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Posted: 10/9/2015 9:15:55 PM EDT
[#1]
It's more over concern that you're going to flex or drag the (old timey) steel rod and scuff the crown or the throat.
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Posted: 10/9/2015 9:22:19 PM EDT
[#2]
It's not the patch that damages the crown its the rod and or patch holder contacting the crisp corners of the the rifling at that point. Over time the corners will get worn down degrading accuracy.
The crown is critical to good accuracy since it is the last contact the barrel has with the bullet. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 10:29:07 PM EDT
[#3]
I never would have thought of a cotton patch being able to wear down a steel crown. All my life I have known the "rule", but just started thinking about it while cleaning a barrel today. Guess, I am still learning, not too old yet?
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Posted: 10/10/2015 12:02:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never would have thought of a cotton patch being able to wear down a steel crown. All my life I have known the "rule", but just started thinking about it while cleaning a barrel today. Guess, I am still learning, not too old yet? It's not the cotton patch, it's the metal rod and/or patch holder and it's not so much wear as damage (nicks, etc.). |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 12:04:38 AM EDT
[#5]
I have a hard time believing that a cleaning rod can appreciably alter a barrel crown or throat, when the barrel is designed to pass a copper clad lead projectile through it at 10's of thousands of PSI.
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Posted: 10/10/2015 12:47:44 AM EDT
[#6]
It's more the junction between metal collapsible cleaning rods that could nick a muzzle.
I use a one piece rod, and as far as dragging the patch through to the breach, it won't harm anything, but I use jags so it doesn't happen. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 1:39:39 AM EDT
[#7]
I have a carbon fiber rod with brass fittings I doubt that this type of rod would damage the crown but like everything is life companies must cater to the lowest common denominator....those of you who are that denominator know who you are......maybe
More weapons are damaged during cleaning than at anyother time during their lives. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 1:54:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a carbon fiber rod with brass fittings I doubt that this type of rod would damage the crown but like everything is life companies must cater to the lowest common denominator....those of you who are that denominator know who you are......maybe
More weapons are damaged during cleaning than at anyother time during their lives. Which makes me cringe every time I'm issued a new weapon...one can only imagine what they've been through. As long as they shoot straight, I guess they're OK. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 6:08:01 PM EDT
[#9]
It's very doubtful you'd break your gun by cleaning it. You'd break your gun by NOT cleaning it.
With that said, it's also very doubtful you'd ruin your gun when you run a rod through it. Best case is you can get a guide if you're worried. I recall an experiment, which I can't pull up at the moment, when they purposely ran a metal cleaning rod through the barrel to break it. I mean they were pretending they were cleaning pipes and they were angry about it. They found it did absolutely nothing and this is a all day, multi day exercise where they kept cleaning it over and over and over and over again. The conclusion is unless you're into super accuracy long distance shooting, you probably won't notice any difference. Even if you went absolutely banana gorilla ape shits cleaning your gun like you were some angry gorilla about that got slapped in the face and your banana was taken away, it's very doubtful your gun would get damaged if you're cleaning it. If guns were that sensitive to a clean rod breaking it then it would not manage to survive a 35k PSI bullet going through it. |
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Posted: 10/12/2015 2:08:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I was always told some of the particles caught in the patch were abrasive.
Of course that would make bore snakes really bad. It also stands to reason that peening the muzzle even slightly would be bad. Some rules simply outlive the knowledge of what their cause was. |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 7:31:24 AM EDT
[#11]
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was always told some of the particles caught in the patch were abrasive... I read that argument all the time. All of those particles came from inside your barrel. Every shot (after the first) pushes those particles down the barrel at supersonic speed and are compressed against the barrel by a bullet that is oversized and getting swaged into the diameter of the barrel. Strangely, I actually know I guy who shoot his guns TWICE, sometimes more in one range outing!!! He rarely replaces his barrels, so I don't know how he gets away with it. If you worry about abrasive/dirt on your patch you should never fire your gun twice. Since we know that cleaning does more damage than shooting, just replace your barrel with every shot. |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 12:51:55 PM EDT
[#12]
For 98% of us as long as we are not churning butter it does not matter.
I would swag that a bullet causes uniform wear while a patch will not. Now unless your a high master CMP shooter type does it really matter? |
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Posted: 10/16/2015 4:49:11 PM EDT
[#13]
With many barrels being melonited/nitride/QPQ....you would really have to work at it to even slightly scratch or nick the surfaces.
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Posted: 10/16/2015 5:24:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's very doubtful you'd break your gun by cleaning it. You'd break your gun by NOT cleaning it.. Seen plenty of M16's damaged by "cleaning it". Have not seen any damaged by being too dirty. 
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Posted: 10/16/2015 5:55:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Steel rod from the muzzle, especially a rough segmented one, done thousands of times, like a military rifle cleaned endlessly by recruits, yeah, it'll add up.
Normal guy being careful, with a plastic coated, brass, or aluminum rod, like was said above, you'd have to be a super anal benchrest shooter for it to make a difference and even then it would take a few times for it to show up. |
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Posted: 10/19/2015 9:16:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's more over concern that you're going to flex or drag the (old timey) steel rod and scuff the crown or the throat. This I'm no expert by any means but I think the whole thing is blown way out there. I see no difference pulling or pushing a patch from either side in any firearm I own. However I tend to use bore snakes these days. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 1:34:04 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/21/2015 2:37:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Rifle steel used to be much softer as well.
