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Posted: 9/6/2015 1:05:21 AM EDT
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature.
I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU 
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Posted: 9/6/2015 4:36:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test.
Do you think he is lying? |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 4:47:05 PM EDT
[#2]
interesting findings.
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Posted: 9/6/2015 4:57:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Maybe, he is trying to sell you something. Let's see the results of this analysis. I couldn't find the patent # or application for Fireclean, anyone? |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 5:19:22 PM EDT
[#4]
But, Ballistol is just mineral oil
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Posted: 9/6/2015 5:23:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 6:16:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, he is trying to sell you something. Let's see the results of this analysis. I couldn't find the patent # or application for Fireclean, anyone? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Maybe, he is trying to sell you something. Let's see the results of this analysis. I couldn't find the patent # or application for Fireclean, anyone? Ha, he did a whole pint of weapon shield and a tub of its grease several years ago, I have to say it is an excellent product as was his FP-10 I used for 20 years. He is not a snake oil salesman so at this point I have no reason to doubt him until we get more info. |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 6:34:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 6:47:05 PM EDT
[#8]
George Fennel knows his stuff. I have used Weapon Shield with confidence since its debut.
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Posted: 9/6/2015 6:51:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Salesman with tricks, no different than any other salesman.
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Posted: 9/6/2015 7:05:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Funny. When I pour vegetable oil into more vegetable oil. It mixes. Same for fireclean. So why when I mix them...do they not mix? Could it be...that they are different? |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 8:02:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Funny. When I pour vegetable oil into more vegetable oil. It mixes. Same for fireclean. So why when I mix them...do they not mix? Could it be...that they are different? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Funny. When I pour vegetable oil into more vegetable oil. It mixes. Same for fireclean. So why when I mix them...do they not mix? Could it be...that they are different? Not sure what you are getting at. Alcohol and water mix, rum and coke mix, chemical composition/molecular bonding have as much or more to due with two liquids mixing than specific gravity.http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/liquids/faq/miscible-immiscible.shtml |
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Posted: 9/6/2015 9:10:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure what you are getting at. Alcohol and water mix, rum and coke mix, chemical composition/molecular bonding have as much or more to due with two liquids mixing than specific gravity.http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/liquids/faq/miscible-immiscible.shtml Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Funny. When I pour vegetable oil into more vegetable oil. It mixes. Same for fireclean. So why when I mix them...do they not mix? Could it be...that they are different? Not sure what you are getting at. Alcohol and water mix, rum and coke mix, chemical composition/molecular bonding have as much or more to due with two liquids mixing than specific gravity.http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/liquids/faq/miscible-immiscible.shtml So what you're telling me, is that two chemicals can be exactly the same, at the same temperature, and not mix? Show me. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 12:03:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Where is that video where someone did a temperature test and posted it on YouTube? The experiment was done on a similar type of analysis, with result showing the two had nearly identical flash-off temperature and characteristics.
I don't think anyone could tell unless real data could be shown. Maybe here's an idea, send a sample of each to some place like Blackstone and see if they can find the properties. 
I doubt George Fennel will post any data, neither will FireClean. We shall continue with our speculation! 
ETA: I personally doubt that FireClean is just Crisco in a bottle, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a modified version. Like anything, the modification is what you pay for. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 12:22:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Too many "magic beans" being sold as the ultimate gun lube.
