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Posted: 3/1/2012 1:11:56 PM EST
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?
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Link Posted: 3/1/2012 1:42:31 PM EST
You can build a forged lower for almost the same price, I dont like the plastic ones.. Not because they wont work, but I am hard on the guns sometimes, toss them in the truck, drop them when the phone rings, ect.... Plastic may not be the best option..
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Link Posted: 3/1/2012 1:42:49 PM EST
I would look here for the lower

And here for the upper

My 2 cents

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Link Posted: 3/1/2012 1:50:37 PM EST
I don't have a plum crazy lower but I have friends who do and they have never had a problem with them. I wouldn't suggest using one as a club but for shooting they seem to be good. If you are looking for the least expensive lower check out the new frontier armory lowers. Joe bob outfitters has them for 99.99.

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/
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Link Posted: 3/1/2012 1:57:18 PM EST
If you buy a LW-15 you might upgrade the internals, they are all poly just like the receiver. But with that, its a GREAT deal.
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Link Posted: 3/1/2012 2:19:54 PM EST
Joe Bobs has the NFA lowers for 99 bucks with free shipping.

I have one and the trigger is pretty damn good. Look in the Industry section for a short range report.

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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:03:04 AM EST
I would go with the Polymer lower for your budget build. I have the LW-15 Lower and it is awesome. I was very skeptical about buying mine, but for the price I couldn't resist.

Now for the guy that said he is too hard on his guns to have a plastic lower. It is not plactic, it is polymer, and is everybit as strong as a metal lower. Infact, if you drop a your gun and lets say your lower reciever hits a rock. A metal one can dent, maybe not much but enough to where a magizine will have a hard time seating, and ejecting properly. Polymer has the ability to go back to its original form.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:39:20 AM EST
By all means go with the polymer lower, if you do break it, its guaranteed for life so no loss. I have the LW and it fits my 604, A3, A2 and Blackout uppers better than my Spikes Lower and the trigger actually feels better than those you get in all but the most expensive LPK's.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 12:42:06 PM EST
I am building two guns now with LW lowers same as the plum crazy. I got two complete working lowers for 217 out the door... I swapped out the FCG with metatl internals all the way from the trigger up and they fit fine and work fine as I am using a .22lr upper on one and the polymer hammer won't work with a .22 bolt unless you shave it down on both sides.

Like everyone else said lifetime warranty and cheap. I don't care who you are unless you get second hand everything you can't put a complete lower together for the same price unless its used period. a cheap aluminum stripped lower reciever is still 49.99 plus shipping +10+FFL transfer fee 10-50 so theres 70. A trigger kit is 25-35 a buffer tube and buffer with sprinig is another 20-30 and then you still have to buy the stock. A cheapy is 10-35 so looking at the cheap numbers. Its what 125+. Did I change the trigger on mine yes but for other reasons then it doesn't work. They function fine for a 5.56 bolt... And it cost me nothing has I had all the parts from two guns I already have custom triggers in. Gotta love left over parts from a past build!
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 12:58:29 PM EST
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 6:00:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 6:34:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 6:55:45 PM EST
How much are you saving using a polymer lower vs. forged aluminum?
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 8:10:17 PM EST
I have the Frontier Arms lower and it fits a dsa upper tighter than my aluminum lower of another reputable manufacture! I cant say they are as tough, but for 99.00 complete, I am happy with mine. Worst case I will pull the butstock off and put it on the next lower.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:09:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Schroedum:

Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.


When will the people that are for the polymer lowers accept that polymer made pistols and polymer AR lowers are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!

Polymer pistols were designed from the ground up to be made form polymer. Because of this, the polymer is strengthened in areas it needed it because that was part of the original design

Polymer lower receivers are molded to the same dimensions that were DESIGNED for aluminum! There are going to be different stress points and tolerances between the two...

polymer pistols vs polymer lowers = apples vs oranges.

Why risk it when you can get high quality stripped lowers for $59 from aimsurplus.com?

