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SDD
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:34:48 PM
I am looking at getting a rifle kit from Palmetto state armor.
I don't know if I should get a chrome lined barrel or hammer forged chromoly barrel.
Which is better pros/cons?

Also how do the PSA rifle kits do with steel cased ammo?

Thanks,
SDD
inferno715
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:40:57 PM
Chrome lined.
one day the dark horse will come

SDD
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:44:19 PM
Can you explain why?
jeebus
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Posted: 4/13/2012 4:45:11 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 4:48:00 PM by jeebus]
My understanding is chrome holds up better in the long run (especially under fa fire) but isn't as accurate as non chromed. Either way the barrel will probably last the life of a civilian rifle. It basically comes down to price and how much you shoot I guess. I don't think psa has them, but I prefer nitride treated barrels. Lower price point, same durability as chrome but accurate as cm barrels. As for steel cased ammo, I don't have experience with psa barrels but generally I've found steel cased to be fine as long as you clean the rifle well before switching to brass. The steel doesn't expand as well allowing more crud into the works. When you switch to brass, which does expand, that crud can stick the casing into the chamber. I've shot plenty of steel cased trough all of my rifles with no problems. It
Did however chip up my brass deflector on my A2 more than brass tho.

Eta: I choose chrome lined whenever the price allows and if nitride is unavailable. It's nice knowing you've got "the best" you can get.
Obo2
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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:13:32 PM
it's a preference call. Hammer forged chrome moly will be more accurate than chrome lined. Chrome lined will last longer and be easier to clean.
nhsport
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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:33:38 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 5:37:41 PM by nhsport]
When folks are talking accuracy here it is a matter of degree . Not at all a case of good accuracy against poor accuracy.

We are talking good accuracy and better accuracy.

Many uses of an AR and truthfully many shooters would not see a difference.

If one were to be setting up a rifle for Service Rifle or some other long range competition use or for a dedicated long range varmint rifle (think 300+yds on rockchucks or crows, yotes out to 200 go with the chrome lined) you would look for a high end competition barrel without the chrome lining.

For three gun,carbine competitions and pretty much any general shooting the easy cleaning abilities of the chrome lined and its long service life
are more valuable that some small hard to detect accuracy advantage.

The AR with any barrel is naturally a very accurate platform. Until the players got involved a dozen or so years ago the standard setup for service rifle with an AR was a more or less as issued AR with chrome barrel , non floated hand guard and standard sights and the hotshots did some crazy shooting with rifles never seen today at service rifle shoots. Everyone wants the latest in gear and rifles but it is about the shooter and his skill level.

I am disappointed that no one has thrown the old AR15 mantra at you––––––––Go Chrome or Go Home!


Let me put it this way- If you are going to be doing most of your shooting with costly primium bullet factory loads or handloads made with high end match bullets then consider non lined barrels. If most of your ammo is going to be with ball ammo or off the shelf standard ammo just go with the chrome lined tube
durabo
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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:46:24 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 5:47:30 PM by durabo]
PSA does not offer any non chromelined CMV barrels either separate or in a kit to my knowledge.

So what you are really asking is if you should get a hammer forged chromelined barrel or a button rifled chromelined barrel.

Both will out last your ammo budget ... 20k+ rounds equals quite a bit of money.

Neither is shown to be more accurate than the other... both are as capable a method as the other at creating equally accurate barrels... although hammer forging requires a stress relieving process to remove the stresses induced by the forging process.

Hammer forged barrels are actually much cheaper to produce than button rifled ones once the initial cost of the equipment is paid off, and can be produced in much larger quantities faster.



The bottom line is you will not see a functional difference any more than you would between any other 2 chromelined barrels... each barrel has its own potential in barrel life and accuracy and no two barrels are the same... and since you won't be buying both to compare you will NEVER know the difference.

Saying the hammer forged barrel has a higher potential to be more accurate is incorrect.

You are better off buying the cheaper one and putting the extra money towards more ammo to practice, or buying a 22lr conversion kit to practice, or choosing a SS alternative which WOULD have a higher potential for greater accuracy.

SDD
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Posted: 4/13/2012 11:09:43 PM
This is why I am confused. People are telling me it doesn't really matter and it does matter.

I don't know what I should choose.
APBullet
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Posted: 4/13/2012 11:49:38 PM
[Last Edit: 4/13/2012 11:53:30 PM by APBullet]
Hammer is better than button and as mentioned either is fine, but get chrome. I'd be more concerned about getting a quality bolt in a kit than whether the barrel is hammer or button. The way I see AR15 rifles is you have your budget builds from kits that run about $500.00 to $750.00 and they make fine rifles If your going to the $1000.00 +/- $100.00 range you might as well get a 6920. After that you have those who choose their parts on a build individually/separately based on the highest quality and preference and sometimes for these people the cost isn't even in the equation. It's what a person wants. Having choices is good. Shit some have optics on their rigs that cost more than my best AR rifle.
SDD
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Posted: 4/15/2012 1:43:51 PM
durabo is correct. Both are chromelined.

