some particularly abnormal circumstances to occur (we will be documenting this shortly). Without getting into details until the full explanation is released, just mortaring the stock straight on and not the tail totally eliminates what occurred on the video even in sub zero temps. Mortaring on the tail itself is not the issue but it does open up some other unique variables that cause issues. As I said more more info as we put it together. I will make sure someone will be in touch with you prior to any detailed release of the information. |
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Posted: 4/2/2016 11:15:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will make sure someone will be in touch with you prior to any detailed release of the information. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Gosh I am in the same boat, I really really like the ergos of this stock it just feels good expecally when running the cheek riser and a scope. I was so excited to run it hard but after looking it over and watching the hinge fail under light use I realize it is a great idea but needs some beefing up to be considered for a weopon of war. I love the magpul guys and really like the products and inivations they are making for us the shooters. But this will be the first magpul product I will be switching out and putting back on my vltor stock mount. But they still got me because the magpul ctr and cheek riser will go back on this gun with there grip so alas.. They make some excellenta other products.... Still waiting for my magpul Aug mags Hopefully the 2.0 version will come out someday before the Hillary beast hits... We are just finishing up the report on this particular stock failure and it requires some particularly abnormal circumstances to occur (we will be documenting this shortly). Without getting into details until the full explanation is released, just mortaring the stock straight on and not the tail totally eliminates what occurred on the video even in sub zero temps. Mortaring on the tail itself is not the issue but it does open up some other unique variables that cause issues. As I said more more info as we put it together. I will make sure someone will be in touch with you prior to any detailed release of the information. |
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Posted: 4/2/2016 11:17:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are being generous by saying 1000. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At this point I would suggest avoiding the Zhukov folding stock if you plan to put it on a "go to war" rifle. For a range plinker, it's fine. The stock broke but the rifle failed. It should have remained functional minus the stock, broken or not. The majority of the stocks made will not be broken and the ones that might be will be replaced. I am scratching my head more at Krebs for the high dollar rifle that failed over an inexpensive stock with a lifetime warranty. YMMV. A fix could be a material change or adding glass fiber content , increasing diameters , fillets, radi, etc. or a redesign. Time will tell but kudos to Magpul for manufacturing it and it easier to revise a design than coming up with an original one. I agree, the Zhukov is a promising design, I loved everything about it until it broke under normal use. I will be doing more tests here soon to see if perhaps it was a fluke or if the rather then polymer material around the hinge is in fact an issue. Only more use and testing will tell. Granted, 90% of the stock owners will fire their rifle maybe 1000 times in their lifetime and probably will never drop it, run and fall on it, or freeze it and mortar it to clear a malfunction. I'm in that 10% that bangs things around. You are being generous by saying 1000. I just put a Zhukov on another rifle this week. I love the ability to adjust the LoP for optics. No other stock out there offers the same functionality. I really do hope my failure was a fluke. |
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Posted: 4/2/2016 9:52:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Every product failure is near impossible to foresee in every application but good manufacturers take real world issues into consideration and make product revisions to accommodate known issues or failure.
Kudos to Mac and Magpul for demonstrating the problem and looking at the corrective actions if required. I work in automotive for one of the big three. The federal regulation for product design and testing is simply amazing. Even with hundreds of top notch engineers and millions of dollars of R&D problems can still be missed. Some issues are geographically located from environmental conditions. What works fine in Michigan may fail in Arizona due to ambient temperatures. One example is a headlamp that passes photometric, vibration table, oven chamber & water testing only to fail in the field in real use. Turns out a headlamp on high beam ( more wattage / more heat ) would fail after numerous hours of use with a high ambient temperature in Arizona. Since vehicles are sold in every state the lamps needed a revision to address the heat failure due to running on high beam wattage and a high ambient temp. A lighting failure could cause an accident or death so its taken seriously. You never know how a product will hold up until you get hundreds or thousands in the field and real feedback. |
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Posted: 4/3/2016 3:14:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every product failure is near impossible to foresee in every application but good manufacturers take real world issues into consideration and make product revisions to accommodate known issues or failure. Kudos to Mac and Magpul for demonstrating the problem and looking at the corrective actions if required. I work in automotive for one of the big three. The federal regulation for product design and testing is simply amazing. Even with hundreds of top notch engineers and millions of dollars of R&D problems can still be missed. Some issues are geographically located from environmental conditions. What works fine in Michigan may fail in Arizona due to ambient temperatures. One example is a headlamp that passes photometric, vibration table, oven chamber & water testing only to fail in the field in real use. Turns out a headlamp on high beam ( more wattage / more heat ) would fail after numerous hours of use with a high ambient temperature in Arizona. Since vehicles are sold in every state the lamps needed a revision to address the heat failure due to running on high beam wattage and a high ambient temp. A lighting failure could cause an accident or death so its taken seriously. You never know how a product will hold up until you get hundreds or thousands in the field and real feedback. Happens in medicine as well. |
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Posted: 4/7/2016 5:34:39 PM EDT
[#45]
I have one on my 74. i use to have to press down on the button pretty darn hard to get the stock to fold and it locked up real good. Then the rifle fell over while leaning on my wall. When I picked it up I noticed the stock wasn't straight, it was partially folded. I thought no big deal and put it back straight. Well, now the button is a hell of a lot easier to press to get it to fold and I can hit the side of the stock and it'll fold without even using the button. I don't have to hit it very hard either. I looked at it and I don't see any small cracks or anything.
Dunno. I love it and it's not ruined I just thought it would be a tad tougher. Wish they made one that didn't fold. I don't give a shit about the folding option. Just another weak point, obviously. I have the MOE on my 47. It's to short imo when not wearing a plate carrier. |
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Posted: 4/9/2016 2:10:42 AM EDT
[#46]
<removed> this is a Technical Forum, not GD. dryflash3 |
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Posted: 5/3/2016 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Any new news?
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Posted: 6/16/2016 12:53:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Any update on magpuls analysis of this?
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Posted: 6/16/2016 4:18:20 PM EDT
[#49]
It just faded away haha
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Posted: 6/16/2016 5:39:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Best option available for an AKM receiver. Went ahead and got one but if someday they gen2 I'll upgrade then. We got to be serious here, none of us are going to war with it.
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