Buying a polymer lower is your decision.... but going to other threads and advising people on them, calling them great after "Three WHOLE trips to the range without a failure!!!" is not a good idea. Give one to a guy who actually works with his rifle. I'll stick with the stuff that has been PROVEN to work, the same stuff the men and women operating in combat venues overseas use, because I'm not one to be a guinea pig. If some day my life depends on my rifle, I want to KNOW it will work. If you are just looking for a range toy that you will never have to stake anything on its operation, then buy cheap. Otherwise, buy what is proven.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:13:58 PM EST
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:18:17 PM EST
Surplus Arms and Ammo stripped lower: $59.95
STAG LPK: $49.95
6 position collapsable stock with mil-spec tube, buffer, spring, end plate, castle nut: $44.95

Complete cost for complete lower? $154.85
Having a quality lower you can trust? Priceless.

Or you can save $54 bucks and have something that hasn't been proven yet and not know what you're getting.... but quite honestly, in my opinion, if $54 is enough to break your bank account then you need not get an AR.... you wont be able to afford to shoot it anyways.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:18:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Junk is still junk!
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:31:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schroedum:
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.

Poor choice for a comparison.

Locking blocks for the XD-45 and the M&P are held by the disassembly pin, trigger pin, another pin, and by frame molding.

Locking block for the Glock is held by trigger pin and frame molding.

Most of the forces seen by the locking blocks are transmitted the frames, not the pins. Other pinned parts don't see much force sent to the pins themselves.

AR trigger pins usually don't see much force (they can with a lot of trigger slap) but the hammer pin does. The forces are transmitted directly to the pins and holes that are securing them. That can be a problem, though how much of a problem I wouldn't know for sure since I don't own a polymer AR lower.

I do own a Glock and one day after leaving a gun show I yanked off the skinny tie wrap looped through the mag well and ejection port (yeah the gun show person really did that). The tie wrap popped as expected but left a nice gouge on the bottom of the mag well. Tell me a metal frame would've done the same. I used a bic lighter to melt and reshape that gouge so it appeared normal again.
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 9:41:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/6/2012 9:42:43 PM EST by Aimless]
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 10:11:48 PM EST
I am probably gonna make an enemy or two asking this however that is not my intent.

I am not sold one way or another, but everywhere I read people come out to bash the polymer lowers. I just ask one question. Where are the failures? I read alot of negativity before I bought mine but I saw very few I owned one and it was crap because........ posts. Not saying they are not junk,,,, not saying they are junk,,,, but who has had one fail on them and how/what failed?

Ok, I will put my nose back in the corner......
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 10:15:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins


Do a little researhc and you will find lots of pictures of these polymer lowers snapping at pressure points. See above highlights text for a partial answer to your question.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 10:17:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By tumbleweed:
I do own a Glock and one day after leaving a gun show I yanked off the skinny tie wrap looped through the mag well and ejection port (yeah the gun show person really did that). The tie wrap popped as expected but left a nice gouge on the bottom of the mag well. Tell me a metal frame would've done the same. I used a bic lighter to melt and reshape that gouge so it appeared normal again.


Maybe thats why these guys like the polymer lowers.... if they scratch their lower they want to be able to melt it back to normal!
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 10:27:55 PM EST
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Link Posted: 3/6/2012 10:34:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Rio_Grande:
I am probably gonna make an enemy or two asking this however that is not my intent.

I am not sold one way or another, but everywhere I read people come out to bash the polymer lowers. I just ask one question. Where are the failures? I read alot of negativity before I bought mine but I saw very few I owned one and it was crap because........ posts. Not saying they are not junk,,,, not saying they are junk,,,, but who has had one fail on them and how/what failed?

Ok, I will put my nose back in the corner......

There have been plenty of pictures and posts about plum crazy lowers breaking. I would not lump all polymer lowers together. While not perfect cavarms had a pretty good track record after awhile.

I don't know why you would make enemies. If you are pleased with yours, then all the better. It would not make me happy to hear that your rifle broke.

I've said this before, people get too emotionally involved in firearms discussions, or all discussions on the Internet. I'm sure if I posted pictures of everything I did for a day I would have a thousand guys who live in their mom's basement posting that my car is too old, my house too small, my wife too short and my cat too fuzzy, but I'm the happiest guy I know, so who cares? I think there are design flaws with your lower, but if you are not worried about it I sure don't care.


Jeez Aimless, you need to shave that damn cat! It's WAY to fluffy! No tacticool kitty has EVER been THAT fluffy.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 2:09:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Todd_:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins


Do a little researhc and you will find lots of pictures of these polymer lowers snapping at pressure points. See above highlights text for a partial answer to your question.


