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Posted: 10/13/2016 8:32:57 PM EDT
Took my new build (6.5 Grendel) to the range today to test fire and zero.

I put 50 rounds through it, but had to manually load a round from the magazine every single time, due to the BCG not stripping a round from the mag.

50 shots, not one semi-auto feed.

Observations:

1) The bolt locked back on an EMPTY mag every time.  
2) If I hit the bot release it would not feed a round...I would have to pull all the way back on the CH and release to load a round.
3) 40% to 50% of the time when I did this, I would have to mash the forward assist to get it to fully seat.
4) When it would fully seat on its own, half those times it slammed right into battery, the other half it certainly felt/looked a little sluggish.
5) I am using a Spikes T2 buffer.  I reached in my range bag to swap it out for a standard weight carbine buffer, and like a moron aparrently I had put it away, so testing that I was SOL.
6) Using a 10 round E-lander magazine.  Also moronic, I did not bring my 17 round E-lander to test if it was the magazine.
7) Twice the rifle did this, when the bolt dented the casing because it half-fed:


Build details:

    [*] Northtech Defense billet receiver set
    [*] AA 16" Lite barrel w/WCI pepper pot brake
    [*] Seekins SP3R V3 12" rail
    [*] Voodoo Innovations lifecoat integral bolt carrier with AA bolt
    [*] DPMS lower parts kit with Seekins enhanced parts and Strike Industries takedown pins
    [*] Magpul STR stock and Ergo Tactical Deluxe grip
    [*] Geissele SD-E trigger
    [*] Vortex Viper HS 6-24x50 scope, Bobro Vortex cantilever QD mount.


So what do we think the culprit is:

Is it a magazine problem?

Is it the buffer, i.e. too heavy?

Is it the buffer spring?

It seems to me that 2 things are happening...1) the BCG isn't travelling rearward far enough to catch the back of a round and strip it and 2) it's travelling too slow to slam home with enough authority.

What say the hive?
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 2:04:44 PM EDT
[#1]
OK, update. Just got back from the range, and tried a few things.

First, lubed it silly.

Second, swapped out for standard weight buffer.

Third, brought the 17 round e-lander as well.

This time, the rifle fed fine. I would load 2 to 5 rounds, and feeding wasn't an issue. Releasing the CH felt sluggish one time, otherwise the BCG seated with no issues. Didn't have to touch the forward assist once.

However, now it doesn't fully lock to the rear on an empty mag. I tried both magazines, and aside from the very first time I shot it to empty, it locked halfway.

So while it now cycles fine and I had no FTF, I'm still thinking I have a slight undergassed issue. Will pull the bolt again and check the gas rings, and it looks like I'll have to remove the gas block and re-check the alignment.
Link Posted: 10/15/2016 7:26:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Full disclosure, I don't own a Grendel upper.

That said I recently built and tested a buddy's Grendel upper and ran into something similar (Lilja barrel, anderson BC, AA bolt, AA magazine).

In his particular case it was a magazine issue.  

Bolt over malfunctions.  Would strip round if charged by releasing locked back bolt; would not strip round during normal SA fire.  Bolt would lock back if fired with one round in magazine.

AA magazine was swapped out for 5.56 10rd Magpul magazine (4 rounds loaded in mag).  Rifle fed and fired fine.


In your shoes I'd try the following:

-Try lower with known, good 5.56 upper and mags.  Fire off 10 rounds. All we're checking here is to ensure the magazines aren't sitting too low in the lower.  If same malf is seen, you can try tightening up the mag catch.    

If lower works with 5.56 upper/mags, we know it's your 6.5 mags and/or upper.

Try new 6.5 mag.  If problem persists, we know it's a gas issue.
-pull gas block and verify alignment.


ETA:  Dented case shoulder leads me to believe this is a gas issue.  I've seen the same thing in a "custom built" upper with a seriously misaligned gas block.
Link Posted: 10/15/2016 3:03:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Full disclosure, I don't own a Grendel upper.

That said I recently built and tested a buddy's Grendel upper and ran into something similar (Lilja barrel, anderson BC, AA bolt, AA magazine).

In his particular case it was a magazine issue.  

Bolt over malfunctions.  Would strip round if charged by releasing locked back bolt; would not strip round during normal SA fire.  Bolt would lock back if fired with one round in magazine.

AA magazine was swapped out for 5.56 10rd Magpul magazine (4 rounds loaded in mag).  Rifle fed and fired fine.


In your shoes I'd try the following:

-Try lower with known, good 5.56 upper and mags.  Fire off 10 rounds. All we're checking here is to ensure the magazines aren't sitting too low in the lower.  If same malf is seen, you can try tightening up the mag catch.    

If lower works with 5.56 upper/mags, we know it's your 6.5 mags and/or upper.

Try new 6.5 mag.  If problem persists, we know it's a gas issue.
-pull gas block and verify alignment.


ETA:  Dented case shoulder leads me to believe this is a gas issue.  I've seen the same thing in a "custom built" upper with a seriously misaligned gas block.
View Quote


Thanks for the tips.  Just saw this post, and just finished pulling the gas block and re-aligning it, so we'll see if that works.  The circle of carbon left on the barrel did cover the gas port, but it was off to the side a smidge, so that the edge of the port and the carbon circle were touching.  So it wasn't perfectly aligned, but I'll do another range trip to verify if that was the needed fix.

One other thing I noted when pulling the block, there was carbon on the outside of the gas tube up to about a centimeter away from the block.  If it is still undergassed, I may try and "bed" the tube in the block with some Indian Head Gasket Compound, and see if that cures it.

I don't think the magazines are seated too low...if anything the tight springs on the e-landers were increasing drag.  And it will lock back manually if I pull the CH back on an empty mag.  I agree with you, I'm thinking I have a gas problem, and it was either the misaligned block or I'm leaking too much gas at the tube/block interface.
Link Posted: 10/15/2016 6:09:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 10/15/2016 7:47:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The fact that the bolt was locking back on the catch (catch in front of the bolt face, and not just under the bottom of the carrier holding it back), tells you that the problem is not a cycling one so long as the bolt is locking back on the last round out of the mag.
View Quote


So to clarify, after swapping out the buffer for a standard weight and testing a second time, it was not locking back fully on en ampty mag.  So I'm thinking it is a gas issue.  I removed and re-align the gas block and I also bedded the gas tube.  It looked like I was getting some gas leak where the tube inserts into the block.

But here are pics of the feed ramps regardless.





Dirty rifle, sorry.
Link Posted: 10/15/2016 7:58:30 PM EDT
[#6]
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