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Posted: 1/15/2012 7:14:30 AM EDT
[#1]
You don't need to do anything, as far as federal law is concerned.
The ATF does recommend it, but it is not law. If you want a serial number, you could make up a number. I would use some thing like 0001. I seriously doubt that I will manufacture more than a thousand firearms in my life. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 7:38:12 AM EDT
[#2]
You may put anything or you may put nothing on your homemade gun.
And if you do decide to mark it that marking can be anything, done with any technique, anywhere on the receiver. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 7:42:45 AM EDT
[#3]
The only time federal law requires you to mark a homebuilt firearm is if you decide to register it as a Title II firearm. So, if you were to send in a Form 1 registering your 80% lower as an SBR, then you'd need to make up a serial number and have it, along with your name, city, and state, engraved. Otherwise, you can leave it blank. Personally, I'd at least mark it under the pistol grip just in case it did end up stolen.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 9:54:56 AM EDT
[#4]
It will need a serial number if it you ever sell it.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 10:04:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
It will need a serial number if it you ever sell it. Not true. Unless perhaps there is some weird law in the state in which the transfer occurs. ATF does not require serial numbers, but it is a good idea for traceability and identification in the event the weapon is stolen. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will need a serial number if it you ever sell it. Not true. Unless perhaps there is some weird law in the state in which the transfer occurs. ATF does not require serial numbers, but it is a good idea for traceability and identification in the event the weapon is stolen. If that is true, why did the gov't start requiring all firearms to have serial numbers after 1964? |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:24:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will need a serial number if it you ever sell it. Not true. Unless perhaps there is some weird law in the state in which the transfer occurs. ATF does not require serial numbers, but it is a good idea for traceability and identification in the event the weapon is stolen. If that is true, why did the gov't start requiring all firearms to have serial numbers after 1964? 1968. And only firearms manufactured for commercial sales are required to be marked. The ATF has two classifications for people that build guns, manufacturer and maker. Manufacturers are licensed and build guns for a profit. Makers are not licensed and can only build guns for personal use. Manufacturers are required to mark their guns. Makers are not. Makers are allowed to sell guns they made, so long as they did not build it with the intent to sell. So, you could build up an 80% lower right now and then tomorrow decide that you don't want it any more and sell it. You don't need to put any markings on it at all, unless your state requires them. Of course, you may very well also have to convince the ATF and the courts that you didn't build that AR with the intent to sell., which is going to be hard to do if you sold it the day after you built it. This only applies to Title I firearms, all Title II firearms are required to be marked, regardless of whether you are a manufacturer or maker. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:56:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: All firearms that are made and sold after 1964 are required to have a serial number regardless of origin. If you make it and keep it it doesn't need any markings.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It will need a serial number if it you ever sell it. Not true. Unless perhaps there is some weird law in the state in which the transfer occurs. ATF does not require serial numbers, but it is a good idea for traceability and identification in the event the weapon is stolen. If that is true, why did the gov't start requiring all firearms to have serial numbers after 1964? 1968. And only firearms manufactured for commercial sales are required to be marked. The ATF has two classifications for people that build guns, manufacturer and maker. Manufacturers are licensed and build guns for a profit. Makers are not licensed and can only build guns for personal use. Manufacturers are required to mark their guns. Makers are not. Makers are allowed to sell guns they made, so long as they did not build it with the intent to sell. So, you could build up an 80% lower right now and then tomorrow decide that you don't want it any more and sell it. You don't need to put any markings on it at all, unless your state requires them. Of course, you may very well also have to convince the ATF and the courts that you didn't build that AR with the intent to sell., which is going to be hard to do if you sold it the day after you built it. This only applies to Title I firearms, all Title II firearms are required to be marked, regardless of whether you are a manufacturer or maker. This according to an ATF letter I have saved somewhere. I'll post it if I can find it. Of course the letter could be wrong, we all know that happens a lot. Or I could be remembering wrong, that's been known to happen too. ( I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  ) |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 2:33:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
All firearms that are made and sold after 1964 are required to have a serial number regardless of origin. If you make it and keep it it doesn't need any markings. This according to an ATF letter I have saved somewhere. I'll post it if I can find it. Of course the letter could be wrong, we all know that happens a lot. Or I could be remembering wrong, that's been known to happen too. ( I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.  )
First, it was 1968, the Gun Control Act of that year required Manufacturers and Importers to place serial #'s on firearms. There is no language in there, at all, that states a maker must place a serial # on their firearms, even if they sell it. I know that ATF opinion is that they recommend placing a serial # on the firearm. But I've never seen any opinion letter or law that states it's required. Of course, I could be wrong also. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 4:33:44 PM EDT
[#10]
For purposes of "pride of authorship" if nothing else, I would engrave something interspestingly profound (and probably profoundly rude), along with my name and a serial number (implying this might be one of many).
