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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:55:45 AM EDT
The Backstory:
Recently picked up a New-In-Wrapper Les Baer Black Phosphate BCG for an AR pistol build from the EE. Build went together no problem, function check seemed decent, and then I got it to the range. The Issue: Upon Firing, the BCG does not cycle all the way back, causing the spent brass to be loaded back into the chamber. Thinking perhaps this was an issue with my upper, I placed the BCG in two different factory-built AR's as well as another user built AR pistol, using different ammunition, and different magazines, to test, every single shot causing the same issue. Placing a known-good (Smith & Wesson Factory) BCG into the upper causes it to function normally. After returning from the range frustrated, I pulled out both the BCG's to compare the non-working Les Baer, and the working Smith & Wesson to see if there were any noticeable differences. I immediately noticed that the Les Baer appeared to have an excessive amount of wear on the front bottom of the carrier assembly beneath the bolt. Here are the comparison shots: Smith & Wesson - Functional BCG - 300+ rounds through it. 
Les Baer - Non-Functional BCG - Less than 60 rounds through it. 
The Question(s): So now I ask the AR Gurus of ARF to educate my feeble mind. 
Thank you very much for reading through this and providing any assistance. I'll gladly post up any more photos or information that anyone feels might be helpful to solving the issue. Cheers, Spenny. |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#1]
it appears the shape of the les baer carrier is considerably different from the other carrier you have for comparison, but i don't know if this would be a problem or not. check for gas leakage at the key and the force required to move the bolt within the carrier. new parts can sometimes be quite tight and from what I have read, les's parts are very tightly fitted. make sure the carrier is well lubed inside to allow the bolt to move as easily as possible. when you manually cycle the bolt on an empty rifle, how does it feel?
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Posted: 7/17/2014 11:23:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Good job troubleshooting and narrowing it down to that specific BCG. I would be taking a hard look at the gas key to see if it's loose and leaking. If loose, replace the screws, torque to 50-58 in/lbs and stake.
Instead of email to Les Baer, I would call and talk to them about a replacement or repair if you don't want to take on the task. |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 3:06:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good job troubleshooting and narrowing it down to that specific BCG. I would be taking a hard look at the gas key to see if it's loose and leaking. If loose, replace the screws, torque to 50-58 in/lbs and stake. Instead of email to Les Baer, I would call and talk to them about a replacement or repair if you don't want to take on the task. Better to torque the bolts to the old specs of 37 inlbs. I state this since you are never sure if you are getting new spec key bolts that will hold on the new higher torque levels, or older key bolts that torqued to the older lower spec's instead. As for checking the gas key, just spray CLP around the base of the key to carrier, hold the bolt in, and pressurize the front of the key to 100lbs with an air compressor. If you get leaks/bubbles from the key to carrier, then the key needs to be pulled, bottom of key and top of carrier lapped, new bolts used to reinstall the new key, then the key metal staked to flow key metal into the side spines of the key bolts. As for the wear on the carrier, it normal since the carrier is coated, instead of just parkerized instead. So short of a key base leaking at the carrier, check for hammer wedging (tail of the trigger and disco will have a dent/white line) from maybe the bottom of the carrier being slightly lower, and make sure that the gas tube is correctly aligned with the new key carrier (use just the carrier and key without bolt in the upper receiver hand fitted). |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 7:55:15 PM EDT
[#4]
So I get home, head downstairs to take a look at the BCG and perform the tests suggested above.
Pop open the rifle, extract the BCG, begin a cursory visual inspection and... 
Unfortunately, per the Les Baer Website: Policies On Parts Sales:
No returns will be allowed if the product has been altered in any way! No returns for credit after thirty days from invoice date. On all returns, no credit will be granted for shipping charges or surcharges. A 20% restocking fee will be charged on all returned merchandise. Absolutely no exceptions to above stipulations! Note: The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any seller or manufacturer to give a written warranty. It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be designated as "limited” or as "full” and sets minimum standards for a "full” warranty. Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either "limited” or "full”, rather than attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Act and the regulations issued thereunder. There are certain implied warranties under state law with respect to sales of consumer goods. As the extent and interpretation of these implied warranties varies from state to state, you should refer to your state statutes. Les Baer Custom, Inc. wishes to assure its customers of its continued interest in providing service to owners of Baer Custom firearms. Guessing I'm SOL. 
