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iNuhBaDNayburhood
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Posted: 11/17/2008 9:59:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 10:15:43 AM EST by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
I'd really like to apologize to the other builders here who took an interest into my build thread for the MG-47ES.

The thread was deleted at my own request. Apparently you builders were not the only people taking an interest in this particular homebuilt gun thread.

I have finished selling off all of the parts, raw materials, and even some of the tools I used to start my MG-47ES gun build project - they will likely be shipped out later today. Yes, that's right, the MG-3 top cover & feed tray, the 1/8" steel, the bulk packs of 10-32 screws went too! I will soon be rid of my PPSh-43 parts kit and various related parts & mags as well.

I'm done. I'm getting out of gun building & kit building. I'll keep the AK's and AR's I've built and that will be all.

The only think I kept were the shelving tracks that were going to be used for bolt-carrier rails! They will soon be bolted to my wall, and used for... a SHELVING UNIT.

Apparently some F.ederal AG.ent has taken an 'interest' in my MG-47ES build! I've received a couple phone calls from a US Marshall inquiring about my MG-47ES build.

This is a bit disconcerting to me since my cell phone is unlisted, and the calls show up as restricted! The first call didn't even show up on my PHONE BILL last month. [>:/]

Not sure WHY, but I presume that since the Actual PLANS on how they are built are not offered freely on the web (and I understand why - I think as intellectual property Sharps has a right to sell it or keep it private - that's not what this is about), some .Fed AGents might not have a copy of the plans themselves!!!

I presume this because this particular person kept asking me questions about the gun... Is it a Machinegun? How does this part work? How does that part work? How do you modify THIS, how is THIS modified!?!?!? He was asking about parts I've not even purchased yet let alone MODIFIED or Fabricated!!! I can't even begin to start the FCG Tray and Gripstick portion if I don't even have the darn bolt carrier rails installed yet!

*SIGH* IF this is what I fear it is - the beginning of a Witch-Hunt where .Gov is gearing up to demonize and/or prosecute homebuilders - I truly fear for this great nation during the next four years!

I don't need a .Gov nose up my arse - sniffing around for any reason to put me behind bars! I've only built a few kit-built guns, and 100% of my gun builds have been 100% in compliance with ALL ATF and 922R Importation laws. I have many friends in Law Enforcement fields, and some of them have actually FIRED some of my kit-built guns!!!

So why the witch-hunt!?!? Why the 'Presumed Guilty until Proven Innocent' approach to questioning me about a gun build!?!?!?

This is VERY Big-Brother-ish in my opinion, and as a direct result, I will no longer be doing any gun building projects... It's just not worth the risk anymore.

If this is any indication of what the next four years will be like, I'm truly and honestly afraid for the future of America.

So please accept my apology for requesting the deletion of the MG-47ES thread. I wish you all only the best of luck in your future gun build projects!

Sincerely sorry,

iNuhBaDNayburhoodTerrifiedOfTheNextFourYearsOf.GovPowermongering

PS. Beware of what pics or threads you post online.
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dalesimpson
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Posted: 11/17/2008 2:40:44 PM EST
It is a damned shame that your thread had to go, but I do understand your reasoning.

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. Voltaire
It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee
Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid.
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drcwv78
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Posted: 11/18/2008 3:54:58 AM EST
well now i dont feel so bad about giving up on my build it just turned into too much of a headache
kncook
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Posted: 11/18/2008 5:35:27 AM EST
Tell them they can come get it....
Jumbopanda
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Posted: 11/18/2008 3:05:34 PM EST
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.
dalesimpson
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Posted: 11/18/2008 3:20:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


I think that the OPs decision to not fight this un-winnable battle is apt.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. Voltaire
It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee
Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid.
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mcnielsen
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Posted: 11/18/2008 4:28:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


It was the right thing to do. Since you have mentioned it, how are your AK builds going in Sunny California?
"If you want to pray, pray before the fight, or pray after the fight. But when you are in the fight, you fight."
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Posted: 11/18/2008 5:27:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


I think that the OPs decision to not fight this un-winnable battle is apt.


Your opinion of what is "un-winnable" is just plain scary.

