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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 5/17/2015 6:56:09 PM EDT
Hello all,

I've got a problem I'd like some help with.  I just recently built a new AR-15 from the ground up.  My experience level is that I've built 2 AR's from the ground up (except drilling/reaming taper pin for FSB/Gas Block) and done modifications to a DD rifle.  The parts of interests are Spike's Tactical with a DD Barrel, DD Gas Block, and Geissle SSA Trigger.  Complete parts List below:
- Spike's Tactical FDE Stripped Lower/Upper combo (FA & Cover installed)
- Spike's Tactical LPK (minus fire control group)
- Spike's Tactical T2 Buffer, Buffer Tube, Spring, QD Receiver Plate, Castle Nut, Melonited Gas Tube
- Spike's Tactical NiB BCG
- Geissele SSA Trigger Group
- Daniel Defense Lightweight profile, Mid-length, CHF, Chromed, 16" 1:7 Barrel
- Daniel Defense Superior Suppression Device
- Daniel Defense Low Pro Gas Block
- BCM KMR13, Cerakoted Magpul FDE @ Dobb's Defense
- Magpul MBUS Sights
- Magpul STR Stock, FDE
- AXTS Raptor Charging Handle
- Troy Ambi Mag Release
- BAD-ASS Ambi Safety w/ Standard & Hybrid Lever
- Stark SE-1 Grip
- Vortex StrikeFire Non-Magnified Red Dot
- ErgoGrip Keymod Enhanced Angled Grip
- Noveske QD Direct Attach Swivel Mount

I took it out for the first time yesterday and at first I thought everything was fine.  However I had two instances of the same failure (in a total of about 200 rounds fired).  During a string of fire (perhaps 0.5 seconds between rounds, plenty for everything to settle) I had the bolt lock up in a mostly closed position.  The bolt is about 1/8" out of battery.  There was a live, unfired, round in the chamber at this time.  The field expedient fix was to mortar the gun to let inertia loosen the bolt.

Luckily a friend happened to be filming me while this happened.  See slow-motion, 240 FPS, Dropbox video below (pay no mind to my terrible trigger reset... I'm a relative newb).  Also I've screen-grabbed & cropped a pic of the bolt in battery during normal operation and out of battery (basically the failure) shown below.  

Dropbox: Slow-Motion 240 FPS Video

In Battery Photo
Out of Battery Photo

Speaking to a few guys at the range a conclusion was reached that, in the failure case, the bolt is closing on the round without the extractor making it over the rim of the cartridge but is rotating enough be stuck.   Some suggested that there might be wrong with the extractor spring and that it should be replaced.  Since it is such a cheap fix I already have new springs (mil-spec Spikes in old case, David Tubb springs in the new case) on order.

After looking at the video evidence it is also obvious that I've got erratic and inconsistent ejection.  Sometimes the rounds eject at 5 O'Clock with little rotation, sometimes they eject at 2 O'Clock with lots of rotation and everywhere inbetween.  Could these 2 problems be related?  Could the gun be undergassed and that is why the extractor sometimes doesn't make it over the case rim?

Thanks in advance!
Scout
Link Posted: 5/17/2015 9:06:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Wish I could help, it looked like it was running good.
Maybe looked to be cycling rather fast? But your components list looked good, so I'm doubting it.
New ammo? Some tight New parts maybe needing extra lube?
I'm sure it's something small/ easy.

Nice build regardless
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 12:30:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 9:12:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pull all the way back on the charging handle, and look where the face of the bolt stops compared to the back edge of the ejection port window.
The face of the bolt should stop 1/8" to 1/4" in front of the back of ejection port window edge.  The allows for compression of the buffer bumper, and to insure that the spent brass is not tagging the back of ejection port window edge on the way out (brass should be tagging the very end of the upper receiver deflector at most, and not the end of window edge/flat edge at the start of the defector)..
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pull all the way back on the charging handle, and look where the face of the bolt stops compared to the back edge of the ejection port window.
The face of the bolt should stop 1/8" to 1/4" in front of the back of ejection port window edge.  The allows for compression of the buffer bumper, and to insure that the spent brass is not tagging the back of ejection port window edge on the way out (brass should be tagging the very end of the upper receiver deflector at most, and not the end of window edge/flat edge at the start of the defector)..


