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rightwing87
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Posted: 12/4/2012 2:25:53 PM
[Last Edit: 12/7/2012 5:24:16 PM by rightwing87]
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/12/03/new-archangel-adjustable-ak-47-stock/



I haven't heard anything good about Promag/Archangel magazines. This buttstock looks interesting though.

Any thoughts?


Edit: Looks like there's some shenanigans going on about this stock. The video was taken down today too.

From the blog comments:
Jim Fuller wrote on December 05th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

Despite the deceptive video above this is not a Rifle Dynamics product, we have never seen one of them, don’t know nothing about them and are not connected with them in any way.

Jim Fuller
Rifle Dynamics


Edit 2
: Mike Ballard (R&D Director at Archangel Manufacturing) has set the record straight on the buttstock and video. See his response below in this thread.

Edit 3: New video showing the stock-set first hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UStXwdnkDBM
Halo05
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Posted: 12/4/2012 8:00:44 PM
If it was a folder, I would absolutely buy it.
505Fire
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Posted: 12/4/2012 8:49:48 PM
I wish they would make an adapter for this to attach to the hinge block for my triangle side folder.
rightwing87
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Posted: 12/4/2012 9:25:34 PM
Originally Posted By Halo05:
If it was a folder, I would absolutely buy it.

I'm kind of glad it's not a folder to be honest. I don't like the looks of most fixed trunnion AK folders.
rightwing87
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Posted: 12/4/2012 9:27:29 PM
Originally Posted By 505Fire:
I wish they would make an adapter for this to attach to the hinge block for my triangle side folder.

Yeah if it attached to a folding trunnion, I think it would look pretty good.
Seawolf504
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Posted: 12/5/2012 7:54:56 AM
reminds me of the SCAR stock. I like it
purevl2
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Posted: 12/5/2012 7:58:33 AM
What pistol grip is on there?
spike6789
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:15:25 AM
[Last Edit: 12/6/2012 7:16:17 AM by spike6789]
My bad.

DIESELSMOKE
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:37:03 AM
Im glad its not a folding stock, I have no use for a folding stock.
kmb147
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:39:33 AM
[Last Edit: 12/5/2012 4:08:53 PM by kmb147]
Originally Posted By spike6789:
This is not an Archangel product and they don't know anything about it from the link provided.



Did you speak to them?
spike6789
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Posted: 12/5/2012 3:07:40 PM
[Last Edit: 12/5/2012 3:15:27 PM by spike6789]
No sir, just going by what Jim Fuller with Rifle Dynamics posted in the link provided. Perhaps I should have said "Curious, in the link provided....". But I have no personal knowledge so I may have spoken too soon. Won't be the first time. My apologies to the OP if I did. I would like to have one, regardless, depending on the price.
HWI
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Posted: 12/5/2012 3:57:55 PM
Promag is shit, so I wouldn't hold out any hope of this product being good.
If I was Jim Fuller I also would want it to be known I wasn't associated with them.
TheMercenary
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Posted: 12/5/2012 6:06:17 PM
Ghey...

I will stick with a WARSAW length K-Var stock with a cleaning kit inside, or better yet a AK100 folder

The instruments of battle are valuable only if one knows how to use them
Knowledge is power, ignorance is a liberal... Fuck Obama
castanagajt
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Posted: 12/5/2012 7:07:51 PM
[Last Edit: 12/5/2012 7:22:08 PM by castanagajt]
As mentioned before from Jim Fuller of Rifle Dynamics; Pro Mag or Archangel Manufacturing in general nor is the stock or the pistol grip, and any kind of Pro Mag magazine has not been endorsed or even tried in the shop. Those items has not been in the shop or even mentioned in the shop for testing of any kind.
eodinert
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Posted: 12/5/2012 8:50:31 PM
[Last Edit: 12/5/2012 8:51:32 PM by eodinert]
I've used Archangel vertical grips and rail covers. I like them because they work well, and don't look stupid. Vert grips and rail covers are some of the most overpriced parts out there.

Here is an Archangel product from midway that has the same stock on it; the stock is Archangel. The stock above has got a notch cut on the right side of the cheek rest... I wonder if they are planning some additional functionality, or a different model as well?

clange
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:36:24 PM
What did the video claim, that RD endorsed or tested the part?
rightwing87
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Posted: 12/5/2012 11:23:38 PM
Originally Posted By clange:
What did the video claim, that RD endorsed or tested the part?