Them"We have some questions about your guns."
You "Here, take them. I don't want them anyway."

I agree it would be unsettling to get a call like that, but it's not an un-winnable battle. It is a lost battle because of the immediate surrender.

I hope there are more people willing to stand up for their rights than people who won't even bother to see if it becomes a fight.

To the OP, did they leave any contact info? If so, could you IM it to me please?
mykrowyre
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Posted: 11/18/2008 6:03:42 PM EST
Well, this is not really a surprise. it looks like a machine gun, and they have no way of knowing whether or not it has been modified or customized in a way in which it could be *easily* or accidentally made full auto. I think you did the right thing, because there is always a chance ... a CHANCE ... you would have made a small mistake somewhere in an early prototype which THEY had caught but you didn't.... and BAM 10 years.

It's not worth it. Home builds on parts kits with well known receiver designs are one thing, but building from scratch is best done working with the batf instead of on your own. Send them the designs first and get the ok before you start building.

This would have happened today, yesterday, or 10 years ago. No need to blame Obama for this one. But I agree, the next 4 years is going to be scary.

Jumbopanda
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Posted: 11/18/2008 6:19:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 6:23:52 PM EST by Jumbopanda]
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


It was the right thing to do. Since you have mentioned it, how are your AK builds going in Sunny California?


Just fine actually. I and many other Californian gun owners like myself refuse to be intimidated by the CA DOJ's bullshit. Knowing the laws and knowing your damn rights is crucial to being a gun-owner, sad to say. It is unfortunate that sometimes the innocent do get screwed pretty hard by overzealous law enforcement, but if you let that sort of thing scare you, then you're letting the anti-gun people win.


Although I will concede that the Feds and the thugs at the ATF are much scarier than the klutzes at the CA DOJ.
uscombatdiver
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Posted: 11/18/2008 6:20:07 PM EST
I have enjoyed your comments and excitement about building, it's too bad that some are emboldened in their thinking that law abiding citizens who engage in this kind of hobby are some how deserving of this kind of treatment but it is the price we all pay for democracy. Your decision is best and your frustration is understandable. I will miss your enthusiasm to keep experimenting with new things. It is a dying thing to be original in this country. Good luck in whatever else you pursue, I'm sure you will do well.
wrenchmonkey
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Posted: 11/18/2008 7:10:14 PM EST
Democracy? Hardly. Oligarchy, at best.
Jumbopanda
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Posted: 11/18/2008 9:02:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2008 9:03:07 PM EST by Jumbopanda]
Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


It was the right thing to do. Since you have mentioned it, how are your AK builds going in Sunny California?


Btw, this is 100% CA legal if you know how to go about it.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8396/img0574mq3.jpg

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if we as gun owners allow ourselves to be pushed around and bullied into not even wanting to own guns that are currently LEGAL, what chance do we have of preventing future gun control or even pushing back some existing laws?

Sorry for the thread jack, but it's somewhat related.
mcnielsen
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Posted: 11/19/2008 6:09:33 AM EST
Jumbopanda, Thanks for your comments. My intent was not to flame you but to show that there are stupid gun laws and irregular enforcement everywhere. Has a CA 10-round mag limit stopped LA gang shootings? Clearly not. In any case, thank you for opening my eyes to the goings-on in your neck of the woods.

With regard to the OP, I don't think anyone can blame him as being part of the problem. It is a lot easier to fight the Feds and politicians when you are not behind bars. We are not the criminals, here. It would be much better for all concerned if the Feds would focus on REAL criminals committing gun crimes. Preaching to the choir, i know.
"If you want to pray, pray before the fight, or pray after the fight. But when you are in the fight, you fight."
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iNuhBaDNayburhood
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Posted: 11/19/2008 7:16:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 7:39:05 AM EST by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Thanks for the understanding, McN, Dalesimpson, and others...

I'm sorry I gave up on this project, but it's not exactly like all the other projects out there.

Everybody and their brother's monkey is making AK's, AR's, AK pistols, and AR pistols.