Going to call again tomorrow, but I thought I'd ask; anyone have a line in to LB? 
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:06:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Do my eyes deceive me? Are both screws broken? |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 9:28:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do my eyes deceive me? Are both screws broken? You're right on. Both of them, broken. 
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:00:07 PM EDT
[#7]
if you take the carrier to a machinist he should be able to back both of those screws out, as soon as the torque resistance is released those screws should come out quite easily.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:08:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you take the carrier to a machinist he should be able to back both of those screws out, as soon as the torque resistance is released those screws should come out quite easily. Hrm. Still a bit of a bunk product unfortunately. |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 10:21:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Broken key bolts are a manufacturer defect, plan and simple, and it's a warranty items so long as the carrier is still in a serviceable condition (it is).
But if they do give you grief over it, then No machinist needed. Micro torch to heat up the screw if they will not free turn now (mirco torch will not burn off the finish on other areas), and then just thread out the broken bolt threaded sections. The bolt with some protrusion should be able to be threaded back out with a just needle nose pliers, and the one a touch deeper, Smaller jewelers flat tip should be able to give you enough bite in the center of that one to thread it back out. From there, lap the bottom of the key, then using lapping compound and the key, lap it into the top of the carrier. clean off all the lapping compound, and with new Key bolts, install the key as noted above. And to point out, this is way you only want to torque the bolts to 37inlbs. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:15:32 AM EDT
[#10]
There are great comments already.
Les Baer has a strong brand and wants to protect the brand and has great service. they will probably (I hope) be concerned that there was a BCG problem and such fragile bolts when you tried to solve a simple gas leak at the key and they will probably want to be all over this and make sure you are happy. Probably. Dano hit it with it if you want to extract the bolt screws yourself. Good Luck |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 1:31:06 AM EDT
[#11]
That's disappointing. At least it's fixable though. I hope the seller on EE wasn't aware of this issue. On a side note, Dano do you have a link to a list of all torque settings for the AR, M16/M4? I have a lot of them in my head from building my own rifles but my memory isn't the greatest and I've been meaning to make a list for the entire rifle
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Posted: 7/18/2014 9:24:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's disappointing. At least it's fixable though. I hope the seller on EE wasn't aware of this issue. On a side note, Dano do you have a link to a list of all torque settings for the AR, M16/M4? I have a lot of them in my head from building my own rifles but my memory isn't the greatest and I've been meaning to make a list for the entire rifle I hope not, and think it unlikely considering it was sealed, new-in-wrapper. Hoping to actually get ahold of LB today. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:17:39 PM EDT
[#13]
I've also never seen a carrier that was machined slanted on the bottom right beneath the bolt. Seems to protrude more as well. I'm not familiar with LB tho
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:21:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier.
Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! 