http://steamforge.net/img/debug/1.jpg
http://steamforge.net/img/debug/2.jpg
http://steamforge.net/img/debug/3.jpg
This is definitely a problem.  The front of the lugs are about flush with the absolute back (most extreme part of curved edge) of the ejection port To bad I already stake the receiver plate/castle nut.  Guess I'll be ordering another one of those... gotta keep her a bit pretty.  Why is this even a problem?  All of the buffer/tube parts as well as the upper/lower and BCG are Spike's.  Currently, the tube basically touches the detent so I will have to face it to fix this issue.  Is a part out of spec?  Should Spike's send me a new... something?  That being said, my factory DD rifle that has performed flawlessly for 1000 rounds doesn't appear to have the Bolt any more the 1/16" farther forward.




Quoted:
pull back and ride the B/C all the way forward to back to make sure that there is not binding.


I don't think this is an issue.  I pushed the BCG forward and backward several times, very slowly, and everything feels nice and smooth and even.  I can push the bolt into battery with one finger.  




Quoted:
Note, with the upper coated, may have gotten some coating on the inside of the receiver, and this is causing the key to bind up on the sides of the upper receiver U slot.

The inside of the upper receiver is Cerakoted (this part was factory Cerakoted) and the entire inside is coated.  But it was clearly done "on purpose."


Quoted:
Next, pull the ejector off the bolt and look at the color of the insert in the ejector spring. If it is black, then it should not have any O rings or D fender around the extractor spring when the extractor is reinstalled the the bolt. The Black insert is a marker that the extractor spring is already over tensioned from a standard spring, and when an O ring or D fender is added, the tension becomes too great to allow the extractor to cleanly slip over the rim of the case as loading.


http://steamforge.net/img/debug/4.jpg

I'm assuming you mean extractor here.  FYI, this is my 1st time removing an extractor.  I pulled the Bolt out of the BCG and the extractor seems a bit stiffer than my DD.  Of course the DD has been shot a lot more.  The Extractor feels so stiff I can't just "apply pressure and push out the pin" like I've seen guys do in a couple YouTube videos.  I tried it on my DD bolt and it was easy-peasy.  Any advice before I go gorilla on it?  FYI there is no O-Ring.



I'll get to more later.  I have to go to work now :(
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 5:31:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/18/2015 6:34:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just use a punch, and punch the extractor pin out of the bolt so you can remove the extractor.

As for not removing it before the rifle was fired the first time ????????
The entire rig should have been pulled down to a cleaning level before the rifle was fired the first time, including pulling the B/C down to give it a cleaning as well.

Once all the assembly/storage lube/debries are removed, and even scrubbed out of the chamber with a chamber brush and CLP, then the upper receiver bearing areas should have been lubed with CLP for break in.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just use a punch, and punch the extractor pin out of the bolt so you can remove the extractor.

As for not removing it before the rifle was fired the first time ????????
The entire rig should have been pulled down to a cleaning level before the rifle was fired the first time, including pulling the B/C down to give it a cleaning as well.

Once all the assembly/storage lube/debries are removed, and even scrubbed out of the chamber with a chamber brush and CLP, then the upper receiver bearing areas should have been lubed with CLP for break in.

Will do.  Always learning :)

Quoted:
http://steamforge.net/img/debug/3.jpg
As for the tube end to buffer retaining pin, again, you want the end of the tube to kiss the center post, and in your photo, looks like the end of the tube is back a country mile instead (read should have been faced when it was installed to begin).

And no, no one owes you anything, since there is a touch of fitting and cleaning up of parts that involved in assembling a rifle.  
As for the staked castle nut, pick up a three prong castle nut wrench, and you will be able to spin the staked castle nut back off without making a mess of it to fit the receiver extension tube correctly a second time around (correct bolt retraction distance/kiss the post of the buffer retainer/ index is correctly for the butt stock)..

I'll be getting on this soon.


Thanks for the help!
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