Law Enforcement have known and watched this for quite some time now... They know many are using FFL Transferred receivers, US parts, and a few are using homebuilt bent flats. It's nothing new, and bending a flat isn't quite so darn intensive as completely fabricating a belt-fed receiver, rails, modifying so many MG parts, a feed tray, a belt-feed mechanism & feed pawls... Fabricating a custom gas tube, gas piston, and recoil assemblies. Putting together a modified pistol grip and modified fire control group...

There's a LOT of 'unknowns' in this kind of build, and I'm sure the ATF can simply point out an easy way to make this kind of gun fully-automatic. Regardless of the fact that I never INTENDED to build anything illegal, it doesn't take much more than an over-zealous Federal LEO on a mission, a simple 'Ruling' from the ATF that it's too easily 'converted'... And BAM you've got 10 years in prison!

Considering HOW MUCH of this homebuild project is fabricated from scratch it wouldn't be difficult for the ATF to point out the fact that ANYBODY capable of completing such an incredibly complex build could EASILY fabricate any parts needed to make the gun fully automatic! If the ATF rules that your gun is too 'easily convertible to fire automatically' they're going to call it a MACHINEGUN, and you're in violation of NFA laws.

I'm a young guy in my 20's, I'm recently married, and I'm a pretty new Home-Owner as well! My wife and I are trying for our first baby, and I promised my wife that I wouldn't do anything STUPID or QUESTIONABLE with my gun-hobby (be it BUILDING or SHOOTING them)! That's something I promised her, and I will NOT make a liar out of myself and potentially jeopardize me freedom (being RIGHT, while being in JAIL isn't what I'd call being FREE), and I won't jeopardize my marriage or my ability to support my wife or my future children.

I JUST WILL NOT DO IT. It doesn't matter to me that I'm RIGHT, that I'm LEGALLY exercising my right to build my own guns, when I'm stuck in jail throughout a drawn-out process of PROVING MY INNOCENCE IN COURT!

The way these two phone calls were going, you can bet your arse that the questioning was VERY MUCH 'Presumed GUILTY until Proven innocent!' –– Why!?!? Because that's sadly the way our overbearing judicial system is being operated these days!!!

It's sad but true! All you need is an ignorant, anti-gun jury, an ATF Firearms Technology Branch 'Expert' waving pictures of an M-60 in front of the jury saying 'Machiengun', and then holding them side-by-side next to the MG-47 I was building, saying 'Machinegun' - we made it fire automatically with nothing more than a plastic wire zip-tie! And you can bet your @SS and your $40,000 in lawyer fees and paid 'experts' to PROVE your innocence that the IGNORANT JURY will find you guilty!

Gladys says, 'Well, I don't know about YOU, Doris, but it sure does look like a Machinegun to me, and the ATF writes the laws - they probably know more about the laws than this other hired 'expert'... I think he's guilty!

The next thing I know I'm curled up playing 'Little Spoon' to Hector's 'Big Spoon' in federal prison.

NO. I'm not taking that chance!

You guys can call me 'CHICKEN' or 'CHEESE EATING SURRENDER MONKEY' and throw up French flags all you want...

I have the maturity and humility to see potential for this becoming a fight - and making every effort to AVOID IT! It's better than Brizz's suggestion that I 'stand up' to see if it becomes a fight! If I were to even HINT at taking a confrontational approach to those two conversations with this US Marshall, you can bet your @SS it would've become a fight!

A fight I'm not ready for, a fight I cannot afford, a fight I promised my WIFE that I would avoid at all costs!!!

I've built AK's, and AR's. It's not like I don't still have freedoms! I can still build guns if I want to, but at the present time, I need to save up my $$$ for AMMO, repairing/maintaining my new-to-me house, and providing for a future baby! My wife could be pregnant right now, and we just don't know yet. Am I going to do something STUPID to jeopardize my ability to provide for her and a child???

Kind of tough to do that on a Prisoner's daily wages. Sorry.

A lot of Americans just don't see HOW QUICKLY their lives could be flushed down the toilet at any given moment of their lives...

I'm sure that guy having one last drink before last call and getting in his car isn't thinking about the 17 year old girl he's going to T-Bone in a wreck at 65 MPH on his way home - he's thinking about how he's pissed at his co-worker for being lazy, or how his wife isn't putting out, and he wants that last drink before he has to go home & deal with a crabby wife and the other poor decisions he's made in life!