Snake oil salesmen! If the stuff was so great it would have a NSN! |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 12:47:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too many "magic beans" being sold as the ultimate gun lube. Snake oil salesmen! If the stuff was so great it would have a NSN! Militec-1 had an NSN
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:04:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what you're telling me, is that two chemicals can be exactly the same, at the same temperature, and not mix? Show me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Funny. When I pour vegetable oil into more vegetable oil. It mixes. Same for fireclean. So why when I mix them...do they not mix? Could it be...that they are different? Not sure what you are getting at. Alcohol and water mix, rum and coke mix, chemical composition/molecular bonding have as much or more to due with two liquids mixing than specific gravity.http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/liquids/faq/miscible-immiscible.shtml So what you're telling me, is that two chemicals can be exactly the same, at the same temperature, and not mix? Show me. No, he is saying the opposite. He is saying like dissolves into like. Two oils will dissolve into each other readily. The oils need not be identical to have good miscibility. That said, your original test shows you have excellent physical intuition. Your test confirms both are oils (aliphatic compounds) and readily miscible. Your test will not show that they are identical. Your test will also show if they are significantly different in chemical make up. If FireClean is Crisco vegetable oil, they will have the identical IR spectra. Some one curious enough can Have the two tested. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:41:42 AM EDT
[#17]
I do not need IR Spectrum to tell you that the two items I added to the container did not mix. Since they didn't mix, the ONLY logical conclusions are:
They were of different temperature: I accounted for that, they were not. They were layered SUPER gently and maybe surface tensions...: I jammed my finger into the shot glass. and last but not least... THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. I fail to see what people are having trouble grasping. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:44:22 AM EDT
[#18]
I do enjoy checking out these threads, and I have not tested any of the new "snake oils", But I have used just about every one of them over the past couple of years, and I have not been impressed with any of them. While I did enjoy trying out the latest incredo-lube for a while, I grew tired of all the disappointment.
A couple of months ago I went back to slip 2000 EWL and 2000 EWL 30 Which I had been using years before all of the snake oil craze and I am remembering again why I liked it in the first place. I use the 2000 EWL for cleaning and the EWL-30 because it stays put. This is what I will use from now on,YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 1:48:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do enjoy checking out these threads, and I have not tested any of the new "snake oils", But I have used just about every one of them over the past couple of years, and I have not been impressed with any of them. While I did enjoy trying out the latest incredo-lube for a while, I grew tired of all the disappointment. A couple of months ago I went back to slip 2000 EWL and 2000 EWL 30 Which I had been using years before all of the snake oil craze and I am remembering again why I liked it in the first place. I use the 2000 EWL for cleaning and the EWL-30 because it stays put. This is what I will use from now on,YMMV. So far, FIREClean is the only one that I've tried that actually met the advertising. The Lucas seems unique, I tried it, too, but prefer the FIREClean. That said, the Lucas is indeed unique in texture as it has a ton of tackifiers in it. But that's not what this thread is to focus on. I created it because more and more people, myself included, had become curious if Fireclean, per Mr. Fennel, was just Crisco Vegetable Oil. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 2:05:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So far, FIREClean is the only one that I've tried that actually met the advertising. The Lucas seems unique, I tried it, too, but prefer the FIREClean. That said, the Lucas is indeed unique in texture as it has a ton of tackifiers in it. But that's not what this thread is to focus on. I created it because more and more people, myself included, had become curious if Fireclean, per Mr. Fennel, was just Crisco Vegetable Oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I do enjoy checking out these threads, and I have not tested any of the new "snake oils", But I have used just about every one of them over the past couple of years, and I have not been impressed with any of them. While I did enjoy trying out the latest incredo-lube for a while, I grew tired of all the disappointment. A couple of months ago I went back to slip 2000 EWL and 2000 EWL 30 Which I had been using years before all of the snake oil craze and I am remembering again why I liked it in the first place. I use the 2000 EWL for cleaning and the EWL-30 because it stays put. This is what I will use from now on,YMMV. So far, FIREClean is the only one that I've tried that actually met the advertising. The Lucas seems unique, I tried it, too, but prefer the FIREClean. That said, the Lucas is indeed unique in texture as it has a ton of tackifiers in it. But that's not what this thread is to focus on. I created it because more and more people, myself included, had become curious if Fireclean, per Mr. Fennel, was just Crisco Vegetable Oil. I'm sure you are far more knowledgeable than I am, but when I look at and smell the cap of a vegetable oil bottle that has aged a bit, it reminds me of fireclean that had sat on a rifle I had not fired in a couple of months. It has the same tackiness and rancid odor. Just an observation of mine. Not saying I disagree with your test. Anyway like I said I will continue to enjoy checking out these threads. Thanks for taking the time for these tests. It doesn't go unappreciated. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 3:28:25 AM EDT
[#21]
If this is the patent for Fireclean it states it's a blend of veg oils, I think...
https://www.google.com/patents/CA2867869A1?cl=en&dq=CA+2867869+A1&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMIyqvwt5XhxgIV0gWSCh2sXg_p |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 6:09:23 AM EDT
[#22]
I have an old bottle of Fireclean that I've only used maybe 1/3 of the bottle.
