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JC10311
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Posted: 3/1/2012 6:11:56 PM
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?
The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
Karl Marx [Sound like anyone you know???]
turb06le240
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Posted: 3/1/2012 6:42:31 PM
You can build a forged lower for almost the same price, I dont like the plastic ones.. Not because they wont work, but I am hard on the guns sometimes, toss them in the truck, drop them when the phone rings, ect.... Plastic may not be the best option..
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Posted: 3/1/2012 6:42:49 PM
I would look here for the lower

And here for the upper

My 2 cents

AL
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Posted: 3/1/2012 6:50:37 PM
I don't have a plum crazy lower but I have friends who do and they have never had a problem with them. I wouldn't suggest using one as a club but for shooting they seem to be good. If you are looking for the least expensive lower check out the new frontier armory lowers. Joe bob outfitters has them for 99.99.

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/
Schroedum
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Posted: 3/1/2012 6:57:18 PM
If you buy a LW-15 you might upgrade the internals, they are all poly just like the receiver. But with that, its a GREAT deal.
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Posted: 3/1/2012 7:19:54 PM
Joe Bobs has the NFA lowers for 99 bucks with free shipping.

I have one and the trigger is pretty damn good. Look in the Industry section for a short range report.

AL
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Posted: 3/6/2012 2:03:04 PM
I would go with the Polymer lower for your budget build. I have the LW-15 Lower and it is awesome. I was very skeptical about buying mine, but for the price I couldn't resist.

Now for the guy that said he is too hard on his guns to have a plastic lower. It is not plactic, it is polymer, and is everybit as strong as a metal lower. Infact, if you drop a your gun and lets say your lower reciever hits a rock. A metal one can dent, maybe not much but enough to where a magizine will have a hard time seating, and ejecting properly. Polymer has the ability to go back to its original form.
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Posted: 3/6/2012 2:39:20 PM
By all means go with the polymer lower, if you do break it, its guaranteed for life so no loss. I have the LW and it fits my 604, A3, A2 and Blackout uppers better than my Spikes Lower and the trigger actually feels better than those you get in all but the most expensive LPK's.
"We got our sights set straight ahead but I ain't sure what we're after " Molly H
Barman84
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Posted: 3/6/2012 5:42:06 PM
I am building two guns now with LW lowers same as the plum crazy. I got two complete working lowers for 217 out the door... I swapped out the FCG with metatl internals all the way from the trigger up and they fit fine and work fine as I am using a .22lr upper on one and the polymer hammer won't work with a .22 bolt unless you shave it down on both sides.

Like everyone else said lifetime warranty and cheap. I don't care who you are unless you get second hand everything you can't put a complete lower together for the same price unless its used period. a cheap aluminum stripped lower reciever is still 49.99 plus shipping +10+FFL transfer fee 10-50 so theres 70. A trigger kit is 25-35 a buffer tube and buffer with sprinig is another 20-30 and then you still have to buy the stock. A cheapy is 10-35 so looking at the cheap numbers. Its what 125+. Did I change the trigger on mine yes but for other reasons then it doesn't work. They function fine for a 5.56 bolt... And it cost me nothing has I had all the parts from two guns I already have custom triggers in. Gotta love left over parts from a past build!
Aimless
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Posted: 3/6/2012 5:58:29 PM

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins
John Willis OSOE http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/929579_John_Willis__OSOE.html
Evilriflefan
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Posted: 3/6/2012 11:00:28 PM
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?
Schroedum
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Posted: 3/6/2012 11:34:41 PM
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.
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Posted: 3/6/2012 11:55:45 PM
How much are you saving using a polymer lower vs. forged aluminum?
Rio_Grande
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Posted: 3/7/2012 1:10:17 AM
I have the Frontier Arms lower and it fits a dsa upper tighter than my aluminum lower of another reputable manufacture! I cant say they are as tough, but for 99.00 complete, I am happy with mine. Worst case I will pull the butstock off and put it on the next lower.
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:09:13 AM
Originally Posted By Schroedum:

Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.


When will the people that are for the polymer lowers accept that polymer made pistols and polymer AR lowers are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!

