I have a lower build kit from PSA, before I install it, can someone post links for DIY polishing the trigger?  Tried doing a search, but didn't pull up anything, thanks in advance.

Many say don't do it because you can get through the hardness and shorten its life.

If standard trigger, you put one of those grip screw adjuster gizmos in it? Well worth the $10 to get rid of most of the creep.

I drilled a hole in the selector and tapped (well, tried to tap) for a 440 set screw to adjust overtravel. Got greedy just as the tap was coming through and snapped it off.

Planning on drilling another hole up through the front of the trigger to adjust the disconnect/reset.

One of these days when I get motivated I'll get back in there and give er another swing.
There are some pretty sweet options out there that do all this stuff, but buying shit is lame. I have more fun seeing what kinda damage I can do 1st

I used to send mine off to get them polished and adjusted for $25.  With the immense amount of triggers on the market, I wouldn't waste my time with a stock, milspec trigger, unless that was what I wanted.  

If you correctly adjust the angles and polish, you will need to modify the safety.  

..........and cutting a hammer spring is a complete waste of time.

I did a little tutorial FWIW.

DIY FCG Polish

Bad idea. Check out the ALG, Rock River, and PSA EPT for a cheap improved mil spec trigger.

I think I saw some talk of bending the legs on the trigger/hammer springs to lighten up the preload on them, but never heard of cutting them.
Is that like cutting one side of it off so it has 1/2 the spring rate?

The surface hardening is very thin, only a few thousandths of an inch thick.  Unless you really know what you are doing, I'd advise against it.  The best way to polish an otherwise good trigger that may be a little gritty is to simply lube it and shoot it.  It will smooth out the high spots and not remove the surface hardening.

Here's a pretty good one:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/544583_Trigger-work-.html

ALG QMS, it's like $45-50 can't go wrong.

This. QMS and ACT are awesome.

If you bend one leg upward at about a 45 degree angle it will reduce the trigger pull weight considerable without affecting reliability.  I wouldn't cut a leg off as I would have trust issues.

Why take a chance when you can get a PSA EPT trigger for $30. It's already polished and coated. I have three, and they all have no take-up, are crisp in their break, and have short resets (2-3 mm). They are still a bit heavy at an estimated 6 lb. break, but a set of springs can lower that if you want a lighter trigger. I have been happy with mine as delivered.

Do you speak from experience as having tried in the past or just what you read from Bill Springfield? I have worked with/ performed 20+ DIY trigger polishing projects with addition of JP Reduced Springs and JoeBob's grip screw and  not one issue with 1000s of fired. End result is always just at 3.5# pull with no take up no double fire etc.  I do agree that folks with little to no understanding should research this extensively but not to the point that it scares them from a DIY attempt.

I've got a trigger from him in a drawer - it started doubling after a few hundred rounds.

I've polished my own and hadn't had issues but I use a 1000 grit stone and only make a few passes.  I haven't done it in years now and generally just buy a nice two stage like the MBT.

I'd really like to see close-up pics of an AR trigger that Mr Springfield polished.
I've heard of polished triggers doubling, never experienced it myself with any I've polished.
It's just odd that a guy who makes his living enhancing triggers would have so many problems and still be in business.  Googling him reveals many that are happy with his work so this is puzzling.

Something to remember, he works on FCG's from many different companies.  The depth of hardening can vary between different companies or even trigger batches.  Some of his triggers may last quite awhile, others wear out quick.  All should leave his shop working, but how many go into AR's that only see 100 rounds per year?  If it takes 1,000rds on average to wear out - plenty of guys could have their sweet trigger for 10 years without it failing.

This is classic "you give a guy a rope, he thinks he's a cowboy". I wouldn't polish hammer/trigger surfaces. It's just not safe. I'm not a gunsmith or a manufacturer. I don't try to do things beyond my skill level. I don't try to make things what they are not by cannibalizing them. I buy good triggers and have peace of mind. -CB

Agree this is a classic case of those who elect to polish and those who elect to purchase any variation of triggers etc. I happen to be in the elect to polish group without any fear of legal reprisal whatsoever...... The amount of money I have saved by being in the elect to polish group has further afforded me to build 3 more rifles that I would not otherwise have had I purchased drop in triggers etc.

It's easy to go through the hardened surface and you won't know if you did until it starts doubling or worse.

Seriously why waste time and money when you can get the same thing for $30-$50 from a reputable company?

My time is worth something and I see no point in trying to reinvent the wheel.  There's no upside and plenty of downsides.

How does NCStar remain in business and have good reviews?  

People are generally stupid, cheap, and most won't put 500 rounds through a rifle in their lifetime.

So you saved how much per "polished trigger" setup?  How many of these triggers have you done and how many rifles do you have?