It has a distinctly rancid odor. Like old vegetable oil. I primarily use Slip EWL. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 6:13:11 AM EDT
[#23]
"So what you're telling me, is that two chemicals can be exactly the same, at the same temperature, and not mix? Show me.
No, he is saying the opposite. He is saying like dissolves into like. Two oils will dissolve into each other readily. The oils need not be identical to have good miscibility. That said, your original test shows you have excellent physical intuition. Your test confirms both are oils (aliphatic compounds) and readily miscible. Your test will not show that they are identical. Your test will also show if they are significantly different in chemical make up. If FireClean is Crisco vegetable oil, they will have the identical IR spectra. Some one curious enough can Have the two tested." ^^^^This^^^^^ OP your original post is confusing, I thought you said they did mix and because they did, Fireclean was the same a veg oil. Your original post is AFU not clear to me. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 11:23:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP your original post is confusing, I thought you said they did mix and because they did, Fireclean was the same a veg oil. Your original post is AFU not clear to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP your original post is confusing, I thought you said they did mix and because they did, Fireclean was the same a veg oil. Your original post is AFU not clear to me. Quoted:
Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg Quoted:
I'm no chemist, a nuke though, I truly am at a loss for a response given the chain of events/data/situation. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 5:53:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. OK, you're smart, I'm stupid. I didn't waste time watching your 3 1/2 min video and I blew through your wordy posts. You could have just said "they don't mix". Thanks for the in depth, scientific analysis! Have a nice day. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 6:19:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, you're smart, I'm stupid. I didn't waste time watching your 3 1/2 min video and I blew through your wordy posts. You could have just said "they don't mix". Thanks for the in depth, scientific analysis! Have a nice day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Background: George Fennel (the inventor of FP-10 and later Weapon Shield) has stated that FIREClean is identical to Crisco Vegetable Oil. Going so far as to state that on a spectrometer, they have an identical signature. http://i61.tinypic.com/25k22kx.jpg I set to prove this either correct, or incorrect. Same-chemicals have same-specific gravities. In other words, they will mix when introduced to one another. This makes sense, right? You pour honey into more honey, and it all looks the same. You pour new motor-oil into a container of the same new motor oil, and they don't "layer", they are indistinguishable. Water into water...water. So on and so forth, provided both chemicals are identical and of the same temperature. So...I bought some Crisco vegetable oil, and some Fireclean, stored them both at room temperature, and poured them into the same container. Not necessarily conclusive if they mix, but pretty damning of Mr. Fennel's hypothesis of them being identical if they DON'T mix. Well, here's the video. You decide...does this look like more of the same chemical being introduced to itself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDOMu0jYETU http://i57.tinypic.com/2a5iqkh.jpg I'm no chemist, a nuke though, and this test tells you very little/nothing. It might be good for oil and water but two petroleum based chemicals/liquids which are very different can mix quite well; ex: oil/gas and in the case of gun cleaning solvents, they could have a similar base say 30wt oil with very different additives and their cleaning abilities could be very different. So without a real chemical analysis you/we don't know anything about Fireclean. OK, you're smart, I'm stupid. I didn't waste time watching your 3 1/2 min video and I blew through your wordy posts. You could have just said "they don't mix". Thanks for the in depth, scientific analysis! Have a nice day. I included pictures for you in the original post. Plus video. Plus wording. I did my best. Sorry it was insufficient. |
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Posted: 9/7/2015 7:51:19 PM EDT
[#27]
As many have said before for the miracle lubes.... the only super lube worth using is UDL.
