Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AK-47 » Maintenance & Cleaning
AK Sponsor: palmetto
Site Notices
Posted: 5/15/2014 1:20:08 AM EDT
I know i know there are countless threads about AK stock refinishing but this one is a tad different. I was planning to do a semi gloss varnish mix with acetone and ritdye but i've heard they switched their recipe so it turns blue when mixed with acetone. I am planning on getting an Ironwoods design stock set for my saiga rifle on order. Does anyone have a new recipe? Thanks alot. i would like it to look like this.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124554861@N04/14186247861/
Link Posted: 5/15/2014 3:23:54 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm not sure what process you want to use.
Do you intend to mix a varnish and stain with Acetone and apply that to the stock?
If so, there are stains or dyes that can be used.  You just have to experiment to find a stain that will mix with a varnish finish.  Water based stains may not mix.

Possibly a better way to get true colors with no mistakes is to stain the wood first, then apply polyurethane thinned with Acetone, or thin it with the recommended paint thinner.
This way you get true colors.
If you stain first and let it dry, then apply well-thinned poly you get good penetration into the wood without any bad reaction with the stain.

I finished my Ironwood stock and original Bulgarian hand guards with Tandy Water based leather dye, followed with coats of thinned semi-gloss poly.
With leather dyes you can thin them to prevent staining too dark, too fast.  If the wood isn't dark enough, let dry and apply another coat, or apply another coat with less thinning.

I found an excellent test material to check color is to get a 5 gallon paint stir stick at a paint store.
The 5 gallon stir sticks are a white wood like the stocks, and are much longer and thicker then gallon stir sticks.

For my stock I fooled around with mixing Red and Yellow leather stains only to figure out that Cordovan dye is perfect for AK colors.  Cordovan is a Red-Brown color that gives the Orange color of real Russian Red wood.
If you use water based you can use it full strength.  If you use Fiebing's solvent-based leather dye, thin it with the special thinner to prevent getting it too dark.
Test your mix on the paint stir stick and let dry to see the true color.

After staining, thin your first coat of poly with paint thinner.  A wood working friend sometimes thins it almost 50-50 for the first coat to get penetration, then reduces the following coats about 3% to 5% to improve brushing.
On most Ironwood 3 coats will usually give you a good AK look.  If you want a more commercial looking finish apply more coats with light sanding between coats, and if possible, spray the final coat with an airbrush.

Here's my Ironwood stock done in the later dark Russian Red:



As an aid to colors of real Russian "Red" wood, here's a picture showing the range of colors on real Russian wood.
Note the color is really Orange, not Red and ranges from light Orange to the darker "Rootbeer" of the later wood:


Link Posted: 5/15/2014 8:07:09 PM EDT
[#2]
You convinced me to use some of that cordovan dye but i have a couple of questions.
1.) Can you get a stain of orangish through red only using that dye?
2.) Is that the only dye i would need to do this?
3.) would you recommend a semi gloss with a high gloss final coat or all semi gloss or even satin?

Thanks so much for your info!
Link Posted: 5/16/2014 4:31:13 PM EDT
[#3]
You may want to read this.......

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_93/66927_Red_Stain_Formulas.html

Remember, photos look MUCH redder then they really are.

I tried the RIT and had very poor results.  I found it was a LOT less effort to use the leather dyes.

Cordovan is a Red-Brown color.  Depending on how you thin it and how many coats you apply, the color will range from a light orange to a Red-Brown "Rootbeer" color.
Since the Soviet "Red" is not red, you won't get Red colors.
Look at the posted picture of the real Soviet stocks for the colors you get with Cordovan.

Other options are to use other colors of dyes and experiment. You may have the best results by mixing Yellow and Red to get the exact color you want.
Just remember, pictures look redder then they really are, and pictures taken in sunlight or under strong lights will look redder.
Soviet wood is not fire engine red, and it doesn't look Red, it's Orange of different shades.

Again, experiment.  The 5 gallon paint stir sticks are more like gun stock wood and give truer colors than the thin, flimsy 1 gallon stir sticks.

If you buy Tandy water based leather dye, make sure you DON'T buy the "Cova" dyes.  These are actually a leather paint.  You want the "Eco-Flo" type.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/leather-dye/2600-11.aspx

Note that Tandy no longer carries a "Cordovan" dye so you may need to mix your own using Red, Yellow, and something like "Timber Brown".
Fiebing's is a far stronger solvent based dye that will dye very dark too fast unless you thin it with the special thinner/reducer.
They too no longer sell Cordovan, but they do sell Oxblood which may be even better since it's more Red then Cordovan.
I'd experiment with thinning it to get the right darkness.
I personally haven't used the Fiebing's solvent dyes, but they may be even better then the water based dyes.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/leather-dye/2100-19.aspx

The advantage of leather dyes is it soaks into the wood instantly and deeper than any standard wood stain.
Standard wood stains tend to lay on the surface and only color the grain.
The colors you get with leather dyes are true and don't change after a finish is applied.
It can be thinned and mixed as you desire.

As for the poly finish, I used semi-gloss.  This seems to be closer to the look of Russian wood finishes, which is Garnet shellac.
I found the satin too flat, and the gloss way too shiny.  If you use gloss, you can use 0000 steel wool or synthetic polishing pads to reduce the shine to suit you.

I recommend thinning the first coat with paint thinner (read the can for the correct thinner, it's usually paint thinner, not lacquer thinner).  I thinned my first coat with about 25% to 45%.  This soaks in instantly.  In areas that it does soak in instantly, apply more to keep the area wet for a few minutes.
I let dry BONE DRY, then brushed on 2 more coats thinned just enough to make brushing easier and not leave brush marks.
I used thinned finish in an air brush to apply the final top coat for smoothness.  I lightly sanded the last brushed on coat before spraying.

If you want a commercial fine finish, lightly sand after every coat, and you may need to apply 4 brushed coats to insure the wood grain is full.  The spray the top coat.
Link Posted: 5/17/2014 1:31:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/17/2014 7:13:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Aha, seems Tandy no longer carries all the Feibing's colors.

The Fiebing's is a solvent based dye.  You'll need to thin it with the special reducer/thinner or you'll get WAY to dark colors.
The up side is, it will soak into even a really nasty, oily stock instantly.

I'd recommend shopping at some other leather supply houses for dyes.  I'm sure some still carry all the Fiebing's colors.
Link Posted: 5/17/2014 10:39:38 PM EDT
[#6]
3 coats pine tar (cut w/ mineral spirits so it thins out and seeps in)
Followed by
3 coats of amber shellac (I just used the common hardware store pre-mixed canned amber shellack)
Page AK-47 » Maintenance & Cleaning
AK Sponsor: palmetto
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top