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Posted: 8/28/2009 10:19:57 AM EDT
I just finished a little trick I read about a while back in a thread here( can't remember when or where) You buy a 1/2" long 1/4 28 set screw( the kind with an allen head and no shoulder), remove the grip, and screw it in where the grip screw goes. Cock the hammer(obviously with the upper broken open so you can watch, and unloaded) and turn the screw in until the hammer trips. Then back it up until you can operate the safty selecter. You should be at least one turn back from tripping the hammer. Now either shorten your grip screw, or add a couple washers, or replace it with a shorter one, and reinstall the grip. You will find that almost all creep has been eliminated from your trigger. Now " bump test" your rifle. Drop it on the butt onto a padded surface from 8-10 inches. (collapse your stock first if you have that type) If you pass, you're good to go. If not, back off the set screw until you pass. I did this after mirror polishing the sear surfaces and trigger surfaces(but not the part contacting the lower) of the pins with a dremel, and adding the JP springs. Now I have a no creep, no grit, clean breaking, light, slick trigger. I honestly don't know how it could be any better. For those of you that like to tinker, this is a really great, low-buck project. Should already be running a good grease on the fire control group, and although my ARmalite was tapped all the way through, My buddies Tactical machine lowers had to be tapped the final few threads into the lower(chased really), which required dissasmbly. It works by jacking the rear of the trigger lever up, essentialy begining to pull the trigger for you, shortening the sear length you have to pull with your finger. The felt result is a shorter pull, with no creep. Can't wait to get to the range, I've got a hundred dry fires and it feels great!
Flame away! 
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Posted: 8/28/2009 10:59:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I just finished a little trick I read about a while back in a thread here( can't remember when or where) You buy a 1/2" long 1/4 28 set screw( the kind with an allen head and no shoulder), remove the grip, and screw it in where the grip screw goes. Cock the hammer(obviously with the upper broken open so you can watch, and unloaded) and turn the screw in until the hammer trips. Then back it up until you can operate the safty selecter. You should be at least one turn back from tripping the hammer. Now either shorten your grip screw, or add a couple washers, or replace it with a shorter one, and reinstall the grip. You will find that almost all creep has been eliminated from your trigger. Now " bump test" your rifle. Drop it on the butt onto a padded surface from 8-10 inches. (collapse your stock first if you have that type) If you pass, you're good to go. If not, back off the set screw until you pass. I did this after mirror polishing the sear surfaces and trigger surfaces(but not the part contacting the lower) of the pins with a dremel, and adding the JP springs. Now I have a no creep, no grit, clean breaking, light, slick trigger. I honestly don't know how it could be any better. For those of you that like to tinker, this is a really great, low-buck project. Should already be running a good grease on the fire control group, and although my ARmalite was tapped all the way through, My buddies Tactical machine lowers had to be tapped the final few threads into the lower(chased really), which required dissasmbly. It works by jacking the rear of the trigger lever up, essentialy begining to pull the trigger for you, shortening the sear length you have to pull with your finger. The felt result is a shorter pull, with no creep. Can't wait to get to the range, I've got a hundred dry fires and it feels great! Flame away! Or you can just drill that end of the hole out with a slightly bigger drill bit if you don't have a tap in the right size. I did this on a DPMS lower when installing a Jard trigger which uses the same type of set-screw. |
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Posted: 8/28/2009 11:26:26 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/28/2009 11:49:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I did this after mirror polishing the sear surfaces and trigger surfaces(but not the part contacting the lower) of the pins with a dremel Flame away! Let us know when the trigger goes tits up. 
