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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:16:47 AM EDT
[#1]
Newer WASR
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:30:35 AM EDT
[#2]
I always considered Arsenals to be midrange with the customs being high end.
I guess it's relative. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:43:20 AM EDT
[#3]
In my opinion the "mid-range" guns are those on the secondary market that are no longer available NIB but are excellent rifles that command prices lower than a NIB Arsenal. These are genereally AKM pattern stamped guns such as the SAR-1, Mak90, Maadi, etc.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:52:12 AM EDT
[#4]
I just picked up my new WASR10 and it's really really nice, they outdid themselves on these newer ones. Buttstock has no gap at the trunion, sights are perfectly straight, action is smooth, mags fit with little to no wobble (depending on mag). Wood looks terrific. Can't go wrong on a commie built gun with hammer forged chromed barrel like this for the price.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:23:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just picked up my new WASR10 and it's really really nice, they outdid themselves on these newer ones. Buttstock has no gap at the trunion, sights are perfectly straight, action is smooth, mags fit with little to no wobble (depending on mag). Wood looks terrific. Can't go wrong on a commie built gun with hammer forged chromed barrel like this for the price. Didn't know the newer ones were hammer forged. Nice..where did you pick up yours from? |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 12:54:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't know the newer ones were hammer forged. Nice..where did you pick up yours from? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just picked up my new WASR10 and it's really really nice, they outdid themselves on these newer ones. Buttstock has no gap at the trunion, sights are perfectly straight, action is smooth, mags fit with little to no wobble (depending on mag). Wood looks terrific. Can't go wrong on a commie built gun with hammer forged chromed barrel like this for the price. Didn't know the newer ones were hammer forged. Nice..where did you pick up yours from? Thanks guys, I'll look into the WASR and also some of the used models mentions by thecreeper 23, I remember seeing a Maadi for sale locally recently. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 2:44:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Newer WASR's are nice, I don't know that they are any nicer than new Yugos. Both seem solid. The Yugo handguards are longer, which is a super handy feature to me, am converting some of my rifles to that length, I think it looks better too in wood or plastic furniture.
There are some builders out there that are selling nice builds and/or rifles that have some features added already. DDI rifles look good at around 700-800 bucks, CNC warrior does some cool things with M92's and 85's in the 600-700 range. MAK's are out there, saw a guy score one for cheap the other day. ETA: Thinking this may be my next one, but with a fixed stock of some sort if I can get it that way (and dump that horrid stock PG), I think I remember reading that you can get a dedicated optic topcover for that manticore frontend and a PA micro or aimpoint and it will co-witness. Nice turnkey carbine rifle there, those types of M92 conversions usually run in the 700-750 range from CNCW. ETA: 'bout damn time you joined the darkside, get ya off that GMP, stuff is bad for you, just look at Tuna. 
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Posted: 3/27/2015 3:03:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't know the newer ones were hammer forged. Nice..where did you pick up yours from? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just picked up my new WASR10 and it's really really nice, they outdid themselves on these newer ones. Buttstock has no gap at the trunion, sights are perfectly straight, action is smooth, mags fit with little to no wobble (depending on mag). Wood looks terrific. Can't go wrong on a commie built gun with hammer forged chromed barrel like this for the price. Didn't know the newer ones were hammer forged. Nice..where did you pick up yours from? I'm pretty sure WASRs have always been CHF. I got mine from gunbroker.com from a dealer. It was my first gunbroker experience and it went very well. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 3:47:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my opinion the "mid-range" guns are those on the secondary market that are no longer available NIB but are excellent rifles that command prices lower than a NIB Arsenal. These are genereally AKM pattern stamped guns such as the SAR-1, Mak90, Maadi, etc. Generally, this. There are a lot of great rifles no longer made/imported that you can only find on the secondary market. Such is the way of the AK world. Check out the Buyer's Guide in the tacked thread for more info. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 4:11:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Generally, this. There are a lot of great rifles no longer made/imported that you can only find on the secondary market. Such is the way of the AK world. Check out the Buyer's Guide in the tacked thread for more info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In my opinion the "mid-range" guns are those on the secondary market that are no longer available NIB but are excellent rifles that command prices lower than a NIB Arsenal. These are genereally AKM pattern stamped guns such as the SAR-1, Mak90, Maadi, etc. Generally, this. There are a lot of great rifles no longer made/imported that you can only find on the secondary market. Such is the way of the AK world. Check out the Buyer's Guide in the tacked thread for more info. Thanks just checked that out, so many to choose from. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 4:41:09 PM EDT