I done a lot of looking because i have been thinking about a polymer lower for a lightweight 22 build for my niece (She is 2 months old needs to be really light) and I can only find two pictures of plum crazy lowers breaking. It just seems that its the same lower shown over and over again and no one can say why it broke. If it was a KB, or a drop, or someone breaking it doing something stupid, or a design flaw. I would like to hear from someone who owns one or owned one that had these massive failure problems not just internet hype
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 5:02:27 AM EST
I look at it the opposite way. Since a lower designed to be made from Aluminum is the proven, battle-tested standard and making it to same dimensions out of polymer is un-proven, I would want to see evidence of hard use testing and success before I would buy one.

How many polymer AR lowers have been through carbine courses and high round counts? Combat (type) training ( IMT in the woods or urban environment, very hard on weapons). I won't say actual combat since that is unrealistic as the military would never use them.

I would expect very few failures from rifles that go to the range once in awhile to shoot a couple hundred rounds no matter they are made of. So, anyone take a 3 day carbine course with one?
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 6:44:29 AM EST
I like my LW-15. It's working fine for it's intended purpose, as a light weight lower on my beater range toy. I eventually planned to use it for a dedicated 22lr build. But after shooting it I think I may buy another LW-15 when I build the 22lr and keep this one on the 5.56 beater. The trigger is really nice and I just enjoy shooting it.

I understand the reservations some people have and would never try to convince them to buy one. Would I recommend buying one for a duty or HD gun? No, it's just not proven enough for that IMO. And, that's not what I bought mine for.

We are lucky to have such a wide variety of choices. People buy things that I would never personally buy myself. But, I don't call them stupid for doing so. It's their money and they should buy what makes them happy.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:04:02 AM EST
WOW! I really wasn't intending to start a religious war. I appreciate all the responses on both sides of the issue. The friend I was going to build for has decided to buy an off-the-rack gun. He and his wife want it just for some plinking and maybe a woodcheck now and then, so a very basic rifle is all they want. Since he wasn't going to build it himself he really didn't care whether it was hand-built or not. The only reason for considering a hand-build was that he thought he could get it for hundreds less than a store gun.

I'm going to pick up one of the "tupperware" lowers, build a CHEAP gun, and beat the crap out of it just for my own education. Stay tuned for drop tests, hot car tests, wheel-chock tests, freezer tests, etc.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:18:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2012 10:19:30 AM EST by RDTCU]
Yeahhh, standard-pattern plastic AR lowers are a GREAT idea....
The first one is Vulcan, the rest are PC lowers.





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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:40:04 AM EST
It's a nice day here. I think I'll go out back and shoot mine some.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:41:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2012 10:42:16 AM EST by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By woodsman556:
It's a nice day here. I think I'll go out back and shoot mine some.


Everything works, until it doesn't anymore, even when it's made from aluminum, but for a couple extra ounces, I'll stick to something with a decent factor of safety.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:47:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2012 10:52:13 AM EST by Jparks29]
The first one I got , cracked.

The replacement they sent me didn't have all the parts, and looked like QC hadn't been performed, as there were multiple burs and excess plastic...

I sold it...

I then found out that a board administrator on the company forums had called me a 'bubba builder', and that was why my lower failed.....

Funny, the upper I was using worked perfectly on another lower, for another 2k+ rounds..... yet my worksmanship was why it failed....

I would not deal with that company.


Oh.. and that last pic that RDTCU posted...was mine... :D

I was told it was a knit line failure, something about two pieces of the polymer coming together but not binding properly....
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 10:52:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2012 10:54:59 AM EST by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By Jparks29:
The first one I got , cracked.

The replacement they sent me didn't have all the parts, and looked like QC hadn't been performed, as there were multiple burs and excess plastic...

I sold it...

I then found out that a board administrator on the company forums had called me a 'bubba builder', and that was why my lower failed.....

Funny, the upper I was using worked perfectly on another lower, for another 2k+ rounds..... yet my worksmanship was why it failed....

I would not deal with that company.



Bubba Gunsmithing is thinking that a cheap polymer will work, 1-for-1, as an aluminum substitute without significant re-design to the part.
If anyone's dead set on a polymer lower for anything but a .22, buy a Cav Arms, at least they did their homework instead of buying and copying Vulcan's old molds.