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Posted: 10/21/2015 4:09:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryI've read that before but I prefer to use a carbon fire rod on my expensive barrels...it helps me sleep better at night knowing I'm not fucking up an expensive barrel if someone else bought my barrels for me I wouldn't care. The older rods were made of steel so the could scratch the inside of the barrel...I've seen some guys go at a barrel with a steel rod like they were fisting a filipino hooker when I was in the military. 
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Posted: 10/21/2015 4:58:36 AM EDT
[#20]
I've always cleaned mine by pulling the patches through from the chamber end to the muzzle end. I pull slow, I try to keep the rod centered in the muzzle and that removes the crud from the rifle/barrel rather than pushing it from the barrel into the chamber/receiver.
I don't clean the chamber, except with those same patches and I've not had "dirty chamber issues". Not with the M1A, AR15's, M1 Garand's or any hunting rifles. Pushing a rod causes it to bend and rub the lands of the barrel. Pulling the rod will keep it much straighter and if you're careful, if won't make much, if any, contact with the lands. Of course, using a jag means you have to push the jag/patch through the barrel, so you're going to get more rod to land contact. I never use jags, just the patch tip with patches/solvent or a brush, occasionally. If I shoot it, I clean it, that night, or the next morning, so my rifles/handguns have had a lot of rods/patches/brushes pulled through the barrels. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 6:59:42 AM EDT
[#21]
The issue with crown damage is that highly pressurized gas can escape asymmetrically from the muzzle as the bullet exits the barrel, causing force to be diffentially applied to one side of the projectile, further causing it's trajectory to be altered in an unpredictable way.
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Posted: 10/21/2015 8:00:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue with crown damage is that highly pressurized gas can escape asymmetrically from the muzzle as the bullet exits the barrel, causing force to be diffentially applied to one side of the projectile, further causing it's trajectory to be altered in an unpredictable way. What he said. ^^^ I've used all manner of cleaning tools....rods of various types and bore snakes. At this point, I see little reason to use anything but a bore snake except for rather rare detailed cleaning. A bore snake isn't going to harm squat. |
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Posted: 10/21/2015 10:42:06 AM EDT
[#23]
I never thought of it so much as damage but general wear and tear on the crown and to prevent dragging crud back into the chamber
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Posted: 10/21/2015 2:17:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read that before but I prefer to use a carbon fire rod on my expensive barrels...it helps me sleep better at night knowing I'm not fucking up an expensive barrel if someone else bought my barrels for me I wouldn't care. The older rods were made of steel so the could scratch the inside of the barrel...I've seen some guys go at a barrel with a steel rod like they were fisting a filipino hooker when I was in the military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read that before but I prefer to use a carbon fire rod on my expensive barrels...it helps me sleep better at night knowing I'm not fucking up an expensive barrel if someone else bought my barrels for me I wouldn't care. The older rods were made of steel so the could scratch the inside of the barrel...I've seen some guys go at a barrel with a steel rod like they were fisting a filipino hooker when I was in the military. ...and it still doesn't cause any issues. I have an article on that, too. 10,000 plunges with a segmented steel rod. No issues. Anyway, I just use a bore snake. Few passes. Barrels shoot 1-2 MOA for thousands and thousands of rounds with duty type ammo. Now, a benchrest rig...follow whatever the barrelmaker says. |
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Posted: 11/4/2015 3:30:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a hard time believing that a cleaning rod can appreciably alter a barrel crown or throat, when the barrel is designed to pass a copper clad lead projectile through it at 10's of thousands of PSI. It happens.... 
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Posted: 11/4/2015 3:47:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have a hard time believing that a cleaning rod can appreciably alter a barrel crown or throat, when the barrel is designed to pass a copper clad lead projectile through it at 10's of thousands of PSI. It happens.... http://www.bearblain.com/images/Bullet%20Test.png Do you have proof that the above picture is the result of said cleaning techniques or are you just posting an image that fits your argument? |
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Posted: 11/4/2015 10:06:46 PM EDT
[#27]
I like your procedure on pulling the patch, instead of pushing. Gonna do it that way.
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Posted: 11/5/2015 9:50:04 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have proof that the above picture is the result of said cleaning techniques or are you just posting an image that fits your argument? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a hard time believing that a cleaning rod can appreciably alter a barrel crown or throat, when the barrel is designed to pass a copper clad lead projectile through it at 10's of thousands of PSI. It happens.... http://www.bearblain.com/images/Bullet%20Test.png Do you have proof that the above picture is the result of said cleaning techniques or are you just posting an image that fits your argument? Well, the Army though it was a big enough problem on the M1 Garands that they started issuing bore guides. And, if you can explain how barrels, usually M1s that were issued to reserve or NG units, so they got cleaned a whole lot more than they got shot, can have completely destroyed crowns and no matching wear at the throat, I will gladly revise my opinion. 
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Posted: 11/6/2015 8:36:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Double post
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