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Posted: 3/28/2015 5:53:01 PM EDT
Hy gents,
I do own a Frankenstein AR 15 built by myself. I am having over pressure problems with hot hirtenberger ammo.
Let me explain the rifle first.
It is a Bushmaster predator 20 inch barrell on a yankee hill upper, JP full weight bolt carrier and jp steel bolt. Spring and buffer are standard.
Range 11000feet elevation. Andean Mountains.
M 855 3049 fps no issues goog groups 250 yards
M 139 3300 fps no issues groups are bad at 250 yd.
Hirtenberger 55 gn ammo. 3453 fps with overpressure signs. Primer is out. small damages in the brass and the bolt does pot adjust properly for the next shoot. Groups are B.S.
I believe I do habe some pressure issues. Need some suggestions: using a heavier buffer or spring will help? Do I have to use a regulable gas key? Avoid Hirtenberger? Other sugestions?
Thank you

Link Posted: 3/28/2015 6:50:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 7:45:12 PM EDT
[#2]
3453 fps from M193 is too hot by at least 200 fps.

Blown primers are a dead give away.

Don't shoot any more of that ammo. Inspect your firing pin tip for damage, replace it if it's got a sharpened tip caused by gas erosion.
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 10:00:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 3/28/2015 10:32:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Barrel should be 5.56 Nato according to the manufacturers specs.
I have no way to demonstrate if this is true or not. There is no go no go gauge in the country. I might purchase those in my next trip to the us this november.
M 855 i have is us ammo as well as the M193. Might be that the Hirtenbergers I have are a bad lot.

Altitude: 695 hPa preassure against 1024 sea level.
means at sea level preassure is allmost 1 kg/square cm. Here about 600 g /sq cm. Means preassure against the muzzle is allmost half.

What I wonder is that speeds in 855 and 193 are allmost same as the ones at sea level.

Guess Hirtenbergers will be disassambed and reasambled with proper loads.

Whay would yos say about an H buffer?
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 12:56:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Your (Lake City I presume) M193 and M855 are full power loads and and its performance is creating a baseline for you.

This Hirtenberger ammo is showing over-pressure signs as well as poor accuracy.
I would regard this ammo as defective.
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 2:09:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 6:44:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Very usefull information.
thank you.
Ammo is Salt Lake.
Telescoping stock.
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 4:16:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Very usefull information.
thank you.
Ammo is Salt Lake.
Telescoping stock.
View Quote

The tele stock puts you into the carbine buffer weight system.
I carry all weights....CAR, H, H2 and H3 in my range kit.
In this way, I can swap them out for the best effect depending on ammo.
I use H2 most of the time, if I were to pick one.

So many ask, "Which buffer ?" and there's no way to answer definitively via the internet.
Too many variables.

Sounds like your rifle is built like a Canadian C7


Link Posted: 3/29/2015 7:15:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 3/29/2015 9:27:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Go back and take a look at his elevation (11k feet, hence reduction in barometric pressure that the bullet has to fight against).

Also, you may be thinking that the ammo is out of the LC plant in the USA; while it may be from another country instead.  Hence ATK holds the M-193 to 3200fps at sea level for the M-16/M-249, while ammo out of say Germany like the Hirtenberger (RUAG and the ammo now made by Norma), may be producing ammo much faster or slower instead (all depends on the rifles that they are being manufactured for in the first place).

Bluntly, M-193 and M-885 are just the bullet designs in the greater sence, and not a speed hold spec for how the bullets itself is loaded across the world instead.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
3453 fps from M193 is too hot by at least 200 fps.

Blown primers are a dead give away.

Don't shoot any more of that ammo. Inspect your firing pin tip for damage, replace it if it's got a sharpened tip caused by gas erosion.


Go back and take a look at his elevation (11k feet, hence reduction in barometric pressure that the bullet has to fight against).

Also, you may be thinking that the ammo is out of the LC plant in the USA; while it may be from another country instead.  Hence ATK holds the M-193 to 3200fps at sea level for the M-16/M-249, while ammo out of say Germany like the Hirtenberger (RUAG and the ammo now made by Norma), may be producing ammo much faster or slower instead (all depends on the rifles that they are being manufactured for in the first place).

Bluntly, M-193 and M-885 are just the bullet designs in the greater sence, and not a speed hold spec for how the bullets itself is loaded across the world instead.


Elevation has zero effect on muzzle velocity. Higher elevations have thinner air and bullets loose velocity at a slower pace than they would at sea level.

Higher ambient temperatures or leaving ammo sitting in direct sunlight will increase velocity. We're talking almost 250 fps faster than government reference velocity for 55 grain fmj M193 ammo.

That ammo is loaded too hot. M193 is loaded to spec of approximately 62,000 psi in order to push that bullet that fast. If the Armed Services could safely get 3400+ fps and still be under 62k psi. that would be their new spec. They can't or they would.  
Link Posted: 3/30/2015 4:00:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

?????
SL brass stamped US ammo is, St. Louis Ordnance Plant - St.Louis, Missouri: (November 1941 to June 1945), and never produced 5.56 nato ammo (5.56 was not first produced until the early 60's)

Current ammo US ammo be head stamped LC, which is  Lake City Ordnance Plant, Independence, Missouri: and currently run by  ATK. (1940–Present)


If you want to check the brass head stamp and figure where the ammo came from, then here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_headstamps
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ammo is Salt Lake.

?????
SL brass stamped US ammo is, St. Louis Ordnance Plant - St.Louis, Missouri: (November 1941 to June 1945), and never produced 5.56 nato ammo (5.56 was not first produced until the early 60's)

Current ammo US ammo be head stamped LC, which is  Lake City Ordnance Plant, Independence, Missouri: and currently run by  ATK. (1940–Present)


If you want to check the brass head stamp and figure where the ammo came from, then here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_headstamps



Lake City is a US Government Owned Ammo Plant currently operated under contract by ATK.  Previous contracts to run Lake City were held by Winchester in the past.
Link Posted: 3/30/2015 4:23:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 3/30/2015 8:45:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Salar de uyuni is allmost 14.000 feet high.
I said Salt Lake City, because I believed ys military ammo is built there. Understand US military ammo. Is the one with the cross. LC and WCC nato

Regarding bullet speeds at differen altitude, the only experience I have is that reloaded 9 mm ammo for IPSC has to be loaded with a little bit extra powder when we compete in lowlands. Factor decreases in lowlands in high altitude reloaded ammo. Just as comment. Do not ask me for a scientific explanation I have no idea why. No idea what happens in rifle loads. I will make exact notations next time I bring my at home reloaded ammo to shoot in lowlands and present exact numbers in a proper ammo topic.
Link Posted: 3/31/2015 7:50:34 PM EDT
[#14]
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