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:30:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier. Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:37:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier. Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol Feel free to IM or post them up, since this thread certainly deals with torque. haha. And I don't really know if going after the seller is going to get me any where. It's been a bit and it was NIW, so I don't know that I want to kick up any dust making any allegations. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 12:44:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Feel free to IM or post them up, since this thread certainly deals with torque. haha. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier. Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol Feel free to IM or post them up, since this thread certainly deals with torque. haha. Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs. Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 foot Lbs plus or minus 2 foot Lbs. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 3:58:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs. Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 inch Lbs plus or minus 2 inch Lbs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier. Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol Feel free to IM or post them up, since this thread certainly deals with torque. haha. Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs. Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 inch Lbs plus or minus 2 inch Lbs. Colt and FN got higher grade steel to use for Mil spec supply/parts (key and key bolts), so they raised the torque value on their key bolts/ it was changed in the current TM's. The downfall, not all the civilian supplies are supplying these new higher strength bolts/keys that withstand the higher torque values, so on the note, use the old TM spec of 37inlbs. This torque valued have worked for decades, and even if you get stronger bolts and keys, it will still work with them as well. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 9:24:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt and FN got higher grade steel to use for Mil spec supply/parts (key and key bolts), so they raised the torque value on their key bolts/ it was changed in the current TM's. The downfall, not all the civilian supplies are supplying these new higher strength bolts/keys that withstand the higher torque values, so on the note, use the old TM spec of 37inlbs. This torque valued have worked for decades, and even if you get stronger bolts and keys, it will still work with them as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got an email to send them my number so Les can call me to talk about the carrier. Will update with what I hear back, though I'm hopeful that they're taking an interest in it, I also understand that it wasn't direct from the factory, and despite it's new-in-wrapper nature when I purchased it, they can't make any guarantees on something like that. We'll see! Well I hope it works out for you bro you got screwed on that deal. I just found that list of torque values for the whole rifle if you want them too. (Good to have written down with a memory like mine) lol Feel free to IM or post them up, since this thread certainly deals with torque. haha. Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs. Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 inch Lbs plus or minus 2 inch Lbs. Colt and FN got higher grade steel to use for Mil spec supply/parts (key and key bolts), so they raised the torque value on their key bolts/ it was changed in the current TM's. The downfall, not all the civilian supplies are supplying these new higher strength bolts/keys that withstand the higher torque values, so on the note, use the old TM spec of 37inlbs. This torque valued have worked for decades, and even if you get stronger bolts and keys, it will still work with them as well. Good to know! Any idea why the plus or minus 2 inch pounds after the initial 40 for the carbine castle nut? Ever since my first build I've wondered why but never looked into it |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Carbine receiver extension castle nut torque to, is 40 FT LB, not inch lbs, and the same amount of torque that you would use to install a standard receiver extension tube as well.
+/- 2 ft lbs is really just a range if the torque wrench has not been calibrated recently to be on the money. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:30:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Carbine receiver extension castle nut torque to, is 40 FT LB, not inch lbs, and the same amount of torque that you would use to install a standard receiver extension tube as well. +/- 2 ft lbs is really just a range if the torque wrench has not been calibrated recently to be on the money. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 4:51:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen so many people arguing about whether it's " lbs or ' lbs, I know magpul claims inch Lbs as well but foot pounds makes more sense though. I'm gonna edit that list so nobody's unstaked castle nut screws itself out then break out my torque wrench and torque my castle nuts to 42 foot Lbs. Thank you for clearing that up! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Carbine receiver extension castle nut torque to, is 40 FT LB, not inch lbs, and the same amount of torque that you would use to install a standard receiver extension tube as well. +/- 2 ft lbs is really just a range if the torque wrench has not been calibrated recently to be on the money. 12" in a foot, so 40inlbs is 3.33ftlbs, and not enough to hold the receiver extension in place. So if you want a measurement for the receiver extension castle nut in inch pounds, then it would be 480 in lbs (40 X12= 480). |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 5:18:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
12" in a foot, so 40inlbs is 3.33ftlbs, and not enough to hold the receiver extension in place. So if you want a measurement for the receiver extension castle nut in inch pounds, then it would be 480 in lbs (40 X12= 480). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Carbine receiver extension castle nut torque to, is 40 FT LB, not inch lbs, and the same amount of torque that you would use to install a standard receiver extension tube as well. +/- 2 ft lbs is really just a range if the torque wrench has not been calibrated recently to be on the money. 12" in a foot, so 40inlbs is 3.33ftlbs, and not enough to hold the receiver extension in place. So if you want a measurement for the receiver extension castle nut in inch pounds, then it would be 480 in lbs (40 X12= 480). Well I got it to 40 foot pounds on my home defense AR just now and half of the "castle nut half moon" on my armorers wrench literally snapped off. Lower and rec. Extension seem to be ok though. I hope!! Want to recommend a quality armorers wrench that won't snap for me? Lol I can't stand POS tools. Can't even believe that just happened. I might FCAW it back on but I still need a higher quality castle nut wrench if not a whole new armorers wrench |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 5:37:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs.
Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 foot Lbs plus or minus 2 foot Lbs. Have not seen one of those. Mind posting a pic? |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 5:50:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have not seen one of those. Mind posting a pic? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Flash hinder/comp- 15-20 foot Lbs.