(ETA: on Jsparks29's lower, the whole story is that the gas key somehow contacted the lower, which shouldn't have happened, but an aluminum lower would have most likely survived.)
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 2:18:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By JC10311:
WOW! I really wasn't intending to start a religious war. I appreciate all the responses on both sides of the issue. The friend I was going to build for has decided to buy an off-the-rack gun. He and his wife want it just for some plinking and maybe a woodcheck now and then, so a very basic rifle is all they want. Since he wasn't going to build it himself he really didn't care whether it was hand-built or not. The only reason for considering a hand-build was that he thought he could get it for hundreds less than a store gun.

I'm going to pick up one of the "tupperware" lowers, build a CHEAP gun, and beat the crap out of it just for my own education. Stay tuned for drop tests, hot car tests, wheel-chock tests, freezer tests, etc.


"WOW! I really wasn't intending to start a religious war." I get that all the time.
The #1 reason they are so pi$$ed off is you are building your first AR cheaper than they did & will most likely out shoot them from the start.
Just go on and build your plastic gun and laugh at them as they bust up some more of there plastic lowers, it's there money.
I'm still laughing as I'm shooting my plastic gun.

Over 2000 rounds through it without a problem.
If you want a good selection of low priced uppers try here.
http://www.jsesurplus.com/custom223.aspx
I own two of there uppers now & will buy more when I get the need.
Just tell them barrels are supposed to be made of steel, but Ooh no some one is making them out of carbon fiber! LOL
http://www.jenseprecision.com/abs-barrels.html
It is time to get out of the stone age, or should I say aluminum age, it won't be long before the whole gun is some form of composite.
Just get used to it now & it won't be so hard to take later on.
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 2:30:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By JC10311:
WOW! I really wasn't intending to start a religious war. I appreciate all the responses on both sides of the issue. The friend I was going to build for has decided to buy an off-the-rack gun. He and his wife want it just for some plinking and maybe a woodcheck now and then, so a very basic rifle is all they want. Since he wasn't going to build it himself he really didn't care whether it was hand-built or not. The only reason for considering a hand-build was that he thought he could get it for hundreds less than a store gun.

I'm going to pick up one of the "tupperware" lowers, build a CHEAP gun, and beat the crap out of it just for my own education. Stay tuned for drop tests, hot car tests, wheel-chock tests, freezer tests, etc.


"WOW! I really wasn't intending to start a religious war." I get that all the time.
The #1 reason they are so pi$$ed off is you are building your first AR cheaper than they did & will most likely out shoot them from the start.
Just go on and build your plastic gun and laugh at them as they bust up some more of there plastic lowers, it's there money.
I'm still laughing as I'm shooting my plastic gun.
http://i52.tinypic.com/91ds06.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/11j3xat.jpg Over 2000 rounds through it without a problem.
If you want a good selection of low priced uppers try here.
http://www.jsesurplus.com/custom223.aspx
I own two of there uppers now & will buy more when I get the need.
Just tell them barrels are supposed to be made of steel, but Ooh no some one is making them out of carbon fiber! LOL
http://www.jenseprecision.com/abs-barrels.html
It is time to get out of the stone age, or should I say aluminum age, it won't be long before the whole gun is some form of composite.
Just get used to it now & it won't be so hard to take later on.


Well said. I enjoy mine and the trigger pull is WAY BETTER than any COLT or BUSHMASTER I shot or issued out with my agency.

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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 2:40:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paintballer:

Just tell them barrels are supposed to be made of steel, but Ooh no some one is making them out of carbon fiber! LOL
http://www.jenseprecision.com/abs-barrels.html
It is time to get out of the stone age, or should I say aluminum age, it won't be long before the whole gun is some form of composite.


You do realize that their ABS barrels use a steel cut-rifled barrel, aka liner, that is capable of withstanding mag rifle pressures on its own without the carbon fiber wrap, right?
The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerszy Lec
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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 6:29:11 PM EST
This will be my fourth AR, but my first using a composite lower. Here's a family photo, with a baby in the works.



The rest of the family looks like:



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Link Posted: 3/7/2012 8:45:55 PM EST
I find it hilariously ironic that the people supporting the polymer lowers do so with the same fanatical, baseless conviction that they claim we have towards the aluminum lowers!

Listen, the burden of proof lies with those who support a product that has no track record. You don just support every new fad until it proves you wrong, especially when it comes to firearms and equipment used to keep people alive. It's the other way around, and until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress), then I will not support them.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 4:58:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 5:12:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.