With how much a quality aftermarket enhanced "mil-spec" FCG costs, it would seem you'd have to do this for 20-30 rifles before you'd have saved enough to build another complete AR, let alone 3 of them.

ETA:  It gets even worse when you factor in the cost of the JP springs and grip screw adjuster you mentioned in your earlier post.

The first two rifles I built were fitted with $199 Timney triggers which I really like and still use today. The next two builds were fitted with the ALG ACT triggers which were not so great compared to the Timney. So with four spare mil-spec trigger laying around from the LPK I decided to see if I could get them to perform close to the Timney using the DIY polishing methods. This proved to be successful in my case and has continued to be without fail as indicated in my previous replies. I guess that I have probably performed the polishing on over 50 mil-spec FCG with 18 of those in my own rifles.
The JP springs are $11.00 for the set and the JoeBob's grip screw is $5 each if you buy them in a quantity of 3 without the wrench.  So I will let you do the math had I continued to use the Timney drop triggers in my other 18 builds.

I'm with Paxdad on this one. Way back in the old 10/22 days there were absolutely no after market options other than a honing stone for their triggers. Thats where I started and kind of like fiddling with my triggers. Sure I have good triggers in my match AR's but for the knock around ones the DIY triggers are good enough for me.

To each their own, I guess.  It still isn't worth it, considering there's no way to tell if you've gone through the surface hardening until it's too late.

I challenge you to exhibit a single case (where a malfunction of a semi-auto rifle) resulted in the penalties above. Good luck..........I am done on this thread but do appreciate your concern for myself and the other DIY folks on here and other forums.

The 1st part I agree with, but the 2nd shouldn't be a problem if you don't go batshit on it.

Some people prefer to put the best trigger money can buy in. It works.
Others prefer the diy method. This takes more skill, but also works if you have a head for this stuff.

I prefer the diy route for the application I see most of my guns in. I have been building/fixing shit since I was a little kid so this is not foreign to me.
I can definitely make something better, or completely fkn destroy it in the process. Either way, I would kinda feel like a bitch for not trying.
I think my background, desire to learn more, and pride in my own work are the main reasons this route is the better one for me.

Others may have pursued other interests so this sort of thing might be better left to somebody with a head for it.
Maybe they don't have the time or the skills to diy this job. Maybe they they can't afford to take any risks for a particular application.
Whatever the reason, buying a trigger might be the better route.

Reading between the lines in that link, sounds like that dude had an m16 fcg, less the auto sear.
On top of that, idiot buddy was doing idiot things with it, repeatedly, in public.

If you tune up a trigger to the point of malfunction, most people would stop shooting, fix it, and start over.

All M16 parts, that doesn't really fit.

It was still a crap decision against Olofson.

I've seen that case mentioned around here, but hadn't seen the details.

If he was dumb enough to drop an m16 fcg in there without doing something like swap the disco or even just grind the tail off, I say good lock up.

IIRC, it shipped that way from Olympic Arms back in the 80's.

Sounds like the ol "I swerved to miss a dog" line. Not that I wouldn't have tried the same

I would think Oly would be in the cell next to him if that were the case.

Maybe they got off on transferring a mg because the gun was 20yrs old and the transfer beyond the statute of limitations

I remember it was pretty common to have a m16 parts in guns back then, but no fkn way I'd rock a combo that allowed hammer follow.
Doing some reading, looks like they weren't the only ones. Surprises me they wouldn't swap in a sa disconnect, or neuter the fa one.

Removing any metal through polishing of a standard G.I. trigger is a recipe for disaster. I've hired it done by two different (highly regarded) gunsmiths and the end result was always the same. The trigger began to double after several hundred to less than 1k rounds fired. I ended up replacing the trigger groups with factory or aftermarket units.

With all of the great triggers available in the aftermarket there is absolutely no reason to pursue this activity. Many sources now sell lower parts kits w/o the trigger and hammer at a discount. This allows the home builder not to waste money on parts they won't use. Simple trigger upgrades like ALG's or BCM's $60 - $70 finely finished standard triggers or Rock River Arms 2-stage units are economical upgrades that are head and shoulders better than working on issue G.I. triggers that are known to fail when polished.

Many people buy triggers that are way too light for use in a self-defense/duty rifle. All NRA/CMP tournaments require a minimum trigger weight of 4.5 pounds and this is truly a great trigger. In fact any AR-15 with a trigger weight between 4.5 lbs. and 5.5 lbs. is capable of excellent accuracy. Triggers wear over time and a 4.5 lb. trigger today will hold less weight than that once it wears. Know that when choosing your trigger weight.