Polymer pistols were designed from the ground up to be made form polymer. Because of this, the polymer is strengthened in areas it needed it because that was part of the original design

Polymer lower receivers are molded to the same dimensions that were DESIGNED for aluminum! There are going to be different stress points and tolerances between the two...

polymer pistols vs polymer lowers = apples vs oranges.

Why risk it when you can get high quality stripped lowers for $59 from aimsurplus.com?

Buying a polymer lower is your decision.... but going to other threads and advising people on them, calling them great after "Three WHOLE trips to the range without a failure!!!" is not a good idea. Give one to a guy who actually works with his rifle. I'll stick with the stuff that has been PROVEN to work, the same stuff the men and women operating in combat venues overseas use, because I'm not one to be a guinea pig. If some day my life depends on my rifle, I want to KNOW it will work. If you are just looking for a range toy that you will never have to stake anything on its operation, then buy cheap. Otherwise, buy what is proven.
Aimless
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:13:58 AM

Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?

Do I have any what? You want me to dig out the reports of these lowers breaking? How about people involved in the design of lowers that say the same thing I just posted? is this the old Oly arms defense "these are great I do not believe the reports of problems because I like them"? There are guys who have made lowers out of wood, brass and plastic cutting boards, does that mean you should do it?
John Willis OSOE http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/929579_John_Willis__OSOE.html
Todd_
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:18:17 AM
Surplus Arms and Ammo stripped lower: $59.95
STAG LPK: $49.95
6 position collapsable stock with mil-spec tube, buffer, spring, end plate, castle nut: $44.95

Complete cost for complete lower? $154.85
Having a quality lower you can trust? Priceless.

Or you can save $54 bucks and have something that hasn't been proven yet and not know what you're getting.... but quite honestly, in my opinion, if $54 is enough to break your bank account then you need not get an AR.... you wont be able to afford to shoot it anyways.
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:18:31 AM
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Junk is still junk!
tumbleweed
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:31:21 AM

Originally Posted By Schroedum:
Originally Posted By Evilriflefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins




And ... With due respect to you, so what ? I've replied four times to nay sayers in these type threads and still haven't seen any narrative as to how any breakage occurs in those areas. Do you have any ?


Your right, I have 5 of the LW15 lowers and I can say, If you have a problem with these lowers you must have a problem with Glocks/XDs and M&Ps as well. They arnt weak, and they fit amazingly well.

Poor choice for a comparison.

Locking blocks for the XD-45 and the M&P are held by the disassembly pin, trigger pin, another pin, and by frame molding.

Locking block for the Glock is held by trigger pin and frame molding.

Most of the forces seen by the locking blocks are transmitted the frames, not the pins. Other pinned parts don't see much force sent to the pins themselves.

AR trigger pins usually don't see much force (they can with a lot of trigger slap) but the hammer pin does. The forces are transmitted directly to the pins and holes that are securing them. That can be a problem, though how much of a problem I wouldn't know for sure since I don't own a polymer AR lower.

I do own a Glock and one day after leaving a gun show I yanked off the skinny tie wrap looped through the mag well and ejection port (yeah the gun show person really did that). The tie wrap popped as expected but left a nice gouge on the bottom of the mag well. Tell me a metal frame would've done the same. I used a bic lighter to melt and reshape that gouge so it appeared normal again.
The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerszy Lec
Aimless
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:41:07 AM
[Last Edit: 3/7/2012 2:42:43 AM by Aimless]
I'm all for the use of plastics but, yeah, the comparison to pistols doesn't add much to the conversation.

I don't have any stock in any aluminum mines so buy whatever makes you happy
John Willis OSOE http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/929579_John_Willis__OSOE.html
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:11:48 AM
I am probably gonna make an enemy or two asking this however that is not my intent.

I am not sold one way or another, but everywhere I read people come out to bash the polymer lowers. I just ask one question. Where are the failures? I read alot of negativity before I bought mine but I saw very few I owned one and it was crap because........ posts. Not saying they are not junk,,,, not saying they are junk,,,, but who has had one fail on them and how/what failed?