In all seriousness I do use cleaning solvents and some clp that I have gotten in free samples or had lying around, but for lube I have never found better than a selective application of Mobil1 10W-30, Mobil1 75-90 Gear Lube and Mobil1 synthetic grease in varying mixtures and applications. Oil what rotates, grease what slides with a few exceptions that I might run an oil/grease mix to the consistency of corn syrup (AR Bolt Carrier for example w/ bolt in straight gear lube or 10W30 depending on temperature. |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 5:19:18 AM EDT
[#28]
FWIW, I've found fireclean to be better than slip or machine gun lube in hard use suppressed shorties. Seems to stay in place longer, and I throw it on the mount to help prevent carbon lock up.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 6:24:36 PM EDT
[#29]
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/
I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 7:14:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Wow - didn't see that coming. I am very interested on how FireClean responds.
That, or see if they Lawyer up, and remove the blog... . |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 7:36:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Not a shock, frankly. The whole super-special-secret lube thing is ridiculous. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:15:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow - didn't see that coming. I am very interested on how FireClean responds. That, or see if they Lawyer up, and remove the blog... . I don't think that would work very well since their own patent says it's vegetable oil. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:41:53 PM EDT
[#33]
better than no oil
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:27:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Seems like the next logical thing to do would be for some brave soul (not me, I have only one AR) to tell us how their gun runs on Crisco.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:39:18 PM EDT
[#35]
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Seems like the next logical thing to do would be for some brave soul (not me, I have only one AR) to tell us how their gun runs on Crisco. It will run just fine. It can break down over time, but in the short term it will work without issue. There are a lot of useful lubricants out there with an agricultural base. Hell, for centuries everybody used whale oil on guns and other machines because it worked better than anything else. It would still work great in a modern AR. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 8:50:38 AM EDT
[#36]
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http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. 
Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 9:59:32 AM EDT
[#37]
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Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... I'm thinking that if you are running your firearms to the point where something like autoignition might be an issue, then you should use something that is substantially different from a vegetable oil. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 10:23:32 AM EDT
[#38]
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I don't think that would work very well since their own patent says it's vegetable oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow - didn't see that coming. I am very interested on how FireClean responds. That, or see if they Lawyer up, and remove the blog... . I don't think that would work very well since their own patent says it's vegetable oil. Well, I wasn't imagining the rancid odor from the old Fireclean bottle on the shelf. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:23:46 PM EDT
[#39]
so should I be slathering my suppressor mounts and pistons with rape or what?
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:36:35 PM EDT
[#40]
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Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:49:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... It's gun lube. it matters much less than you think. Use something, anything. Use enough of it. Get it for free if you can, if you cant, buy whats inexpensive. But beware of products that gum up, spoil, turn rancid in storage. The interesting part of this thread is that Fireclean users may have guns gum up and stop working in storage. Just like Froglube and RandCLP. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:49:18 PM EDT
[#42]
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Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. Crisco Vegetable Oil. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's gun lube. it matters much less than you think. Use something, anything. Use enough of it. Get it for free if you can, if you cant, buy whats inexpensive. But beware of products that gum up, spoil, turn rancid in storage. The interesting part of this thread is that Fireclean users may have guns gum up and stop working in storage. Just like Froglube and RandCLP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... It's gun lube. it matters much less than you think. Use something, anything. Use enough of it. Get it for free if you can, if you cant, buy whats inexpensive. But beware of products that gum up, spoil, turn rancid in storage. The interesting part of this thread is that Fireclean users may have guns gum up and stop working in storage. Just like Froglube and RandCLP. How many years must I wait? At roughly the 2 year mark on storage of one carbine. It hasn't gummed up yet... |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:54:27 PM EDT