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Posted: 8/28/2009 1:15:18 PM EDT
[#4]
about those jp springs,, i put some in a 6.8 and it wouldnt pop the primer hard enough on my ssa ammo so i had to go back to original hammer spring but left the trigger spring in,, good luck
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Posted: 8/28/2009 1:15:18 PM EDT
[#5]
whoops
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Posted: 8/28/2009 1:32:37 PM EDT
[#6]
I've had the springs for a couple hundred rounds, no problems with a variety of commercial 5.56 & .223 ammo. The polish job too, I just added the creep control as the final piece of the trigger job. My buddies 6.8 had the same problem as you with the springs on Silver State Ammo. He called JP and they sent him the Red tactical hammer spring to replace the yellow for free. Good people, great customer service. They say right on their websight that the yellow springs won't work for everyone and are only recommended for bench and plinking. They sell the set with the Red spring for tactical/defense use. My friends Tactical Bambi Assult Rifle tested good withthe red spring but hasn't been out for an extended range session. Also, I forgot to mention that we bobbed the hammer spurs to reduce the mass and lock time. I don't see any reason for failure, the trigger is operating on it's original geometry and surfaces, I'm just lightening the stress loading on the sear and reducing the length of pull. It would still cross the same thresholds if pulled from it's original configuration. If anything, it should last longer than normal because of the reduced spring tension. Pleases explain how I'm wrong.
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Posted: 8/28/2009 4:29:48 PM EDT
[#7]
I've mentioned performing this procedure in several previous threads. It's worked well for me, the Allen set screw is not a must on all triggers. Occasionally you run into a combo that has very little creep, this will help those that don't turn out so well. I've apparently also been one of the fortunate ones, I've had zero ignition problems using the JP springs. I have them in a number of rifles and have installed them in dozens of builds, people are not telling me about problems using them. I love em'.
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Posted: 8/28/2009 6:41:24 PM EDT
[#8]
AR-15/M16 DROP-IN TRIGGER ADJUSTER
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Posted: 8/28/2009 9:18:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I honestly don't know how it could be any better.  Try a Jard single stage adj. trigger with about 2# pull, you won't go back!
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Posted: 8/29/2009 5:55:44 AM EDT
[#10]
So can I get the Jard for the $10 & change that I have in my trigger job?
 Really, It's #3.5, maybe 4lb, I'm guessing because I don't have a guage handy, but so short and clean I really don't see how it could be better. I've got a few other rifles laying around that have some decent triggers, and this one is as good as any. No way for me to prove it to you, you'd just have to try it. Plus I get a lot of satifaction from the DIY aspect of it. Gearhead, I think I probably picked it up from one of your earlier threads about it. I know I read it somewhere....
As for that fancy brownells adjuster,well.......$44 vs my friend bought a bag of 100 1/2" 1/4 28 set screws for $11, and you only have to adjust the trigger one time with the grip off using the "cheapo" method.... You decide 
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Posted: 8/29/2009 8:26:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I was under the impression that the grip screw in the above kit was hollow and that the adjustment came from the bottom of the receiver. I read about this kit a couple of years back. It's what gave me the confidence to try the Allen set screw on top of the grip screw. I've also found that often the original grip screw will work when using the Allen screw on top of it. Depending upon which grip is used some end up being too long. I keep several different Allen screws on hand in 1/4" increments. I'm also one of those malcontents that actually likes an Allen head grip screw. These are .15 to .25 a piece at the hardware store depending upon length needed. When using a set screw to limit the trigger creep Loctite is a must. If you're looking for technical instructions on how to adjust this set up go to JP's trigger site. Though their adjustable trigger is a completely different design (I've got a couple of these also) the concept is the same. You can print and follow these instructions to use with the Allen set screw.AR-15/M16 DROP-IN TRIGGER ADJUSTER
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Posted: 8/29/2009 9:05:43 AM EDT
[#12]
+1, My reading of the ad for that set screw was that you can adjust the creep through the grip, once it's installed. Nice, but not $44 nice, at least not for me., I'd probably give'em $5 for it htough
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Posted: 8/29/2009 11:05:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Did the set screw mod night before last... http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=457878Quoted: I was under the impression that the grip screw in the above kit was hollow and that the adjustment came from the bottom of the receiver. I read about this kit a couple of years back. It's what gave me the confidence to try the Allen set screw on top of the grip screw. I've also found that often the original grip screw will work when using the Allen screw on top of it. Depending upon which grip is used some end up being too long. I keep several different Allen screws on hand in 1/4" increments. I'm also one of those malcontents that actually likes an Allen head grip screw. These are .15 to .25 a piece at the hardware store depending upon length needed. When using a set screw to limit the trigger creep Loctite is a must. If you're looking for technical instructions on how to adjust this set up go to JP's trigger site. Though their adjustable trigger is a completely different design (I've got a couple of these also) the concept is the same. You can print and follow these instructions to use with the Allen set screw.AR-15/M16 DROP-IN TRIGGER ADJUSTER
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Posted: 8/29/2009 2:40:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Some lowers are all ready to do this for you
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Posted: 8/29/2009 2:49:32 PM EDT
[#15]
I've seen several that have this feature but I've wondered how that hole works with a Magpul trigger guard? The Magpul's seem to take up a little more space in that area. |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 3:13:36 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/29/2009 3:52:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Subscribed for the next time I have my rifle down to parade rest for mods. I've already polished the trigger, made an unbelievable difference, taking out some slack should be the icing on the cake.