I'm a firm believer that EVERYTHING you do in your life has a DIRECT or INDIRECT effect on what happens to you in life! As such I live my life responsibly, and I base all my decisions upon the Morals, Integrity, and Common Sense that I was raised with by my two good parents, God bless them.

Again, I'm sorry I abandoned this project and got it out of my house - I'm sorry as I know many of you (as well as myself ) were looking forward to finishing this project and passing on any knowledge I'd attained.

It's just that I will not jeopardize my position in life when I've gone to such great lengths the past decade to turn my life around for the better!!!

I love my life just the way it is right now –– It's almost PERFECT!

Why would I HOPE for this great life to CHANGE the way it's going???

And though this isn't directly related to Osbama, I still fear for the next four years!

Is this a good time to have children??? Is there ever such a thing???

I don't know, but I have to continue living my life to the best of my ability, and making decisions the best way I know how... In reverence for God, and using sound judgement, guided by morals, integrity, and common sense. Lame, Unpassionate, and Boring to many of you, I know... I'm sorry. That's just the direction I decided to take here. Sorry.
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dalesimpson
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Posted: 11/19/2008 12:42:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Brizz:
Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Originally Posted By Jumbopanda:
Well then, judging by your reaction, they've won.


I think that the OPs decision to not fight this un-winnable battle is apt.


Your opinion of what is "un-winnable" is just plain scary.

Them"We have some questions about your guns."
You "Here, take them. I don't want them anyway."

I agree it would be unsettling to get a call like that, but it's not an un-winnable battle. It is a lost battle because of the immediate surrender.

I hope there are more people willing to stand up for their rights than people who won't even bother to see if it becomes a fight.

To the OP, did they leave any contact info? If so, could you IM it to me please?


Why does my opinion of unwinnable scare you? Is it worth the hassle to you to keep something like this in the public eye and possibly have federal agents paying you a visit? Or would it be much more prudent to withdraw the public access to this project and complete it in peace?
Please do not insinuate that I am willing to give up my Second Amendment rights. You have never been more wrong in your life.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. Voltaire
It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee
Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid.
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bouncer55
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Posted: 11/19/2008 4:32:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 4:36:01 PM EST by bouncer55]
once you are on the "LIST" weather you take off your post or not it does not matter.our enemmies do not fear firearms,they fear men who think free.a firearm is just a tool,without a will to use it it is useless.those who give up liberty for security will get and deserve neither.

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope that it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen, if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve.

This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty towards the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation?

For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth –– to know the worst and to provide for it. I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House?

Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation –– the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motives for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies?

No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer on the subject? Nothing.

We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves longer.

Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament.

Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope.

If we wish to be free –– if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending –– if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak –– unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of the means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us.

The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable –– and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, "Peace! Peace!" –– but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775

POLYTHENEPAM
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Posted: 11/20/2008 3:30:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Brizz:


I hope there are more people willing to stand up for their rights than people who won't even bother to see if it becomes a fight.


I presume you have pics of the belt fed semiauto you started right after your post.

Let's see them.

cntrailrider
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Posted: 11/20/2008 8:07:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 8:11:28 AM EST by cntrailrider]

dpmmn
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Posted: 11/21/2008 6:43:46 PM EST
I'm really curious to how they found out your contact information [>:/]
IYAOYAS
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Posted: 11/24/2008 7:44:04 AM EST
For gosh sakes guys, the internet isn't anonymous. Your e-mail address and computer all leave trails to you. I was impressed how quickly they tracked down some loser on another board after he ripped off some members there.
When you post pics, the URLs can lead right back to you too. Hell, my own pics have my initials and last names as part of the URLs. A six year old could track me down!

This is why you should be completely above board and legal in how you go about your home building.

This is a public forum. You'd have to be really ignorant to think that hiding behind a screen name gives you true anonymity.
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Posted: 11/24/2008 8:26:01 AM EST
Well...SInce the hardware is gone.
Why don't you sell the plans....

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