Seems to me that there is a simple test to prove the argument either way. If Fireclean is in fact Crisco pure canola oil then it should perform exactly like Fireclean in a head to head test.

Take two similar AR15's. Lube one with FIreclean and the other with Crisco. Shoot them under the same conditions, using the same type of ammo and magazines until failure or for a known number of rounds and then see how well each one looks and cleans up.

If Fireclean is re-branded Crisco you should get the same results from both rifles in both performance and clean up.

What is your margin of error, and what is your control?

 

Not necessarily. There is a subset of lubrication products rated & labeled with food contact ratings which are NOT plant based at all. Generally they are relatively inert synthetic formulations. I have mentioned Synco SuperLube many times in the past, it is such a product.

There are some synthetic oils that are considered non-toxic and food safe.

I should have used "and" rather than "or" to infer a more direct relationship.

As it stood, it was more of a bluster statement due to frustration with the other poster.

I am not sure what fireclean is. I can tell you though that I've used frog lube and rand, and both became very gummy in a couple of months. Fireclean has been fine in storage for almost two years on my father's ar. So, whatever fireclean is, it is indeed different from other bio based lubes I have tried in significant real world ways.

Granted, it's been about 8 years since I had organic chem and actually had to do analyses of this sort, but you do realize that the location of the molecules in their respective chains = functional groups, which is exactly what it detects.

Also how do you know how they refine it and how the testing would not show that?

I guess I just don't understand why you're so entrenched in this argument, when it's clear that Fireclean is almost certainly just a blend of cheap vegetable oil sold for an outrageous price.

I am suggesting a head to head competition not suggesting a high school science experiment.

Because to me, that is not clear. Its a baseless allegation. Can you support it? Please do so. I'd love to save money just like everyone else if you can.

It is kind of the upper bound on expensive lubricants.  There are some other approaches that are also pricey but they are even more specialized.  (graphite cages for bearings for instance)  The fact that they are charging the the same order of magnitude for vegetable oil is ridiculous.

Actually, if you read the analysis that the professor did or if you knew how to read and FTIR graph, you would come to the opposite conclusion.  

Cool, then read a chemistry book.

 

After reading this thread through, I guess I'll try out some canola as a carbon cleaner.  As a lube...meh.  Maybe for giggles, but some of my guns are safe queens, so probably not - it will probably just get gummy.  

After reading so many of these cleaner/lube/protection debates it just seems like a lot of fuss over something pretty simple.  Do I have a product that cleans reasonably well?  Do I have a lube that stays put and doesn't migrate or burn off too much, and helps the firearm operate smoothly? When I put the firearm away, do I have a product that provides reasonable protection?

To each his own, but I use stuff I already have on hand, vs. dedicated "Firearm" lubes and cleaners - less clutter on my bench.  

Just my $.02.....

Who cares?

if it works and you are willing to pay for it then go for it.

I have been using my method of cleaning and lubing for years. My father and Grandfather did the same thing. I have some of my grandfather's guns and they are still in excellent condition. So I do not plan to or want to change products or methods.

I am amazed at all the arguing in here over lubricant. If it is biodegradable than you be bet it is most likely plant based instead of petroleum based. Just because the cleaner and/or lube is biodegradable does not mean it is safe after use. The cleaner and lube is contaminated with the carbon, lead and powder residue.

The price is what keeps me from trying it. Imagine if you bought a pint or quart of Fireclean?

 

I propose the opposite test


we cook donuts in fireclean and taste test them

if I had some I would run it through the GC machine. that would tell us

Several people on TOS have now concluded their head-to-head tests of Crisco on an M4. The crisco performed...rather poorly, lol! I think some of them are still scrubbing...

In actual real-world use, I have found their claims regarding how the "treated" metal reacts with fouling to be accurate. Especially in my suppressed .22 pistol. Slide continues to rack smoothly hundreds of rounds after other CLP's I have tried make it feel like there is sand in the action.

Why not?

 








 

I use mobil 1 on my guns. If someone tells me its just rebranded motor oil I am going to be pissed.

No worries, Mobil1 is made from the slipperiest substance on earth...... The promises of politician's

Cast Iron pan seasoning is a coating of polymerized vegetable oil, but it doesn't change the metal itself.  Polymerization is caused by time and the right high temperature - Google "seasoning a cast iron pan"

It's possible that Fireclean "seasons" the hot parts of the weapon during use.  Who knows...

Fun with numbers:  
- 35 lb box of Oil at a Food Service Supply house = $18.95 + tax, say $20 total.
- One box of oil = 560 oz. = 280 - 2 oz. servings of "Lube".  
- Cost per serving = $20 / 280 = $0.0714.

So 7 cents of product per 2 0z. bottle.  A different brand was about $40 for a 35 lb box, so that would double the cost to $0.14 per bottle.

Add in the cost of the bottle and cap (about $0.75 est) and Label ($0.50 est), and you've got a bottle of lube that cost about $1.39 in materials to produce, with the packaging being most of the expense.  Double everything, and its still under $3 to produce.

Of course this doesn't account for start up and other costs - filling equipment, additional packaging, marketing, distribution, labor, sales staff, etc., etc.,...  Still though, a pretty good business plan if you can get the right buzz going.  

This could apply to any of the lubes that are out there, not just vegetable oil.  A 55-gal drum of Mobil One is $1761 on Amazon, shipped, or about $0.25 per fluid ounce.  

I priced out 55 gallon drums of specially treated soybean oil for my real job not to long ago, and they were about $1000 each, or $0.14 per fluid ounce. For those who are curious, its used as a biodegradable insulator in some high voltage transformers.