Congratulations. Now let me grab the barrel and buffer tube and break it in half across my knee...
I like having a bit more safety factor. If I were going to buy a polymer lower, it would be a Cav Arms lower. They actually did their homework and redesigned the weak areas on the lower so that it's less likely to fail when you replace aluminum with polymer.
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 5:31:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.


Congratulations. Now let me grab the barrel and buffer tube and break it in half across my knee...
I like having a bit more safety factor. If I were going to buy a polymer lower, it would be a Cav Arms lower. They actually did their homework and redesigned the weak areas on the lower so that it's less likely to fail when you replace aluminum with polymer.


Ooh is that how you broke yours? You see in the last video that they used the AR for a step, I don't think a knee will do it.
Good luck with a Cav Arms lower, if they did more homework on how to comply with regulations, then maybe the BATFE wouldn't have shut them down.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/09/21/calvary-arms-cav-15-polymer-ar-15-mold-and-ip-for-sale/
You can always buy the molds & start making them your self.
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 5:42:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.


Congratulations. Now let me grab the barrel and buffer tube and break it in half across my knee...
I like having a bit more safety factor. If I were going to buy a polymer lower, it would be a Cav Arms lower. They actually did their homework and redesigned the weak areas on the lower so that it's less likely to fail when you replace aluminum with polymer.


Ooh is that how you broke yours? You see in the last video that they used the AR for a step, I don't think a knee will do it.
Good luck with a Cav Arms lower, if they did more homework on how to comply with regulations, then maybe the BATFE wouldn't have shut them down.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/09/21/calvary-arms-cav-15-polymer-ar-15-mold-and-ip-for-sale/
You can always buy the molds & start making them your self.


Nope, never broken any of my AR's, they're all forged aluminum...
I have played with a PC lower, and was able to flex/twist it visibly with my bare hands.

If you're dead set on using a plastic lower, more power to you. They haven't had the best track record with Vulcan, Bushmaster or PC when you look at the failure rates compared to forged lowers.
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 6:09:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.


Congratulations. Now let me grab the barrel and buffer tube and break it in half across my knee...
I like having a bit more safety factor. If I were going to buy a polymer lower, it would be a Cav Arms lower. They actually did their homework and redesigned the weak areas on the lower so that it's less likely to fail when you replace aluminum with polymer.


Ooh is that how you broke yours? You see in the last video that they used the AR for a step, I don't think a knee will do it.
Good luck with a Cav Arms lower, if they did more homework on how to comply with regulations, then maybe the BATFE wouldn't have shut them down.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/09/21/calvary-arms-cav-15-polymer-ar-15-mold-and-ip-for-sale/
You can always buy the molds & start making them your self.


Nope, never broken any of my AR's, they're all forged aluminum...
I have played with a PC lower, and was able to flex/twist it visibly with my bare hands.

If you're dead set on using a plastic lower, more power to you. They haven't had the best track record with Vulcan, Bushmaster or PC when you look at the failure rates compared to forged lowers.


I have been posting on many forums for quite a few years, every time someone mentions a broken composite lower someone will post the pictures you did in your previous post & not explain how the damage happened????
If it was a defective product as far as I know all of the composite lowers have a "Lifetime warranty against any manufacturer defects when used as directed". By letting them know what went wrong & working with the manufacturer to get the problems fixed will make a better product. Unless the damage was from abuse & any thing will break with enough abuse.
Didn't I say some thing about a fair trial???
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 6:14:06 PM EST
I am not going to say a poly lower is better than a Aluminum. But from a cost standpoint they are a very logical choice for a range toy or hunting rifle.
Someone else tried to say earlier that it was only 54 dollars more for a aluminum lower thats BULLSHIT. You can not touch the price of a New Frontier Poly with that of a aluminum at any price found.

$99 SHIPPED complete from Joe Bobs. + FFL
Cheapest aluminum lower I have ever heard of was 49.95+ shipping+LPK and shipping+stock kit with buffer,spring and tube+ shipping.
There has to be at least a 100 dollar difference in price.

I bought one to try out for my third build. Do I expect more for less no. I believe I can build a decent AR for under $550
Flame on boys I can take it. I just do not know why some get so puckered up over this shit.