[#11]
While I have no experience with it, I've heard good things about Atlantic's Polish AKM, the MAK-90's are also very nice.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 6:12:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I've noticed PAPs are at the low end 
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I've noticed PAPs are at the low end
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. They are nice but the only one I've ever handled didn't fit me, the stock was kind of bulged at the top and it was physically impossible for me to line up the sights correctly, instead of chin weld I had temple weld. It was weird. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 6:50:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I've noticed PAPs are at the low end
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. My low end statement was based on price only, I'm not really interested in them because from what I've read changing out part and customizing is harder to do compared to other AKs. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 7:46:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My low end statement was based on price only, I'm not really interested in them because from what I've read changing out part and customizing is harder to do compared to other AKs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I've noticed PAPs are at the low end
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. My low end statement was based on price only, I'm not really interested in them because from what I've read changing out part and customizing is harder to do compared to other AKs. They are low end compared to arsenals, in both price and quality IMO. Still nice guns for the money, but I would say midrange is definitely Arsenal, while RD Krebs and Definitive arms conversions are at the top end. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 8:20:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are nice but the only one I've ever handled didn't fit me, the stock was kind of bulged at the top and it was physically impossible for me to line up the sights correctly, instead of chin weld I had temple weld. It was weird. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I've noticed PAPs are at the low end
"Low end"? Have you handled one? Don't confuse price with quality. They are nice but the only one I've ever handled didn't fit me, the stock was kind of bulged at the top and it was physically impossible for me to line up the sights correctly, instead of chin weld I had temple weld. It was weird. Have to shoulder them like an AR. Nose to charging handle style, you won't get slapped. I shot one the other week. First two shots normal cheek weld, got slapped. Choked up on it a little and dumped the whole mag no issues. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 11:50:29 PM EDT
[#17]
I would have to agree with others, quality-wise the Zastavas are mid-range. They are able to sell them at a low price because Zastava seems to be churning them out 24/7 and putting the other exporters to shame in quantity of product. They saw a hole in Cugir's unreliable delivery to Century with WASRs a couple years back and they've really dug in..
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Posted: 3/28/2015 4:55:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are low end compared to arsenals, in both price and quality IMO. Not enough lower end to justify a $500+ difference in price IMO. Canted sights, crappy paint etc. so they suffer from all the same issues most AK's occasionally do, and I don't mind working on AK's, I love it in fact, but i'd damn sure rather start from the 500 dollar range than upwards of 1000. I still have less money in my rifles than a new Arsenal would cost you, and they are both nicer than the Arsenals i've handled. Only thing I don't like about Yugo's is the lack of a chrome-lined barrel (non-issue for some guys, YMMV), but the furniture is nice, the longer handguards look better and handle better than standard length furniture. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 10:22:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not enough lower end to justify a $500+ difference in price IMO. Canted sights, crappy paint etc. so they suffer from all the same issues most AK's occasionally do, and I don't mind working on AK's, I love it in fact, but i'd damn sure rather start from the 500 dollar range than upwards of 1000. I still have less money in my rifles than a new Arsenal would cost you, and they are both nicer than the Arsenals i've handled. Only thing I don't like about Yugo's is the lack of a chrome-lined barrel (non-issue for some guys, YMMV), but the furniture is nice, the longer handguards look better and handle better than standard length furniture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They are low end compared to arsenals, in both price and quality IMO. Not enough lower end to justify a $500+ difference in price IMO. Canted sights, crappy paint etc. so they suffer