What was the oleic acid content percentage of the barrel of oil you priced at $1k?

I haven't seen fireclean up here yet. I have access to a GC machine, I use it everyday so if I find some I will do a comparative GC

As I mentioned above it was soybean oil - feel free to Google...

LOL so when I was offshore diving, we had this dumbass kid yard open a valve I told him NOT to touch draining a dive bells battery compartment.  Veg oil was used to keep water out, keep it from shorting, and keep it from crushing at depth.

 


So, not shit, there's NO replacement oil either specific for the compartment, or fresh oil from the galley.



We ended up straining and using the freaking oil out of the deep fryers.

Who cares what it is made of as long as it works??  People have been raving about it for while and have had good results with it.  Don't use it if you don't want to.  Too much brain power has been wasted by armchair commandos on this pissing match already.

I don't think it's that, as much as people feeling ripped off due to the price markup. After all, they're selling vegetable oil at nearly the same price as Krytox.

And/or that people could use an improvised variation at a vastly lower cost.

I care.

 

I use Fireclean and am watching this with some interest because I, too, am concerned about long term gumming.



My dad was a research scientist and used photospectrometers all day long, with a little bit of mass spectroscopy. ALL those things do is tell you the elemental components of a compound. In the case of the photospectrometers, you dissolved the samples in acid, injected them into a plasma "flame" (about 8000 degrees) bounced the light off a diffraction grating and measured the wavelengths. Each element has a particular signature and the resulting analysis shows you the elemental composition of the compound. This much hydrogen, this much lead, this much arsenic, this much aluminum. Only elements.



They don't do SHIT for distinguishing the molecular arrangements in organic compounds. They can't. If two compounds are made up of carbon and hydrogen they will show up pretty similar. Unless you can determine molecular weight, just knowing that you've got carbon and hydrogen isn't going to tell you the chain length or saturation or any chemical properties.



Let's look at the one obvious difference between Fireclean and Crisco-- Crisco is a hydrogenated fat and solid at room temperature. Fireclean is not.



We don't have to make any statement beyond that to know that Fireclean is not Crisco.



That said, maybe it is just a highly refined, highly purified vegetable oil. Frankly I am very curious myself. I am well aware of how vegetable oils gum in a high heat setting, I see it all the time with cast iron skillets, saute pans and my French cooktop (which is seasoned with heated peanut oil). I don't heat my BCG to 500 degrees, but high temps are certainly present in the chamber, barrel, etc.



The BIG QUESTION is simply this: has Fireclean somehow found a way to prevent gumming and oxidation? Their patent actually seems to claim that this gumming is part of the carbon protection. Yikes....



I'll say this: so far so good. Been using it for about 3 months now and parts do clean up pretty easily and BCGs seem to stay pretty wet through a range session. Jury is still way, way out, though. Time and experience should tell. If I see any sign of gumming I will stop using it. The only way to get the gum of is to use acid and I ain't taking Bar Keeper's Friend to my gun parts.



-Stooxie

I shoot suppressed a lot and it makes it easier to clean.
If someone were to come up with a diy recipe that performs just as good I'd make the switch.

I suspect that if you strip the metal parts of all oils like FireClean instructs and used Canola oil in the same manner you'd have similar results. Probably almost any oil for that matter.  
I've used FireClean and Slip 2000 with great results.  My only concern as previously stated is FireClean makes no claims to protect against corrosion and the rancid odor from the old bottle I have makes me concerned it will gum up long term.  

Also, as a consumer it does make me feel rather stupid to pay so much for repackaged Veg oil.  

Oh no.  Did you fall victim to advertising and outrageous claims?? Remember.....Caveat Emptor!!  They discovered a use for it and made millions off of all the gullible consumers looking for the next miracle product.  That is called "Capitalism".   Jealous much??

Also remember...it is your money and YOU decide how to spend it.  Nobody forced these people to buy it.

Oh no.  Did you fall victim to advertising and outrageous claims?? Remember.....Caveat Emptor!!  They discovered a use for it and made millions off of all the gullible consumers looking for the next miracle product.  That is called "Capitalism".   Jealous much??

Also remember...it is your money and YOU decide how to spend it.  Nobody forced these people to buy it.

I love it whenever I read somebody attack what the "scientific test" says when it isn't a scientific test at all. It is a chart from some textbook with "Canola Oil" and "FireClean" typed onto it in photoshop. There is no author, no lab, no source data at all. If I can put a completely unsubstantiated document on the internet and have it declared "scientific fact" I will become owner of a Ferrari factory and hold a dozen or so new World Records.  There is nothing, utterly nothing, that even suggests the document flaoting around the web is real. This is not just a lie, it is a cheap lie and I am amazed at how many people have bought into it.

xxx

I don't see why not. I haven't had my pistol can very long though.
I put a light coating on the baffles and it pretty much wipes away.
Next round I'll try EWL and see if it works the same.

I think the test is legit. It showed massive differences between soy, rapeseed, and FIREClean oils, just as one would expect.

I'm conducting some (admittedly not all that scientific) tests.  Hopefully I'll have some "gumming" results in a month or so.  Thread here.

I like using the "latest and greatest" stuff and used froglube first and now I am using Fireclean. I have been happy with the Fireclean thus far.

I was just laughing with my brother over the weekend about how wrapped up we get in terms of oils and lubes and reflected on what my dad used to lubricate his Browning pistol 30-40 years ago...dad used sewing machine oil and guess what? The gun functioned fine :)