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Posted: 8/29/2009 6:21:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Those lowers look nice, but no one posted a price with 'em, so I'm gonna take a wildassguess and say I can't get one for $89
I'm all about DIY for cheap, as long as it works, and this does. Besides, both of those look like you have to have the grip off to make the adjustment, so whats the advantage of paying for an extra hole in your lower?
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Posted: 8/29/2009 7:41:56 PM EDT
[#19]
After adding that screw to modify your trigger pray your rifle never fires more than one round even as an accident. The BATFE will use that screw to say you modified your trigger to create a machine gun.
It's 10 years of your life however. |
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Posted: 8/29/2009 10:41:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I've seen several that have this feature but I've wondered how that hole works with a Magpul trigger guard? The Magpul's seem to take up a little more space in that area. You are correct. If you're using a gapper or any trigger guard that fills in that space you have to set it before installing the trigger guard. It is just a set once, loctite it and forget it. But with most any pistol grips and any non gap filling trigger guard, the allen wrench passes between them and can be accessed after assembly. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 6:09:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Or any other after market adjustable trigger/modification for that matter. Not a naysayer here, just saying they can get you for just about they want should something go wrong. I for one like the mod.After adding that screw to modify your trigger pray your rifle never fires more than one round even as an accident. The BATFE will use that screw to say you modified your trigger to create a machine gun. It's 10 years of your life however. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 6:51:27 AM EDT
[#22]
OOOOOH
 ! I'M QUIVERIN' IN MY BOOTS! Actually, I don't think any ATF agents are members at my club, and if my rifle were to double, at my club, it would be considered a malfunction. I would immediately clear the rifle, case it and retire it to the shop for repairs.(we even have a rule to that effect) I will be very suprised if that happens. Since I have confidence in my skills, and I don't see an agent behind every bush, I will continue to modify my rifles to make them more accurate and fun to shoot. Thanks to all you naysayers though for your insightful and relevent sharing of your experience though.
Isn't this the build it yourself thread? |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 8:46:44 AM EDT
[#23]
This set screw mod is hardly any different than Bill S. mod of tacking a spot of weld at the tail to adjust for creep. Plus if you attempt to screw the screw too deep your safety won't function. Oh and don't think someone else doesn't polish the surfaces either for his $35/$45 fee, if your fearing that the parts are barely surfaced hardened and a little polish is going to ruin them.
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Posted: 8/30/2009 2:34:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
OOOOOH ! I'M QUIVERIN' IN MY BOOTS! Actually, I don't think any ATF agents are members at my club, and if my rifle were to double, at my club, it would be considered a malfunction. I would immediately clear the rifle, case it and retire it to the shop for repairs.(we even have a rule to that effect) I will be very suprised if that happens. Since I have confidence in my skills, and I don't see an agent behind every bush, I will continue to modify my rifles to make them more accurate and fun to shoot. Thanks to all you naysayers though for your insightful and relevent sharing of your experience though.