from all the same issues most AK's occasionally do, and I don't mind working on AK's, I love it in fact, but i'd damn sure rather start from the 500 dollar range than upwards of 1000. I still have less money in my rifles than a new Arsenal would cost you, and they are both nicer than the Arsenals i've handled. Only thing I don't like about Yugo's is the lack of a chrome-lined barrel (non-issue for some guys, YMMV), but the furniture is nice, the longer handguards look better and handle better than standard length furniture. Well, It depends how you use them. I have fired 10k rounds through one of my arsenal 107Cr's and It keeps on going no issues at all. Took an N-pap to a carbine class, and the damn thing nearly fell apart with around 2k rounds through. Personally my biggest focus in the AK world is barrels however. Every AK I buy, I know expressly that it will never be rebarreled. If it gets shot out, and keyholes regularly, it moves to home defense gun only. For that reason I only buy guns with Mil-spec CL'ing. Arsenal finishes are terrible, though, no denying that. Personally I just prefer the whole buy once cry once attitude. I inspect any gun before I purchase so I make sure the sights and all are on, but to this day over 10 arsenal rifles form stamped to milled, have all been absolutely perfect for me, minus finish of course...But most other AKs I have used have been pretty good to, although my hard use rifles are all arsenal, RD or Krebs. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 3:00:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Took an N-pap to a carbine class, and the damn thing nearly fell apart with around 2k rounds through. Damn that's disappointing to hear, can you elaborate some when you have time? Considering a Yugo myself and need to hear about these kinds of issues. Yeah i'm not really interested in re-barreling an AK either, sucks when you get one that just won't shoot straight. It's awesome when you get that super-nice accurate standout that you occasionally find in AK's, but problem with that is now I don't want to put too many rounds through it, lol, kind of why i'm interested in this thread, i'd like to pick myself up a decent mid-range AK too to be my everyday shooter. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 4:22:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Do you mind elaborating on what fell apart on the N-PAP
FWIW I have a Saiga .223 that has quite a bit of barrel wear over 5k+ rounds. Leade is a bit chewed & frosted, but the rest of the bore is great and it still shoots on par with ARs using iron sights. I am going to pick up a spare barrel from AK-Builder soon even if it just gets stashed away for years until it starts keyholing. Even CHF/CL barrels can get eaten up over time, but everyone;s level of acceptable accuracy is different. Some people could have an AR/AK that others would consider shot out, and still consider it perfectly accurate for their needs & expectations. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:02:30 PM EDT
[#22]
The N-pap had bad heat treat on the carrier and bolt and he riveting was not done well apparently, to the point that after putting about 800 rounds through(in a matter of hours) the receiver was flexing, and coming apart from the trunnions. It was really bad. I have never experienced anything like that with any other AK. The first 1200 or so rounds shot out of it were all done in 300 round range sessions, and I hadn't noticed any issues except some mushrooming on the bolt and peening on the carrier. I put those last 800 rounds through in probably 4 hours and it just couldn't take it. I ended up selling the gun to a buddy who is an AK hobbyist for 300 bucks, and he has since got it back together and it apparently works well, although I know for sure he replace the bolt and carrier and reworked the fabrication.
I have shot tons of rounds through guns I perceived as way shittier than that one, and never saw or have seen anything like it to this day. Either way, I choose to discriminate when buying rifles, as I never like to sell my shit. My go to factory rifles are either Arsenals(bulgy or ruski), Veprs, FEG's or Sar's. Military grade, is best grade when it comes to the AK in my humble opinion. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:17:23 PM EDT
[#23]
So I ended up getting an Arnsenal SAM7SF in a trade today, it should be here Thursday. Not really sure where to start on magazines, I found $10 Romanian mags at CDNN, I know AIM has deals on bakes and 40rd Russian ones.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:44:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I ended up getting an Arnsenal SAM7SF in a trade today, it should be here Thursday. Not really sure where to start on magazines, I found $10 Romanian mags at CDNN, I know AIM has deals on bakes and 40rd Russian ones. Great choice OP! I think its one of the finest AK's ever made. I use either surplus steel or Bulgy circle 10's. The 10's are my favorite, but they are pretty expensive, look around though and you can find good deals from time to time. If you dont mind me asking, what did you trade for it? |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 8:48:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great choice OP! I think its one of the finest AK's ever made. I use either surplus steel or Bulgy circle 10's. The 10's are my favorite, but they are pretty expensive, look around though and you can find good deals from time to time. If you dont mind me asking, what did you trade for it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I ended up getting an Arnsenal SAM7SF in a trade today, it should be here Thursday. Not really sure where to start on magazines, I found $10 Romanian mags at CDNN, I know AIM has deals on bakes and 40rd Russian ones. Great choice OP! I think its one of the finest AK's ever made. I use either surplus steel or Bulgy circle 10's. The 10's are my favorite, but they are pretty expensive, look around though and you can find good deals from time to time. If you dont mind me asking, what did you trade for it? An ACOG. Searching around I found some $10 Croatian bolt hold open mags, may goes with some of those for now. |
