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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:08:10 PM EDT
Bought a 3lb Velocity trigger at a gun show cause it felt nice and didn't know at the time that they say not to use them in pistol conversions. Well I put it in a 45acp pistol and found that it would consistently fire in quite illegal magazine emptying manner. Inspected everything I could think of and couldn't identify anything out of spec, put the trigger in both a 223 and a 6.5 and it functioned properly for multiple magazines in each of those rifles. Both triggers out of the 223 and 6.5, one a military type and one 3.5lb from CMC, functioned properly for multiple magazines in the 45 pistol.

Does anyone know why the trigger behaved in that manner? I'm wondering if it has to do with the extra mass of the bolt and buffer used in the pistol calibers slamming closed and the vibration knocking the disconnector off the hammer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2016 10:24:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Most likely your bump firing.
Link Posted: 1/24/2016 10:38:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 1/24/2016 11:31:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Did you remove the two set screws in the body and tighten down the two tensioning screws below them?
Link Posted: 1/25/2016 2:34:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Definitely was not bump firing in terms of tapping the trigger multiple times, that was my first thought since it is only 3lbs but I tested that theory out on multiple magazines and can rule that out. Squeeze and hold it would fire continuously, single taps and it would reset and hold. Could easily and repeatedly do 3-5 rounds bursts while I was trying to troubleshoot the pistol.

Will reexamine the trigger in the current rifle and see where everything resets again to make sure where exactly the front of the trigger is when the disco releases, I didn't notice anything abnormal when I was troubleshooting it in the pistol but it is hard to see into those areas. The disco in the Velocity triggers is the full width of the trigger so it has much greater mass than other discos that I have seen so still wondering about the bolt slamming shut and supplying enough vibration to cause it to release the hammer.

Worked with the set screws tried different pressures, even tried tightening down one side and backing the other out to see if tilting the trigger would work.

I'm definitely not going to reinstall the trigger into the pistol especially since I now know the manufacturer says not to, but I would like to understand why it behaved in that manner.
Link Posted: 1/25/2016 2:43:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Can you measure the reset length of the trigger?  How much forward movement is required for the hammer to drop off the trigger onto the trigger sear?
 



ETA: I normally measure mine from the center of the trigger bow.  With the trigger installed in the lower, I use my calipers to pull the trigger.  Once the trigger is all the way back, I reset the hammer, zero out the caliper, then slowly let the caliper close until the hammer drops off the disconnnector.
Link Posted: 1/25/2016 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Jaqufrost, that was pretty difficult to measure.

Averaging my measurements out I come up with the trigger having .08 inches of movement from all the way back to full forward. Starting from all the way back as 0 it takes to .066 for the disco to release however it appears that the trigger doesn't engage until .065 which by my measurements leaves a interface .001 between the hammer and the sear.

So Dano523 and Jaqufrost if i measured accurately i would take it that that is a problem.
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 12:53:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 11:31:29 AM EDT
[#8]
I did do that, when I said squeeze and hold I really was squeezing and holding, like white knuckle squeeze and hold. That's why I can't believe that I was bump firing.

I shot over 400 45 rounds trying everything I could think of. Different tensions on the set screws everything from screws removed to tightened down so much that the safety couldn't rotate to safe anymore. Took parts in and out to look at them and compare to any info i could find on the web, swapped out buffer weights to see if it was mass related (all that did was alter the fire rate as should be expected), altered my stance and tried different holds and tried sandbagging the gun in a rest.

Fired another 90 rounds with the trigger in the 223 where it worked properly. Tired 60 rounds in the 6.5 where it also worked properly.

Shot another 100 rounds of 45 using the triggers out of the 223 and the 6.5, both of those triggers functioned properly the CMC is single stage and the military type is of course is two stage.

The disco catches .03 inches onto the hammer and spring doesn't seem exactly weak.
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 11:52:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 12:17:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Sounds like it's just jarring the disco loose every shot.  
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 6:37:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Thank yall guys for the measuring ideas and extra things to check, looks like the the military type trigger will stay in the pistol until I get tired of it and the Velocity trigger unless it misbehaves again will stay in the 223.
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