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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 7:40:16 PM EST
Now that I have an upper on mine and spent the weekend running rounds through it, I see less and less of an issue. I wouldnt try to talk anyone into buying one but after shooting mine this weekend my buddy is ordering one monday. I shot it side by side with my dsa/double star and all I can say is it is just a diffrent feel. I have no regrets buying one and since I dont use it for a pick axe, I figure I will have it forever. I got the new fronter model. It looks just like the photos I have seen of the plum crazy ones.
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 9:49:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paintballer:
Originally Posted By Todd_:
until I see polymer lowers coming out with the same quality (PROVEN quality, as in torture tests and rigorous testing in the field including carbine classes and whatever else needs to be done to ensure reliability under stress),.

If you don't like my stance, then I welcome you to prove me wrong. I would rather enjoy it, a reliable polymer rifle would be lighter and less expensive to produce.


Here you go;

http://www.youtube.com/v/_qpnmi3XPP8?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/NaFevpTka-I?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

http://www.youtube.com/v/CEAYW_2y4VU?version=3&hl=en_US&wmode=transparent

And to add I have personally put over 2000rds through my PC lower without the first problem.
I find it hilariously ironic that some put down a new product before giving it a fair trial.


Your "Battle tested" proof is three "torture tests" performs by, SURPRISE, the biased product manufacturers?

What is ironic about not instantly giving my approval and recommendation about a new product before having it subjected to the same rigorous testing standards that current lowers have been through?

Show me a study done over 10, or 100 carbine course. All I want is a good number of polymer lowers in those courses. Then show me DATA about failure rates, and where they were, and compare them to failure rates of the aluminum lowers. They have a torture test of a DD rifle where they drop it from A HELICOPTER, as well as placing it within a few feet of a MASSIVE EXPLOSION. You expect me to be convinced that these polymer lowers are reliable and battle tested because two guys played catch with it and then jumped on it from the bed of a truck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WCBcV2Nb2Wo

I'm still waiting to be convinced. I am not saying this wouldnt be ok for a plinking only rifle, never to be used for aiming at beer cans in the back yard, but even then I refer back to one of my original statements:

"Surplus Arms and Ammo stripped lower: $59.95
STAG LPK: $49.95
6 position collapsable stock with mil-spec tube, buffer, spring, end plate, castle nut: $44.95

Complete cost for complete lower? $154.85
Having a quality lower you can trust? Priceless.

Or you can save $54 bucks and have something that hasn't been proven yet and not know what you're getting.... but quite honestly, in my opinion, if $54 is enough to break your bank account then you need not get an AR.... you wont be able to afford to shoot it anyways."
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 4:51:03 AM EST
Wow. I'll just add that mine works 100% and until it doesn't it works great for plinking. I haven't exactly been nice to it. 2000+ rounds and counting,...It's usually between this and the A2, but I shoot this more often because I want to know the approximate round count when it breaks. I may have to run it through a carbine course and see how it stacks up to the conventional rifles I have.
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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:37:42 AM EST
i dont own a poly lower, but thinking about one, the guys up here that work at ELEMENT ARMS a solid tactical store dealing mainly in ar
s highly recommend them! i was just in there loking for a new lower, they have tons of them in all different brands! and the guy there insisted he absolutely loves his plum crazy one, infact he usually grabs that one first. now why i gun shop employee would say that..idk, i was looking at spending a whole lot more on one. I left to go home and ponder what he was saying some more before buying this next one........hmmmmmmmm
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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 8:12:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gregg913:
i dont own a poly lower, but thinking about one, the guys up here that work at ELEMENT ARMS a solid tactical store dealing mainly in ar
s highly recommend them! i was just in there loking for a new lower, they have tons of them in all different brands! and the guy there insisted he absolutely loves his plum crazy one, infact he usually grabs that one first. now why i gun shop employee would say that..idk, i was looking at spending a whole lot more on one. I left to go home and ponder what he was saying some more before buying this next one........hmmmmmmmm


What were they charging? Maybe they were trying to get away with a bigger markup...
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Link Posted: 3/18/2012 6:07:45 PM EST
I got a Plum Crazy lower (complete) as part of a trade. I bought the rifle it was part of because I wanted the upper for another project. The PC lower seems to be ok and I was thinking of keeping it for a dedicated .22 build. Has anyone done this? Any Pictures?
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