Barrel nut- 30 ft Lbs or up, but not to exceed 80 ft Lbs lining up barrel nut/ gas tube. Bolt Carrier key screws 35 inch Lbs to 40 inch Lbs (Dano says 37) Rifle receiver extension castle nut 35-39 foot Lbs. Carbine receiver extension castle nut 40 foot Lbs plus or minus 2 foot Lbs. Have not seen one of those. Mind posting a pic? It was a copy/paste from a Google search and I added the Dano part smartass |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:30:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a copy/paste from a Google search and I added the Dano part smartass Well, thanks for posting the specs. I saw someone posting about an A2 paper today, and didn't know what that was either. He had autocorrect to blame it on. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 7:00:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, thanks for posting the specs. I saw someone posting about an A2 paper today, and didn't know what that was either. He had autocorrect to blame it on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It was a copy/paste from a Google search and I added the Dano part smartass Well, thanks for posting the specs. I saw someone posting about an A2 paper today, and didn't know what that was either. He had autocorrect to blame it on. I don't know what an A2 paper is either so I can't fault him for that |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 9:04:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryBetter to torque the bolts to the old specs of 37 inlbs. I state this since you are never sure if you are getting new spec key bolts that will hold on the new higher torque levels, or older key bolts that torqued to the older lower spec's instead. |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 11:06:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. That's something I have never heard of, not even in the Colt or SAW classes. Might you have a linked source? Armalite in their tech note has been recommending the higher value since 2001. I trust correctly made US #8 caps screws, like Holo-Krome to hold fine and of course the Colt ones. Though not application specific, I believe that Holo-Krome lists a torque spec of 55 in/lbs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better to torque the bolts to the old specs of 37 inlbs. I state this since you are never sure if you are getting new spec key bolts that will hold on the new higher torque levels, or older key bolts that torqued to the older lower spec's instead. Eric, fully agree that that the 55in lbs is safe as long as you know that you are not dealing with import key bolts of lesser quality. We are only taking 3ftlbs from the old bolt specs to 5.5ftlbs of torque for the new bolt specs, but it enough difference to end up with broken bolts when you factor in heat and service life stress to the bolts from the key. If anything, if anyone has any doubt of the true source of the key bolts, then just play it safe and torque to 37inlbs. The key will hold fine at this bolt torque, and you won't have to wonder if you are going to have to dig broken bolts out of a carrier down the line. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:31:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Got a call from Les today regarding the BCG.
He told me that he had seen the photo of the gas key screws sheered off, and that he hadn't gotten any issues like it with regard to the carriers. Told me to send it in and they'd figure it out, then turn it around and send back... the same day. Awesome. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:19:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got a call from Les today regarding the BCG. He told me that he had seen the photo of the gas key screws sheered off, and that he hadn't gotten any issues like it with regard to the carriers. Told me to send it in and they'd figure it out, then turn it around and send back... the same day. Awesome. Good to hear bro!! Awesome! 
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Posted: 8/5/2014 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Just got the phone call from Les.