Isn't this the build it yourself thread? I'm not naysaying anything and you can be a smart ass until the cows come home with your smug crap. I could care less what YOU do. I'm simply saying that David Olofson would have said the same thing once. If you aren't familiar with that case you should be. It's a sub standard part added to modify the fire control group of an AR-15. I don't care who does it, they should just be aware that there is potential that should ANY law enforcement agency get their hooks into them for any reason, there is a good chance the ATF would make a case of attempting to modify as they have done WITHOUT evidence to NUMEROUS people. Were they to do that a gun hating libtard jury would likely convict them. So stick that in your glib little pie hole and continue as you please. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 2:41:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: OOOOOH ! I'M QUIVERIN' IN MY BOOTS! Actually, I don't think any ATF agents are members at my club, and if my rifle were to double, at my club, it would be considered a malfunction. I would immediately clear the rifle, case it and retire it to the shop for repairs.(we even have a rule to that effect) I will be very suprised if that happens. Since I have confidence in my skills, and I don't see an agent behind every bush, I will continue to modify my rifles to make them more accurate and fun to shoot. Thanks to all you naysayers though for your insightful and relevent sharing of your experience though.Isn't this the build it yourself thread? I'm not naysaying anything and you can be a smart ass until the cows come home with your smug crap. I could care less what YOU do. I'm simply saying that David Olofson would have said the same thing once. If you aren't familiar with that case you should be. It's a sub standard part added to modify the fire control group of an AR-15. I don't care who does it, they should just be aware that there is potential that should ANY law enforcement agency get their hooks into them for any reason, there is a good chance the ATF would make a case of attempting to modify as they have done WITHOUT evidence to NUMEROUS people. Were they to do that a gun hating libtard jury would likely convict them. So stick that in your glib little pie hole and continue as you please. David Olofson also had an M16 part in his lower. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#26]
David Olofson also had an M16 part in his lower. That is true but I don't believe he ever admitted to putting them there. Was it not that the rifle was manufactured that way as an older Olympic? My point was he probably told him self at some time that there weren't any ATF agents in his rifle club etc.... There wasn't one lurking behind every bush. I doubt he worried much about the ATF. But if you prefer there are cases where straight up malfunctions with broken parts have been tried by the ATF. Either way I really don't care. I simply think everyone should consider that fact. That was all I really had to say on the issue in the first place. Just as with M16 carriers because Colt uses them you have some protection. For lowers that come with a set screw you have some protection in that they were manufactured that way. Only takes a yes or no question. Did you install that part in your rifle to modify the action or function of the fire control group? Yes or No? Anyway I'm tired of this dead horse. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 3:51:02 PM EDT
[#27]
I have taken the time to familiarize myself with the Olofson case, it is a travesty in every way. The man was destroyed bay the ATF for no valid reason. Gun Owners of America have established a releif fund for his family to help support them during this difficult time while he is imprisoned and pending his appeal. Here is the link, so put your money where your mouth is and help his family, as I have.
http://gunowners.org/olofson.htm That said, several things occured to him that I will not have happen to me; one, he loaned his rifle out. I will let people shoot my rifles, in my presence, but they don't leave home without me. This led to the second thing, multiple malfunctions(three in the report I read) One double-tap and I'm done. I have never had such a malfuntion and don't anticipate one.Finally, the range I shoot at is rural, has multiple legal auto shooters on a regular basis, and shares the property with a police/school range where full auto fire is relatvely common. I suspect a small burst malfunction would go unnoticed. I also take issue with my mods being"substandard". My rifle is all high quality parts and the set screw is a hardened steel part set in a high quality Aircraft aluminum loweragainst a high quality FCG. Nothing substandard about it. Finally, as a Free American, I refuse to be cowed by the ATF or anyone else. While I do not put myself out in the public eye or seek their attention, I will continue to pursue my perfectly legal hobby as I see fit. And as to whats his name who I've aready forgotten, had he merely referenced the case in point in the first place as a kind suggestion instead of his shrill" FELONY WARNING WILL ROBINSON!" he would have gotten a lot more respect. |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 6:45:29 PM EDT
[#28]
also make sure you dont go to the range wearing shoes that have shoe laces if you take an AK with you
cool trick for adjusting your trigger creep |
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Posted: 8/30/2009 9:31:02 PM EDT
[#29]
I bought a trigger that shall remain nameless that has two set screws to adjust take up and over travel. I sent the first one back and just decided the second one is going back. I guess I will just have to stick with the good old RRA single stage. It works great anyway.