The two kits I am looking at are

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-mid-length-a2-style-profile-cmv-chrome-lined-mp-rifle-kit.html
Their website says this about the barrel...
"Barrel: 16", CMV (4150) Steel, Special A2-style profile, 5.56 NATO chamber with a 6-groove, 1:7 right-hand twist , chrome-lined, bore, mid-length gas port, and M4 feedramps. Barrels are high pressure tested, mag particle inspected, and are finished off with a taper pinned, f-marked, front sight post, standard Mid-length handguards with heat shields, and an A2 flash hider."

and

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-hammer-forged-mid-length-rifle-kit.html
Their website says this about the hammer forged barrel...
"Barrel: A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process work hardens the steel, making it more durable. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a Mid-length gas system. A2 style profile barrel is Mil-spec phosphate coated, High Pressure tested and Magnetic Particle inspected. Barrel is finished off with an F-marked front sight post with sling swivel, standard handguards and an A2 flash hider."

My question is right now I can buy the second kit or I can wait for the first kit to become avalable (and I don't know how much the first kit is) but do I want to avoide a double chrome lined barrel?
durabo
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Posted: 4/15/2012 3:18:27 PM
The double chromelining is cool and all if you can afford to shoot 30K rounds a year... go ahead and calculate out how much that would cost you to shoot, I'll wait...

You might want to calculate it both with cheap steel case plinking ammo, and again with high end match ammo...

Now that you see the cost, consider how easy it would be to take some of that ammo out of the equation for the cost of a rebarrel... hell $400 bucks of that could get you a top of the line sub MOA barrel...

A chromelined barrel will last around 20k rounds... more or less depending on firing schedule.
A double chromelined barrel will last what.. 30? 40k? more or less depending on firing schedule.
An Unlined CMV barrel will last 10K ... more or less depending on firing schedule.
A cheapo 416 SS barrel will last 10K-15K ... more or less depending on firing schedule.
A nice top of the line LW50 SS barrel will last 15-20K ... more of less depending on firing schedule.

You have to consider your end needs, your budget, and really what you want to do with it. You could easily drop a bottom shelf unlined barrel in the hands of a top shooter and they will make it sing for as long as they need to. And you can drop a high end quarter MOA capable barrel in the hands of a internet commando (who will SWEAR you need a hammer forged chromelined barrel or you will die when the zombies come) and he won't be able to hit the broadside of a barn.

I personally have found that it is better for ME to buy the highest end barrel I can and shoot whatever I can through it... I know and am aware of the limitations of myself and my ammo... I let the barrel be a known factor and try to improve myself.

I'll worry about my barrel lifespan after it is burnt out.
SDD
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Posted: 4/15/2012 3:53:08 PM
Thanks for the helpful post durabo.

I will wait for the CMV chromelined barrel to become available.
theloss52
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Posted: 4/21/2012 2:19:15 PM
slightly less accuracy with a Chrome Lined, but much higher durability! I always opt for Chrome Lined, but I'm shooting tactical matches, not precision 600+ yard shots. Even then, I would get a SS barrel, not a chrome molly.
MSPRet
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Posted: 4/21/2012 4:09:23 PM
[Last Edit: 4/21/2012 4:09:55 PM by MSPRet]
Chrome lined barrels in AR's are nice, especially if your going back to Viet Nam with it and are going to fire it on full auto. Think about it this way, if it was a Remington Model 700, a Winchester Model 70 or a 200 series Savage the barrel would not be chrome lined, would you worry about those?...No, of course not. I have mostly chromelined barrels iin my AR's but it is getting to be less of a "neccessity" now that I have thought about it over the last few months....<><....:)
chasw
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Posted: 4/21/2012 8:32:43 PM
[Last Edit: 4/21/2012 8:33:49 PM by chasw]
Chrome lined barrels are not always less accurate than plain chrome-moly steel. My low cost, chrome-lined, Green Mountain 20" govt profile barrel shoots very well, 10 rounds into less than an inch at 100 yds is not uncommon. If you are building your own rifle, you can pick what ever barrel you want, not just what your selected dealer offers in a kit. - CW

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/productdetail.aspx?id=GM-M17


smitty704
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Posted: 4/21/2012 9:31:48 PM
My 14.7" PSA is CHF and CL. Great rifle. Buy one and you won't regret it.