Repaired, Shipped out. No charge. Will post AAR once I take it to the range. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 12:38:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got the phone call from Les. Repaired, Shipped out. No charge. Will post AAR once I take it to the range. good, i was fixing to say, i know who NOT to buy from if they don't own up to it. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:48:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Wanted to post an update:
Got to shoot the affected rifle with Les Baer's repaired BCG, and it functions flawlessly. I have to say that Les Baer and Les Baer customs did a stand up job repairing my BCG despite being under absolutely no warranty or obligation to do so. Thank you to everyone who gave advice in this thread and thank you Les Baer / LBC for your awesome customer service! |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:33:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
despite being under absolutely no warranty or obligation to do so[/span]. Not really buying this, since the problem was a manufacturer defect from the start, and the assembled part began its life defective. In cases as such, even down the line at 10 years plus and the parts failing (read someone that only shoots a hundred round a year), the manufacturer has a responsibility to repair his incorrect manufactured work so long as the part is still in serviceable condition. Had you worn the bolt or key out to take them to the end of their service life, such as plasma cutting on the bolt face from normal primer blow by or wear to the key channel from the gas tube, then no manufacturer should have to replace it due to such. But Key bolts are not a wear item, so either the key is correctly installed via the bolts from the start, or it is not. Same goes for bolts, being that they should wear at a normal rate, but at no time, should a lug fracture off , or the lugs prematurely wear under normal use from the bolt not being heat treated correctly. Simply, a manufacturer may have a limited time warranty, but that is based on the parts being produced in spec to begin with. When parts are not produced to spec, and the manufacturer is trying to hide behind a limited time warranty, that is when myself and the rest of the staff here tend to go rabid on such a manufacturer instead (it gets ugly really fast). To sum it up, There are some very good manufacturers that are a stand-up group; which Wilson is one of them. They need no prod'g to do the right thing when there is a manufacturing defect that needs to be resolved, and we hold Wilson and others in high regards for taking this stance. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 5:48:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really buying this, since the problem was a manufacturer defect from the start, and the assembled part began its life defective. In cases as such, even down the line at 10 years plus and the parts failing (read someone that only shoots a hundred round a year), the manufacturer has a responsibility to repair his incorrect manufactured work so long as the part is still in serviceable condition. Had you worn the bolt or key out to take them to the end of their service life, such as plasma cutting on the bolt face from normal primer blow by or wear to the key channel from the gas tube, then no manufacturer should have to replace it due to such. But Key bolts are not a wear item, so either the key is correctly installed via the bolts from the start, or it is not. Same goes for bolts, being that they should wear at a normal rate, but at no time, should a lug fracture off , or the lugs prematurely wear under normal use from the bolt not being heat treated correctly. Simply, a manufacturer may have a limited time warranty, but that is based on the parts being produced in spec to begin with. When parts are not produced to spec, and the manufacturer is trying to hide behind a limited time warranty, that is when myself and the rest of the staff here tend to go rabid on such a manufacturer instead (it gets ugly really fast). To sum it up, There are some very good manufacturers that are a stand-up group; which Wilson is one of them. They need no prod'g to do the right thing when there is a manufacturing defect that needs to be resolved, and we hold Wilson and others in high regards for taking this stance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
despite being under absolutely no warranty or obligation to do so[/span]. Not really buying this, since the problem was a manufacturer defect from the start, and the assembled part began its life defective. In cases as such, even down the line at 10 years plus and the parts failing (read someone that only shoots a hundred round a year), the manufacturer has a responsibility to repair his incorrect manufactured work so long as the part is still in serviceable condition. Had you worn the bolt or key out to take them to the end of their service life, such as plasma cutting on the bolt face from normal primer blow by or wear to the key channel from the gas tube, then no manufacturer should have to replace it due to such. But Key bolts are not a wear item, so either the key is correctly installed via the bolts from the start, or it is not. Same goes for bolts, being that they should wear at a normal rate, but at no time, should a lug fracture off , or the lugs prematurely wear under normal use from the bolt not being heat treated correctly. Simply, a manufacturer may have a limited time warranty, but that is based on the parts being produced in spec to begin with. When parts are not produced to spec, and the manufacturer is trying to hide behind a limited time warranty, that is when myself and the rest of the staff here tend to go rabid on such a manufacturer instead (it gets ugly really fast). To sum it up, There are some very good manufacturers that are a stand-up group; which Wilson is one of them. They need no prod'g to do the right thing when there is a manufacturing defect that needs to be resolved, and we hold Wilson and others in high regards for taking this stance. Very well put, and having read that, I agree with you. I simply meant that based upon both LBC's returns/warranty policy on their website, and the fact that the part was purchased second hand could have dissuaded them from wanting to fix it for free. Instead, I was able to discuss the issue with Les himself, and have it rectified expediently. I am thankful that they took time to deal with the issue, despite it allegedly not having been reported before. You are probably very much correct about their need to fix it, and I'm certain it is in the best interest of showing good customer service to have done so, warranty or not. If you think it best to archive, sink, or lock this thread, feel free to do so. Thank you for all your help and input! Cheers, Spenny |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 10:05:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Glad to hear you are back up and running.
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