MOLON LABE Gonzalez, Texas ML00001 Necessary? No, not by my reading and understanding of the law and the implementing regulations. But if you're doing all the rest of the work, why not add this stuff too? Further, when yon hick constable suggests that your formerly 80% lower-based rifle might be somehow contraband, it does you no good to inform him that you're well within the law; you'll still be in his jail until your lawyer explains it to a judge the constable listens to and there is no telling what bad things might happen to the gun you spent so much time working on in the meantime. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 4:46:07 PM EDT
[#11]
i choose to engrave and serialize my lowers simply because a bare reciever might look fishy to roscoe p coltrane.
when sheriff justice says "boy you done filed all the numbers off that gun" and i'm standing there trying to explain its a 80%er, he's not gonna be interested. looking like a std rifle might help avoid the hassle. plus you can make it say what you like. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:11:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: All firearms that are made and sold after 1964 are required to have a serial number regardless of origin. If you make it and keep it it doesn't need any markings. This according to an ATF letter I have saved somewhere. I'll post it if I can find it. Of course the letter could be wrong, we all know that happens a lot. Or I could be remembering wrong, that's been known to happen too. ( I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. )First, it was 1968, the Gun Control Act of that year required Manufacturers and Importers to place serial #'s on firearms. There is no language in there, at all, that states a maker must place a serial # on their firearms, even if they sell it. I know that ATF opinion is that they recommend placing a serial # on the firearm. But I've never seen any opinion letter or law that states it's required. Of course, I could be wrong also. your right it is 68. Just proves my last point. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:25:34 PM EDT
[#13]
so let me get his straight; if someone finishes up a 80% receiver to 100%, they can sell that receiver with it not having any serial number or manufactures info on it?
that doesnt seem correct??? |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:38:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
so let me get his straight; if someone finishes up a 80% receiver to 100%, they can sell that receiver with it not having any serial number or manufactures info on it? that doesnt seem correct??? As long as it was not made with the intent to sell. Proving you had no intention to sell it when you built is kind of a legal grey area. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:55:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Just to throw a little oil on the fire, commercially made and sold firearms were not required to be serialized until 1968. There are lots and lots of pre-68 completely legal commercially manufactured guns that have no serial number.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:55:28 PM EDT
[#16]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing
It appears they do not think you should sell it. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 5:58:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing It appears they do not think you should sell it. They didn't say you can't sell it, you just can't make it to sell. Like I've stated numerous times, it cannot be made with the intent to sell. |
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Posted: 1/15/2012 6:06:18 PM EDT
[#18]
It says specifically:
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. The gray area is that this statement can be read in different ways, but the most straightforward way is "provided it is not made for sale". Similar to assembling ARs from parts and eventually selling them as you find a new project you need to finance, it would be a good idea to NOT finish a lower receiver and sell it shortly after that. Looks pretty fishy to make a firearm for personal use and then quickly turn around and sell it off, right? And again, if you go to all the trouble of milling an 80% forging until it is a working AR lower receiver, why would you then sell it off soon after finishing?
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Posted: 1/15/2012 6:08:27 PM EDT
[#19]
You should also check state laws on any requirements for marking firearms or transfering unmarked firearms also.
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Posted: 1/19/2012 6:48:52 AM EDT
[#20]
My interp of the ATF rule is that it is recommended to mark the lower, you can get the law from there site. You can sell 1 per year but it has to have your Name, Model #, City and State & Caliber on it. So unless you intend to get rid of one you don't need anything on it. If you Mark it yes it will reduce the hassles from the Barney Fith out there as long as you build it to your current State laws. Don't break the law you don't have too much to worry about Except for Anti Gun Idiots!
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Posted: 1/19/2012 4:02:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
My interp of the ATF rule is that it is recommended to mark the lower, you can get the law from there site. You can sell 1 per year but it has to have your Name, Model #, City and State & Caliber on it. So unless you intend to get rid of one you don't need anything on it. If you Mark it yes it will reduce the hassles from the Barney Fith out there as long as you build it to your current State laws. Don't break the law you don't have too much to worry about Except for Anti Gun Idiots! Someone is going to say this rather rudely if I don't beat them to it with a bit of courtesy: I've seen the "one a year" and marking instructions such as you mentioned, but nobody has ever shown a reference in statute or BATFE regulations supporting either. Can you provide such a reference? |
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:44:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
so let me get his straight; if someone finishes up a 80% receiver to 100%, they can sell that receiver with it not having any serial number or manufactures info on it? that doesnt seem correct??? As long as it was not made with the intent to sell. Proving you had no intention to sell it when you built is kind of a legal grey area. +1. I serialize my 80%ers by inconspicuously stamping the lower under the pistol grip. |
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Posted: 1/19/2012 5:51:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My interp of the ATF rule is that it is recommended to mark the lower, you can get the law from there site. You can sell 1 per year but it has to have your Name, Model #, City and State & Caliber on it. So unless you intend to get rid of one you don't need anything on it. If you Mark it yes it will reduce the hassles from the Barney Fith out there as long as you build it to your current State laws. Don't break the law you don't have too much to worry about Except for Anti Gun Idiots! Someone is going to say this rather rudely if I don't beat them to it with a bit of courtesy: I've seen the "one a year" and marking instructions such as you mentioned, but nobody has ever shown a reference in statute or BATFE regulations supporting either. Can you provide such a reference? There is no such reference. The only rule is that the gun cannot be made with the intent to sell. |
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Posted: 1/19/2012 7:46:28 PM EDT
[#24]
There is no such reference. The only rule is that the gun cannot be made with the intent to sell. Do I have to mark it if I dont plan to sell it???? 
Sorry, I couldnt resist. |
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