I've taken a dremmel and a small amount of polishing compound to every trigger I've ever had, pistol or rifle  (minus my Geiselle's) and never had issues. It always helps and as long as you are POLISHING  and not grinding you are fine. Just do the gwt greedy with the process. Just do a light Polish and accept the results. It will help but if it's still not enough it's time to look at buying a different trigger group.

I lightly polished the front face of a couple mil spec triggers I have, just enough they felt smooth to the touch, 5 seconds or less with a dremel on low and metal polish. I didn't touch any other surfaces. It did help with the grittiness.

It's funny, your dilemma was something I was recently faced with.  I'm not an experienced AR guy, but have done a lot of trigger work on other guns. 

When my PSA lowers were fully assembled, the trigger pulls were long, nasty, and just under nine pounds. After pondering a while, there was no doubt I could make them considerably nicer.  Then I started looking at off-the-shelf trigger groups.  There are so many products out there that it's overwhelming.  You'll see a lot of stuff out there in the 99-250 dollar range. Then I found a Geissele SSA-E at a deal that made me sit up and take notice.  The temptation was too great, and I took the lazy man's way out. There's no doubt Geissele's performance is better than anything I could do with the Plain Wrap triggers. 

But there's no reason you shouldn't play around and "adjust" the PSA trigger a little bit.  If nothing else, the experience will be free and it will be educational.  You'll surely be able to make it better than it is.  And if you end up wrecking it, so what?  I think replacements are $29 from PSA.  But that would be a great excuse to upgrade to something a little nicer.  

Take some pictures and let us know how your experiments go.

I don't think there is a debate that a certain amount of material is removed, even when you only stone and polish.
Removing too much material will both remove the hardening and change the geometry of the FCG. A responsible stoner/polisher is not going to
change the geometry. If it is done right, nothing will be corrupted. To remove surface hardening, one or more things will have to happen. One is to overheat the part and the second is to remove enough material to get "under" the hardening. Well I don't think anyone is overheating their triggers and hammers when stoning and
polishing. You would have to take it over the bench grinder to overheat it, and if you did- your trigger would be ruined instantly anyway.

So how deep is the hardening? No one seems to know exactly but I'd venture to guess that stoning and polishing won't affect the hardening. Here is why.....

I measured the thickness of of the front part of the trigger as shown in the first pic. I did it with two different mics
to cross check my measurements. The first is an unbranded mic with a working friction stop. Next is my "trusty rusty" Starrett mic (friction stop does not work).
I know that the surface I'm polishing is does not affect fire control group function (except the front edge) but
it is the only surface that I could both polish and measure properly. So the first mic indicates that the trigger is @ .1814", the Starrett indicates just over .181"





Pic of factory finish, trigger is from Tactical Innovations.



So next I did my standard polish job. @30 seconds of rotary motion on a fine ceramic stone and then polished with a felt tip on my Dremel using
"Flitz" metal polish.



Last two pics are measurements on the polished trigger. According to the first mic, there was a loss of approx. .0002" or .0003" and for the Starrett- @ .0001"
I understand that the mics are not graduated to .0001", I'm just estimating.






So it appears that a loss of @ .0001 to .0003" occurred. Assuming the geometry has not changed and the hardening is deeper than what was removed, how is it possible that this will cause
the fire control group to malfunction? Doesn't make sense to me, although I guess anything is possible.
It seems to me if your polished trigger fails after 1000 rounds (assuming it was properly polished) it was probably going to fail anyway.
I'd still love to see some close-up pics of a polished trigger that either failed, doubled, or went full auto. I'd like to see if there is any evidence of what went wrong.
No one has offered any pics yet.

If my reasoning is incorrect or my interpretation of the measurements is wrong please correct me.

Maybe you can't, but I definitely can. Appears others in here can also.
In this mass produced world, the mfg has to leave much on the table to account for other tolerances in the receiver.
When you have all the parts in front of you, you can wind it up as tight (or as loose) as you want, depending on the application.

GI triggers leave a ton on the table. $20 and some time can make a huge difference, as long as you don't get stupid in there.

But, but, that ain't my soap

I hear ya there and a scary possibility for sure.
If you are responsible and quit shooting the dang thing and fix it if you run into a malfunction, it doesn't looks so much like that was your intention.

I suspect if that dudes idiot buddy hadn't kept shooting the "malfunctioning" rifle, and took it back to be fixed, dude never would have went to the pokey.

Your describing a disconnector timing issue.  That is easily fixed by trimming the front of the disconnector so it can pivot a little farther forward.

I agree on the statement in blue, you can pick up an RRA two stage Varmint for about $80 delivered.

So you are now indicating that even your mil-spec trigger failed after putting several thousand rounds through it........ Probably should start buying "soap on a rope" as a back up plan for trip to club fed?? LOL