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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 9/4/2016 10:32:31 AM EDT
I built a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 22" JP barrel and bolt.  It has an extended length gas port location, 2" forward of where a rifle length port would be, and custom gas tube.

It will extract, but won't eject any 120 gr loads that I've tried, factory or handloads.  It will intermittently eject 140 gr factory loads or handloads using RL17 in the 5 o'clock position.  Sometimes with the 140's, it will fail to eject and cause a stoppage.

I pulled the gas block off today.  There was a ring of carbon around the gas port on the barrel, but it was positioned .030" forward of center.

The SLR adjustable gas block measures .305" from end of the gas block to the port.

The JP barrel port location is .275" from the barrel shoulder.  The port diameter is .085"

As a result, when the gas block is seated against the barrel's shoulder, the port in the block is 30 thousandths forward of the port in the barrel, so it is cutting off enough gas flow to cause problems.

Either the gas block or the barrel port is out of spec.  Does anyone know the typical distance of the gas port from the barrel shoulder in an AR10 barrel?  How about distance from end of an SLR block to the center of the port?

It seems I can drill out the gas port in the barrel (not going to do), remove .030" from the back of the SLR block (not ideal), or try a JP LMOS carrier and buffer spring


Link Posted: 9/4/2016 11:02:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/4/2016 11:36:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Semi normal problem, since some gas blocks are produced to incorporate the thickness of the hand guard front ring not in play, and your barrel gas port location is doing this already.

Hence standard distance of a gas port on a AR barrel is .300" forward of the barrel shoulder.

Front hand guard rings are about .025" thick, and a standard FSB would be .275" from the back of it to the center line of the gas pasage.


Now,  since JP did not design the barrel for a front hand guard ring use, the barrel gas port was placed at .0275" off the shoulder, which makes the barrel work with a standard FSB/ Gas block that would normaly have a front hand gaurd ring in play.


Now back to the SLR gas block that you have, and here is the glitch, since it was designed to eliminate the space that a hand guard ring would take up (what the barrel is doing already with the gas port moved back isntead) and the problem at hand.  Hence what you are looking for is a gas block that would be used with a front hand guard ring isntead.  So on such a gas block, it distances from back to the center of gas passage, would be .275" instead.

So to resolve the problem, get SLR on the phone, and let them know that you need to swap out the gas block you have now, for one that will incorporate a front hand guard ring instead.  Hence you have a .300 unit now, and need the .275" unit instead.
View Quote


Thanks, will give them a call Tuesday. However, I just went to their site, and it appears they only produce one .936" gas block.  Not sure if they have one that has .275 spacing, but will find out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2016 12:21:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 9/4/2016 5:15:21 PM EDT
[#4]
I was assuming it was undergassed, because the .085 gas port was being occluded by .025" by the gas block, but could it actually be overgassed?

When firing the 140's, ejection was all over the place.  Sometimes they would be thrown out at 5 o'clock 8 ft. away and sometimes they would barely clear the ejection port, landing a few inches away at 2 o'clock.

With a top load of 42.0 gr RL-17 and a 140 gr bullet, I noticed ejector swipes, extractor claw marks, and a dented shoulder from hitting the brass deflector.  Would brass fired from an undergassed gun cause these things or is that a symptom of being overgassed?

ETA:  It does lock back on an empty mag

I also noticed that after 50 rounds, the gun was extremely dirty.  There was so much residue on the body of the bolt that I could barely move it back and forth by hand within the carrier.  No sure if this points to anything or not.

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</a>CAM00730 by Adam C, on Flickr" />

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Link Posted: 9/5/2016 11:48:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 9/5/2016 12:03:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I used Varget with the 120's, which is much faster burning than the RL-17 I used with the 140's. From what you are saying about peak pressure at the gas port being higher with slower burning powders, it makes sense that the 140's would sometimes eject perfectly, but the 120's would not.  I guess from that we can conclude it is undergassed.

Do you happen to know what the gas port diameter normally is for a rifle length 308 barrel?  I'm wondering if JP used the same port diameter, but moved it 2" forward?

I'm hoping that after resolving the gas block alignment issue, there is enough pressure to get the 120's to cycle reliably without going to a lightened carrier.

I will call JP as well.  I'm wondering if when designing the XL gas port location, they intended it to be used with their LMOS carrier?
Link Posted: 9/24/2016 12:01:38 AM EDT
[#7]
SLR sent me a .270 block to replace the .300" one.  I took the gun to the range today and noticed a definite improvement.  The 120 gr loads with Varget would eject, but only barely clearing the ejection port at 3 o'clock landing 1 ft away.  The 140 gr loads with RL-17 functioned perfectly.  I did get a couple of double feeds with the 120's.

What are my options for getting the 120's to run right?  Clipping off a coil from the buffer spring?  What about running an AR15 rifle length buffer spring?  LMOS carrier?  Buy a suppressor (LOL)?

Being that I not a fan of clipping springs since it causes problems on the charging stroke instead, would touch base with the barrel manufacturer to get their blessing on opening up the gas port up one size, and not voiding their warranty.  That is once, you have checked the gas system for any leaks that may need to be weeded out first.

Short of this, then since this is not a full auto rig that you are worried about bolt bounce on lock up, you can always lighten a buffer is needed instead.
Link Posted: 9/24/2016 7:15:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Are you saying that it is ok to use an AR15 buffer in an AR10 rifle, or are you suggesting removing one of the weights from my current AR10 buffer instead?

Does anyone make a spacer that will allow use of an AR10 carbine buffer in a rifle length tube?
Link Posted: 9/24/2016 5:37:38 PM EDT
[#9]
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