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Posted: 8/30/2009 11:26:10 PM EDT
[#30]
I have an ergo grip and it has a hole already drilled out of it and the screw can go in from there.
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Posted: 8/31/2009 6:06:57 AM EDT
[#31]
High Power shooters did this mod for a long time. Seemed to work for them.
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Posted: 9/2/2009 5:23:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, a friend and I went to the range for a morning and burned up several hundred rounds. I put a good 200 through my AR build with the modified trigger. WOW. It performed flawlessly, A very nice, clean break, very short pull with negligable creep, very short but crisp reset. Everytime, ZERO malfunctions. Just what I had hoped for, a really excellent home grown single stage trigger.
Before you start.....yes I know 200 rounds is not a definative test of reliability, but I do think it's a good START!
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Posted: 9/2/2009 9:37:04 AM EDT
[#33]
mine has been done like this for about 6 months and about 2k rounds - i dont get out and shoot alot but it is way better than stock and i have had no problems.
JP light springs, but i used the 3/8 set screw (thanks Ace Hardware) and 1 lock washer (it almost tightened up snug without it but i wanted that grip real secure). |
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Posted: 9/11/2009 6:34:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Another 200 rds down range, got in a box of SSA 77 gr Sierra Match that the rifle really liked 7 out of 10 in one raggedy hole. Trigger still functioning perfectly, as expected. Put another 80 or so through my friends 6.8 withthe same trigger job, as well as about 40 through his brothers .204 with the same work. No malfunctions.
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Posted: 9/11/2009 7:15:02 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I honestly don't know how it could be any better. Try a Jard single stage adj. trigger with about 2# pull, you won't go back! +1 |
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Posted: 9/11/2009 1:01:36 PM EDT
[#36]
If someone will send me one of those JARD triggers I'll be happy to run a side by side comparison....
While I'm waiting, I'll keep shooting raggedy holes with my $10 4# trigger.
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Posted: 9/11/2009 1:21:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
If someone will send me one of those JARD triggers I'll be happy to run a side by side comparison.... While I'm waiting, I'll keep shooting raggedy holes with my $10 4# trigger.sounds like you done a great job. way to go! personally i bought a superior lower over a rock river because of the set screw. i've got a very clean, crisp pull. my franken-build gobbles the ammo up. $$$
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Posted: 9/11/2009 6:45:06 PM EDT
[#38]
I dont understand why people dont want to spend a few dollars to do something the right way. Instead, they would rather jerry rigg stuff and risk malfuntions, jail time, or worse, death or injury. Im not just talking about this but jerry rigging anything on a firearm is plain stupid.
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Posted: 9/11/2009 7:10:19 PM EDT
[#39]
you know every time I hear ATF, I look for the clown car to show up instantly and 10 masked figures to jump out and check my rifle.... seriously give it a break this will not make your gun double if its in too far, your safety doesn't work and your hammer will not be released from your disconnector, the exact opposite of what is said it could do. you might find some magical bump fire area but thats not doubling. there is lowers with this ALREADY built in, you can buy triggers with setscrews going down toward the lower to achieve the same thing.
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Posted: 9/11/2009 8:12:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I dont understand why people dont want to spend a few dollars to do something the right way. Instead, they would rather jerry rigg stuff and risk malfuntions, jail time, or worse, death or injury. Im not just talking about this but jerry rigging anything on a firearm is plain stupid.
Jerry rigged...and on what facts do you base this brilliant, little assumption? Do you know anything about this member and his engineering skills? Have you ever been to the range with him? I'll venture to say 'no' on both fronts. I was there, I've fired this rifle; it's flawless. |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 8:19:11 AM EDT
[#41]
So let me see if I understand; if you take it to someone or send it off, where you can't see whats been done, it's gunsmithing, but if I do it at home, it's dangerous jerry rigging?