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Posted: 3/29/2015 10:43:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Nice...Good trade. You will love the rifle. I have used almost every kind of steel mag in them, and they all work great, you shouldn't have any issues.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 11:06:26 PM EDT
[#27]
You picked a real nice rifle
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Posted: 3/29/2015 11:44:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The N-pap had bad heat treat on the carrier and bolt and he riveting was not done well apparently, to the point that after putting about 800 rounds through(in a matter of hours) the receiver was flexing, and coming apart from the trunnions. It was really bad. I have never experienced anything like that with any other AK. The first 1200 or so rounds shot out of it were all done in 300 round range sessions, and I hadn't noticed any issues except some mushrooming on the bolt and peening on the carrier. I put those last 800 rounds through in probably 4 hours and it just couldn't take it. I ended up selling the gun to a buddy who is an AK hobbyist for 300 bucks, and he has since got it back together and it apparently works well, although I know for sure he replace the bolt and carrier and reworked the fabrication. I have shot tons of rounds through guns I perceived as way shittier than that one, and never saw or have seen anything like it to this day. Either way, I choose to discriminate when buying rifles, as I never like to sell my shit. My go to factory rifles are either Arsenals(bulgy or ruski), Veprs, FEG's or Sar's. Military grade, is best grade when it comes to the AK in my humble opinion. Wild, that sucks. Will be interesting to see how these bad batches of PAPs show themselves over the coming years. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:02:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Yeah, very interesting, since bad heat-treating ,mushroomed bolts , whatever, happens in batches, NEVER just one, it should be interesting to read about the rash of failures w/ the Yugos.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:46:11 AM EDT
[#30]
The 10 pack of Euro mags from SG ammo is great at $8 each. A few Yugo bho mags would be good to add. Reading the different threads on the Croatian mags at akfiles there are some problems with them not fitting well.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:43:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wild, that sucks. Will be interesting to see how these bad batches of PAPs show themselves over the coming years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The N-pap had bad heat treat on the carrier and bolt and he riveting was not done well apparently, to the point that after putting about 800 rounds through(in a matter of hours) the receiver was flexing, and coming apart from the trunnions. It was really bad. I have never experienced anything like that with any other AK. The first 1200 or so rounds shot out of it were all done in 300 round range sessions, and I hadn't noticed any issues except some mushrooming on the bolt and peening on the carrier. I put those last 800 rounds through in probably 4 hours and it just couldn't take it. I ended up selling the gun to a buddy who is an AK hobbyist for 300 bucks, and he has since got it back together and it apparently works well, although I know for sure he replace the bolt and carrier and reworked the fabrication. I have shot tons of rounds through guns I perceived as way shittier than that one, and never saw or have seen anything like it to this day. Either way, I choose to discriminate when buying rifles, as I never like to sell my shit. My go to factory rifles are either Arsenals(bulgy or ruski), Veprs, FEG's or Sar's. Military grade, is best grade when it comes to the AK in my humble opinion. Wild, that sucks. Will be interesting to see how these bad batches of PAPs show themselves over the coming years. Yup. I feel really bad for anyone who got a bad m92 and SBR'd it, as those will take the most abuse. I never add a gun to the keepers pile until I've run it in a class, or gave it a case in a single day. These guns if done right should easily be able to take that abuse. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:49:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 10 pack of Euro mags from SG ammo is great at $8 each. A few Yugo bho mags would be good to add. Reading the different threads on the Croatian mags at akfiles there are some problems with them not fitting well. This is what I got this morning, I've had great experiences with SGAmmo in the past and had no problem spending more money with them. I'll definitely pick up some Golden Tiger from them once its back in stock. |
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