[#44]
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Crisco Vegetable Oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. Crisco Vegetable Oil. crisco vegetable oil, like most products called "vegetable oil," is made of soybean oil no one is saying fireclean is made of soybean oil, it's made of rapeseed oil rapeseed oil, while technically a vegetable oil, is sold as canola oil in stores |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:58:23 PM EDT
[#45]
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crisco vegetable oil, like most products called "vegetable oil," is made of soybean oil no one is saying fireclean is made of soybean oil, it's made of rapeseed oil rapeseed oil, while technically a vegetable oil, is sold as canola oil in stores Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. Crisco Vegetable Oil. crisco vegetable oil, like most products called "vegetable oil," is made of soybean oil no one is saying fireclean is made of soybean oil, it's made of rapeseed oil rapeseed oil, while technically a vegetable oil, is sold as canola oil in stores this. canola oil is different and the claim is that fireclean is canola, not soybean. pony up a few bucks try again. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:59:01 PM EDT
[#46]
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How many years must I wait? At roughly the 2 year mark on storage of one carbine. It hasn't gummed up yet... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/ir-spectra-fireclean-crisco/ I thought this was quite pertinent to the topic. Let me know how 87 octane performs in motors meant to run on 91 or greater. Seems octane doesn't matter anymore. Spectrometer says so. http:// http://www.analyticalspectroscopy.net/ap4_html_m7d7c0c45.png Those minor differences on the spectrometer reading....they might matter more than you think... It's gun lube. it matters much less than you think. Use something, anything. Use enough of it. Get it for free if you can, if you cant, buy whats inexpensive. But beware of products that gum up, spoil, turn rancid in storage. The interesting part of this thread is that Fireclean users may have guns gum up and stop working in storage. Just like Froglube and RandCLP. How many years must I wait? At roughly the 2 year mark on storage of one carbine. It hasn't gummed up yet... If it works for you and you can afford it, drive on. So why do you care if the world knows its only a veggie oil? Personally, I think gun lubes should have ingrediants listed on them like food products. But Im big on honesty in advertising and marketing. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:03:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
crisco vegetable oil, like most products called "vegetable oil," is made of soybean oil no one is saying fireclean is made of soybean oil, it's made of rapeseed oil rapeseed oil, while technically a vegetable oil, is sold as canola oil in stores Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hard to say but I'd guess having it analyzed and checking the patent info is a much better way to find out than a pour test. Do you think he is lying? Do you think an identical chemical at the same temperature as its counterpart would layer and resist mixing when mechanically agitated? If so, by all means, bartending will never be the same if you can replicate that. Imagine! No need to use different liquor to layer drinks. I'd like 3 layers of Goose! Which Crisco oil did you use? There is more than one type. I dont think FireClean is Crisco. But I do believe Fireclean is vegatable oil. RandCLP is Sunflower oil IIRC. Crisco Vegetable Oil. crisco vegetable oil, like most products called "vegetable oil," is made of soybean oil no one is saying fireclean is made of soybean oil, it's made of rapeseed oil rapeseed oil, while technically a vegetable oil, is sold as canola oil in stores Actually, George Fennel made the claim. That is who ORIGINALLY sparked this debate. Further, how would you know what it's made of? I see no indication that it's any specific oil, as all the spectrum analysis graphs are different. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#48]
It's definitely a mixture of vegetable oils of some type.
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:07:32 PM EDT
[#49]
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It's definitely a mixture of vegetable oils of some type. While that seems to be the case, it's an absurd thing to be up in arms over, and similar to saying "I'll just use RemOil on my M4, because oil is oil, and all these oils are made up of petroleum products!" |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:12:06 PM EDT
[#50]
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Actually, George Fennel made the claim. That is who ORIGINALLY sparked this debate. Further, how would you know what it's made of? I see no indication that it's any specific oil, as all the spectrum analysis graphs are different. you're right I don't know for certain what it is, I was just clarifying his claim for you my only interest in this matter is whether I should be using rapeseed oil from the grocery store to condition my suppressor mounts and pistons the prospect of spending $7.50/oz for any lubricant, regardless of composition or effect, is utterly laughable |
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