It showed a guy claiming to be affiliated with RD shooting a rifle with the stock on it.

Apparently the guy was an imposter.
backwoodsdrifter
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:13:10 AM
I will buy one for my wasr
maxxmojo
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:39:03 AM
Originally Posted By rightwing87:
Originally Posted By clange:
What did the video claim, that RD endorsed or tested the part?

It showed a guy claiming to be affiliated with RD shooting a rifle with the stock on it.

Apparently the guy was an imposter.



Jim Fuller posted this on glocktalk yesterday:


To set the record strait, there were no Rifle Dynamics people attending this shoot, Rifle Dynamics has nothing to do with this product, we have never seen it or heard of it until a former employee allowed someone to install this product on his personally owned gun for that shoot.
Jim Fuller
Owner Rifle Dynamics


I'm guessing the former employee was just trying to drop the RD name and it went downhill from there. That being said, the grip looks interesting however the stock doesn't really do anything for me.
Howie_Phelterbush
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Posted: 12/6/2012 1:26:22 AM
i like that stock.
"7.62x39 just pounds shit harder. And sometimes, that is all that matters in life"
"Its all a bunch of bullshit.Every bit of it." - Holloway
"stop tarding up an awesome thread"-tacticalmolonlabe
ArchangelDevelopment
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Posted: 12/7/2012 11:44:53 AM
First and introduction:

Hello! I’m Mike from Archangel Manufacturing. I have a long history of creating products in the firearms industry. I’ve worked extensively for Hogue, Knoxx Industries, and many other firearms related companies over the last 20 years. I’ve been blessed to fall into the area of Research & Development. Every day I get to do what I love. I’ve created many successful products, and I believe I will create quite a few more… God willing. I’m married and have 4 wonderful children. I was Chairman of ICORE for four years, and just love firearms, shooting, and the shooting sports. In fact, my whole family does. I’ve raised my kids as shooters and conservative Americans.

I was offered a job at Blackhawk, but I turned it down due to a much better offer from ProMag. I started work for ProMag Industries about 5 years ago. I was given the oportunity to create new products without any control but my own. Literally a clean slate of paper for everything. So Archangel was created and a new division was born. I started making products that I would want for myself.. My personal philosophy is there should not be one Archangel product that goes out the door that I wouldn’t install on my own weapon, for my own use. Ultimately, I want to make a difference for people of all walks… Soldiers, law enforcement, or civilians alike. The only criteria, is it has to perform 100%, look good, and feel good doing it. While building the entity and identity of Archangel, I’ve had the chance to influence ProMag by introducing new materials, processes, quality control methods, laser marking identification, and new testing/evaluation processes. For people that have a negative image of ProMag, I kindly ask that you try a new product from them when you get a chance. ProMag is a totally different company than the one that I came into 5 years ago. As a firearms accessory manufacturer, ProMag takes their work seriously and strive for excellence every day. Together, we are determined to make the very finest products available today.

Now. To set the record straight from our side of the story.
When this video was shot, we (Archangel/ProMag) were out shooting some video for our new booth (#14810) at the 2013 SHOT Show. As a courtesy to firearms manufacturers and weapons builders, we generally state the weapon type and manufacturer of it when we are showing off our new products. We do stringent testing when creating any new product, and this video was the fruits of our labor. We knew we had a winning product. Is’s made of high quality materials, and definitely improves the ergonomics of the weapon in several ways. It’s also made in USA. Everyone who tested the combination had nothing but praise in regards to the fit, ergonomics, and high quality feel. I hope you will have a chance to try the new stock set soon. I’m confident you will love it as much as I do.

