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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:38:05 PM EDT
[#1]
After reading peoples reviews I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:41:00 PM EDT
[#2]
They use the barrel as a bucking bar for the front trunnion rivets. No bueno. Spend the little extra and get a WASR. Hell, you may even be able to find a WASR for that price if you look hard enough.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:46:03 PM EDT
[#3]
I go from WASR to NPAP to Arsenal, back to WASR. Decisions, decisions....
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:52:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Unless you love misery DO NOT go with the Pioneer. The WASR is an excellent lowest cost choice.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:55:51 PM EDT
[#5]
what is the downside of a WASR compared say to an Arsenal? Functionality, fit and finish, etc? Or is it comparing a Corolla to a BMW?
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:10:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what is the downside of a WASR compared say to an Arsenal? Functionality, fit and finish, etc? Or is it comparing a Corolla to a BMW? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:13:06 PM EDT
[#7]
True garbage can AK, buy something better than a pioneer
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Posted: 11/26/2014 2:02:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Same here. I had a Arsenal sgl and sold it and going back to a WASR. I love the WASR. The new ones i guess are pretty nice with a 2014 date stamp.
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:34:11 PM EDT
[#9]
I have one and it is ok after I did some work to it
WASR is also ok, after fixing the cant on the front sight 
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Posted: 11/26/2014 10:44:54 PM EDT
[#10]
they look nice!
Is that a camshaft table? 
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Posted: 11/27/2014 1:44:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they look nice! Is that a camshaft table? IIRC the legs are crankshafts.
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Posted: 11/27/2014 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#12]
The legs are pistons and rods
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Posted: 11/27/2014 12:52:34 PM EDT
[#13]
It's imported by IO. Nothing more to say. GARY
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Posted: 11/27/2014 1:25:39 PM EDT
[#14]
The biggest issue is shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeeuuqe6k94 I bought one anyway after seeing the vid. Just want to see how long this method will hold. Once the rivets fail, it will have to be riveted back in properly. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 3:51:17 PM EDT
[#15]
A buddy of mine bought one. On its first range trip, we couldn't get it zeroed because the front sight post had no tension and would spin freely. On the 17th round or so the hammer pin snapped, caused a slam fire, and left the rifle inoperable. He sent it back to IO, I think it took them about 3-4 weeks to get it back to him. Everything seems fine now???
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Posted: 11/27/2014 5:31:45 PM EDT
[#16]
no go. get a cheap WASR or if you go the cash, definitely the Arsenal...probably the best AK you can get for the price, easy
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Posted: 11/29/2014 5:30:19 PM EDT
[#17]
I love me some AIM surplus, but those Pioneer and now IO rifles are really cramping their style, need to get off that stuff. You're far better off buying the N-pap they have for a few more bucks OP.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 1:46:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love me some AIM surplus, but those Pioneer and now IO rifles are really cramping their style, need to get off that stuff. You're far better off buying the N-pap they have for a few more bucks OP. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 8:26:05 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm thinking about picking up a Polish Pioneer AKM since its based on a Polish receiver and barrel. If, I do, I'll swap out the trigger, hammer, sear and the furniture... As long as the barrel and receiver are not bent or damaged, I can make everything else work with a little work.
My only question about these rifles are if they are truly Polish AKMs, using Polish made parts, minus the US made parts or are they a mixture of Polish and Romanian surplus parts? The reason I'm asking this is that I heard at some of the rearsights on Pioneer made rifles are Romanian and after looking at the Gas Block, it looks Romanian, which is based on the earlier AKM version before being change to the second pattern in the 70s. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 10:55:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm thinking about picking up a Polish Pioneer AKM since its based on a Polish receiver and barrel. If, I do, I'll swap out the trigger, hammer, sear and the furniture... As long as the barrel and receiver are not bent or damaged, I can make everything else work with a little work. My only question about these rifles are if they are truly Polish AKMs, using Polish made parts, minus the US made parts or are they a mixture of Polish and Romanian surplus parts? The reason I'm asking this is that I heard at some of the rearsights on Pioneer made rifles are Romanian and after looking at the Gas Block, it looks Romanian, which is based on the earlier AKM version before being change to the second pattern in the 70s. I'm not sure how you still want one after this thread, but if you're looking to make a "correct" Polish AK using the Pioneer as a base you're going to be severely disappointed. The gun and parts are not built by FB in Radom, and as you've pointed out, they use whatever parts they can get their hands on. They then proceeded to improperly build those parts in rifles. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 4:26:26 PM EDT
[#21]
I don't think Pioneer arms guns are all that bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPXoIEZTTtc |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 5:43:53 PM EDT
[#22]
The current Wasr's are the best quality yet. Go with that. GARY
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Posted: 12/22/2014 6:17:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Glad I saw this, and I'll be looking to another gun. I don't know what a bucking bar is, I'm assuming it's something that braces against the barrel for the rivet to attach to instead of directly on the barrel, which does seem stupid. Dang, I really wanted one over those crappy IO guns. Don't want a npap or opap because they're friggen bricks and don't look right. I just wish WASRs were available again...with foreign barrels.
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:07:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad I saw this, and I'll be looking to another gun. I don't know what a bucking bar is, I'm assuming it's something that braces against the barrel for the rivet to attach to instead of directly on the barrel, which does seem stupid. Dang, I really wanted one over those crappy IO guns. Don't want a npap or opap because they're friggen bricks and don't look right. I just wish WASRs were available again...with foreign barrels. WASRs have always had hammer forged Romy barrels...still do. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 7:10:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad I saw this, and I'll be looking to another gun. I don't know what a bucking bar is, I'm assuming it's something that braces against the barrel for the rivet to attach to instead of directly on the barrel, which does seem stupid. Dang, I really wanted one over those crappy IO guns. Don't want a npap or opap because they're friggen bricks and don't look right. I just wish WASRs were available again...with foreign barrels. Npaps and Opaps do look right, for Yugo rifles. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 8:11:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... I don't know what a bucking bar is, I'm assuming it's something that braces against the barrel for the rivet to attach to instead of directly on the barrel, which does seem stupid... A bucking bar is an object that when the force is applied to it deforms the back side of the rivet. The process is like this: So you have a rivet that comes with a head on one side. Once inserted into the receiver and trunnion holes, in the case of the AKM (or any pieces to be joined on other applications) the portion of the shaft that protrudes is deformed into another "head" clamping the pieces together. In the case of IO, if they use the barrel as the bucking bar, the head side protrudes (cannot be fully inserted). When bucked the shaft is not fully inserted (because the space is occupied by the barrel) and the factory head side is deformed. This may force the rivet metal everywhere there is space but how soon before this improperly bucked rivet fails? Don't trust it. If money is an issue get a WASR. If money & quality are combined issues, get a WASR. If money is no object and quality is the only concern, get an Arsenal. |
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