Just making sure......Glad somebody came along to finally straighten me out. I picked up this tinkering with my triggers habit when I was twelve and swapped out the sole spring behind my Marlin single shot for a lighter one from a ball point pen after reading some Jim Carmichel story in Outdoor Life. Still have the rifle, still shoots, 35+ years later. Lots of triggers tinkered with since then.
I have tools, I like to think I have a few rudimentary skills, I even have a little card and a magazine subscription that says I'm a member of a gunsmithing assosiation. But I guess since I don't make a living at it, I'm not qualified to modify my own rifle.  So what build it yourself mods meet your approval? Parts swapping? Buying expensive things that someone else made?
My neighbor just gave me a small lathe and promised to teach me how to use it.(and he's going to show me how to use his mill and surface grinder) so I can't wait to try something new(maybe a brake). Maybe I'll mill out my own trigger group ......
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Posted: 9/12/2009 9:55:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Could i do this same mod but put the screw in my tigger instead of my lower
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Posted: 9/12/2009 11:45:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: I dont understand why people dont want to spend a few dollars to do something the right way. Instead, they would rather jerry rigg stuff and risk malfuntions, jail time, or worse, death or injury. Im not just talking about this but jerry rigging anything on a firearm is plain stupid. No offense intended here but it kind of sounds like someone who hasn't spent much time looking at a trigger or this mod in particular. This may be a poor comparison but you don't have to be a mechanic to preform mechanical procedures. Lots of people lay in their drive way and change their oil, tune the engine, replace brake linings every bit as well as the certified technician in the shop. Literally the job can be done no better than what than a particular shade tree mechanic might do regardless of where you take the car. This can be true of small gun smithing tasks, there are many skill levels when it comes to gun smiths. In fact a gun smith's ability may not have anything to do with his skill but perhaps access to specific equipment. "Smith A" may not have the ability to machine or mill certain projects, "Smith B" may be able to complete this project. This doesn't mean that "Smith A" is any less qualified to do another task that "Smith B" can do, in fact he may do it better depending upon the circumstance. What is important with respect to what you have said is simply this, a person needs to be up to the task they are preforming in order to not make their gun less safe or reliable. Anyone reading this thread will agree, if you aren't comfortable making a modification to a firearm pay someone you trust that can do the job. |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 12:12:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Could i do this same mod but put the screw in my tigger instead of my lower Yes you could. In essence that is how many after market manufacturers make their adjustable triggers. That said, you'll either have to drill the trigger rail in the center of the tail for a small set screw or weld and add some type of fixture on to the rear side of the trigger rail to hold a set screw. In fact you can do as Bill Springfield does and weld a spot on the bottom or the trigger rail and then grind the spot for a custom fit. Brownell's sells an trigger jig that sits outside of the receiver using the hammer and trigger holes, it allows all of the custom fitting to be made in plain sight. All of these methods will accomplish the same thing it's just that the one the OP mentions is easily accomplished without specialty tools. Literally anyone comfortable with their skills can do it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Could i do this same mod but put the screw in my tigger instead of my lower Triggers are normally hardened steel, most are just surface hardened but they tend to be very hard to drill and tap. |
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Posted: 9/12/2009 1:55:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Would THIS be the right type of set screw? Looks like I could do this to 25 lowers for $5.14 ... Take that $100 drop in triggers!!
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Posted: 9/12/2009 4:00:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Yeppers, thats the one. My friend one upped me and used a 3/8" 1/4 28. The three eiths ususally allows you to reuse your grip screw with only the addition of a thick flat washer under the star washer. With a 1/2" you may have to shorten your grip screw a tad.
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Posted: 9/14/2009 3:43:10 PM EDT
[#48]
This is a very simple and effective addition to a DPMS shitty trigger. Along with the older "15 minute trigger job" thread and I have a pretty nice trigger now. DPMS triggers are very bad.
Thanks guys for posting this stuff. AL |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 5:34:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Correction for a mistake on my part. Oops! |
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Posted: 9/14/2009 5:51:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Response to Oops deleted.
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