Ok, I will put my nose back in the corner......
Todd_
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:15:29 AM
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins


Do a little researhc and you will find lots of pictures of these polymer lowers snapping at pressure points. See above highlights text for a partial answer to your question.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Todd_
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:17:37 AM
Originally Posted By tumbleweed:
I do own a Glock and one day after leaving a gun show I yanked off the skinny tie wrap looped through the mag well and ejection port (yeah the gun show person really did that). The tie wrap popped as expected but left a nice gouge on the bottom of the mag well. Tell me a metal frame would've done the same. I used a bic lighter to melt and reshape that gouge so it appeared normal again.


Maybe thats why these guys like the polymer lowers.... if they scratch their lower they want to be able to melt it back to normal!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Aimless
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:27:55 AM

Originally Posted By Rio_Grande:
I am probably gonna make an enemy or two asking this however that is not my intent.

I am not sold one way or another, but everywhere I read people come out to bash the polymer lowers. I just ask one question. Where are the failures? I read alot of negativity before I bought mine but I saw very few I owned one and it was crap because........ posts. Not saying they are not junk,,,, not saying they are junk,,,, but who has had one fail on them and how/what failed?

Ok, I will put my nose back in the corner......

There have been plenty of pictures and posts about plum crazy lowers breaking. I would not lump all polymer lowers together. While not perfect cavarms had a pretty good track record after awhile.

I don't know why you would make enemies. If you are pleased with yours, then all the better. It would not make me happy to hear that your rifle broke.

I've said this before, people get too emotionally involved in firearms discussions, or all discussions on the Internet. I'm sure if I posted pictures of everything I did for a day I would have a thousand guys who live in their mom's basement posting that my car is too old, my house too small, my wife too short and my cat too fuzzy, but I'm the happiest guy I know, so who cares? I think there are design flaws with your lower, but if you are not worried about it I sure don't care.
John Willis OSOE http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_109/929579_John_Willis__OSOE.html
Todd_
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Posted: 3/7/2012 3:34:55 AM
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Rio_Grande:
I am probably gonna make an enemy or two asking this however that is not my intent.

I am not sold one way or another, but everywhere I read people come out to bash the polymer lowers. I just ask one question. Where are the failures? I read alot of negativity before I bought mine but I saw very few I owned one and it was crap because........ posts. Not saying they are not junk,,,, not saying they are junk,,,, but who has had one fail on them and how/what failed?

Ok, I will put my nose back in the corner......

There have been plenty of pictures and posts about plum crazy lowers breaking. I would not lump all polymer lowers together. While not perfect cavarms had a pretty good track record after awhile.

I don't know why you would make enemies. If you are pleased with yours, then all the better. It would not make me happy to hear that your rifle broke.

I've said this before, people get too emotionally involved in firearms discussions, or all discussions on the Internet. I'm sure if I posted pictures of everything I did for a day I would have a thousand guys who live in their mom's basement posting that my car is too old, my house too small, my wife too short and my cat too fuzzy, but I'm the happiest guy I know, so who cares? I think there are design flaws with your lower, but if you are not worried about it I sure don't care.


Jeez Aimless, you need to shave that damn cat! It's WAY to fluffy! No tacticool kitty has EVER been THAT fluffy.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

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Bucksaw
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Posted: 3/7/2012 7:09:04 AM
Originally Posted By Todd_:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By JC10311:
A friend has asked me to help him build an absolutely rock bottom cost AR (that's not a piece of trash). He and his SO just like to plink and don't want "some fancy gun." I was looking at the Plum Crazy complete lower as a strating point, but I have only seen one once, and never fired one.

Anyone have real experience with them?

Personally I'd pass on plum crazy and that other one that uses the same mold, there are weak points around the receiver extension and push pins


Do a little researhc and you will find lots of pictures of these polymer lowers snapping at pressure points. See above highlights text for a partial answer to your question.


I done a lot of looking because i have been thinking about a polymer lower for a lightweight 22 build for my niece (She is 2 months old needs to be really light) and I can only find two pictures of plum crazy lowers breaking. It just seems that its the same lower shown over and over again and no one can say why it broke. If it was a KB, or a drop, or someone breaking it doing something stupid, or a design flaw. I would like to hear from someone who owns one or owned one that had these massive failure problems not just internet hype
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