An independent video blogger (Mixflip) came out to shoot some non-biased video review of his own while we were shooting our promotional video. I knew he lived in Las Vegas, and thought he would have a good time at the range with us, and that his viewers would probably get a kick out of the festivities. We, as a company have not published ANY of our promotional footage at all at this time. The only video posted anywhere was from the independant video blogger. As a free American and an independent media type, you would think he could post whatever he wanted… He was not trying to “deceptively” do anything. He was simply posting video of the combination of parts being fired that day for the enjoyment of the shooting community. The only reason we were using the rifle from the company in question was because it was offered for our use by the owner of the weapon. Until this ordeal, we were very fond of their build quality, reliability and finish. We will not be promoting this manufacturer of AK weapons in any way by this AK manufacturing company owners request. We usually state the hardware we are using with the idea that promoting other American companies is a good thing. In this case, we will be using different companies when we are performing testing and evaluation in the future. The new Archangel buttstock, forend, and grip can be put onto virtually any AKM rifle. (with the exception of some variants with longer hand guards such as the Yugos) While it’s designed to be a drop in fit, some fitting may be required as tollerances are known to be sloppy sometimes dependant on the particular rifle you’re working with. While the new videos currently being produced are intended for The SHOT Show, we will be posting the videos to YouTube for the enjoyment of the shooting community as they become available. We will be featuring the new stock on many exotic weapons including a nice full auto, and a very nice short barreled Saiga-12.

This product is literally brand new, so I definitely appreciate the support, AND the criticism. After all, I want to benefit the end users most of all. From the comments I have seen on the web, most view the new furniture favorably. Some have mentioned they would like it better as a folder. I’m not a fan of folders, but I do appreciate their merits. I just prefer a solid stock for a more solid feel. Maybe I’ll do another folder someday, but for now, this is what I got. And for the comments that there was a jam in the previously posted and removed video, I tell you honestly that it was indeed a misfire and not caused by the ProMag magazine. We collected a number of un-fired rounds with dented primers that day. Once we switched back to Russian ammo, that problem went away.

Best Regards,

Mike Ballard
Director of Research & Development
Archangel Manufacturing
OlSarge2K
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Posted: 12/7/2012 1:12:42 PM
Hi Mike,

Welcome aboard. That new stock looks really well thought out and offers some real advantages. Really like the adjustable height.

This whole "deceptive video" thing is WAY blown out of proportion. It's an Archangel stock installed on a Rifle Dynamics rifle. On any other day it could have been your stock installed on an Arsenal, or home built or POHF rifle. Coolio. Let's move on.

Question - Does this stock have any capability to take QD swivels?

Looking forward to future Archangel innovations.


ThRob
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Posted: 12/7/2012 2:01:15 PM
[Last Edit: 12/7/2012 2:04:42 PM by ThRob]
I want to know more about this stock, it seems to be what I've been waiting for! WAY TO BEAT MAGPUL TO THE PUNCH!

Oh and BTW, I have one of your Marauder stocks for my 10//22, and I've been more then happy with it. Great job guys!
Armoryman1
Alpha Mike Foxtrot
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Posted: 12/7/2012 2:35:37 PM
I would dig a folder! But I likete cheek riser alot.

ArchangelDevelopment
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Posted: 12/7/2012 2:51:20 PM
OlSarge2K,

Yes, the buttstock actually has four different QD hardpoints on the buttstock. Two on the adjustible stock and two on the receiver extension.
rkobalt
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:26:19 PM
(This is based on the new uploaded video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UStXwdnkDBM)

I have my reservations about the quality of these products due to affiliations with ProMag, but skipping that for now:

The biggest problem with this furniture is that there's too much going on with the style. The stock doesn't look like it belongs - the shapes and lines are going all over the place while the AK receiver does not have anything like that. It's obvious that it was designed for something else (the Mini 14/30 stocks). The concept is good, but the style is wrong. Many people complain about AR buffer tube adapters looking out of place, but this product doesn't solve that one bit. If the 'shapes' were redesigned to look more like it belonged with the receiver, it could be a winner. But right now it just looks like an airsoft copy of the ACR stock bolted on to a gun where it doesn't belong.

The shape of the pistol grip is very decent, but again, all the little lines and shapes make it look like the grip from a toy gun. Being smooth like a Molot grip or with minor stippling/gripping would be a much better visual look (like MFT's AK grip). I also prefer pistol grips that have a slightly more pronounced 'curve' at the top (like this), otherwise it shoves the top of your hand into the receiver and for some like me it makes it painful to hold the rifle even with gloves, but maybe I'm an outlier.

The handguards have weird grooves all over the place that look like they were put there to 'look cool', primarily the upper handguard, which serve no purpose and detract from the look.. Otherwise the design here is good.
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