Damnit!  (Seems I'm going to have to order a bunch...  )

They need to get it down to $30 for a pair and they'll have me interested.

Magpul, I understand you're trying to take over the market, but you'll have to do better than that. A $28 swivel that does nothing better than a $10 recessed button swivel (such as DI's recessed button swivels, the best I've used yet) is ... well... good luck with that.
You've got some hit and misses. This ones a total dud.

I think it is a good idea but not at $30.00 for 1 qd.

Deleted - This is not GD.

I too like the idea but think it should be more competitive in pricing with other QD options.

No thank you, priced to high and it does nothing better than the button type.



Maybe if you left off the MAGPUL engraving it would be more competitively priced.

I am used to the push button versions and have no problem using them. I see no reason to replace the six I own now with these at a cost of $180. If I were new to this and had money to burn I might buy them but I am neither. I could use another LaRue scope mount or a trigger, that is far more important for the money than fancy sling swivels.

This!

olcrow is still right......

I've had no issues with standard push button swivels either. However, I think this is something that you may just have to use to realize the benefits. I'll give one a try to see how I like it compared to the standard type. I've spent way more than $30 in the interest of improving something that was working fine.

I used to do math on a mil/moa scope until I tried one with matching reticle/turrets
I used to deal with the jump of a harris bipod off concrete until I tried an atlas
I used to shoot just fine with a mil-spec trigger until I tried a SSA-E.

says who? i agree it's a better product, but it's better than the one that's good enough. the general consensus is it's too expensive for what it is.

i wouldn't mind if they started shipping on the ms4 kits, but would i go out of the way for these compared to your regular QD's? probably not. and i certainly wouldn't replace a perfectly functional QD with a QDM just because.

i still wouldn't call it a dud as someone else did, because i like the product.

$10* QD swivel.
Damage Industries offers one of the best QD swivels in a variety of sizes and they're often found on sale for $10.
You're charging three times as much.

It's neat, but I can't see myself purchasing any at the current price point.

Sorry, but I disagree with the crowd.

Considering I have over $4,200 in my go to AR, I don't think that $30 is going to hurt too bad.

the reason i selectively quoted you is because from a consumer standpoint, there's no way to spin  the QDM to us as a bargain. as has been mentioned, quality QD's are available for $10, tripling the price, for fairly minor gains in functionality doesn't hold much appeal.

when the product was first announced i was one of the few people on board with the idea here, because it is in fact a better design. won't debate that for a minute. but i don't own any.  and the only way i see myself owning any, is if they came on my next ms4 sling, whether it's because they became standard on your products, or if it were say $10 more for the sling with 2 qdm's vs with 2 standard qd's.

if one of my standard magpul QD's were to fail, the QDM wouldn't be my first choice as a replacement. either a generic one with good reviews, or another regular magpul qd if i could find one with free shipping would be what i would buy.

i'm not trying to bash your product at all, because the product isn't the problem, i think the product is great. but i think a 50% premium in price is a hard sell for what we'd be getting from a consumer standpoint.

Seems to be a really well thought out product and no denying working up new tooling isn't a cheap proposition in this day and age.  Reality is though if you want to sell a metric ton of them to the general public who are jaded by the old style a review down the road on the PP may prove insanely profitable.  Kudo's again to Magpul in making something far better than the standard fare, there is value in that package.

1)  Everyone's right, it is more highly priced than the competition.  Not everyone needs the 'go fast gear'.

2)  Magpul's right, the small increase in price (what? an extra half-hr's pay?  an hour of minimum wage?) is immaterial to those who Do need 'go fast gear'.  It is a more intuitive and probably faster way to go to a single sling, which some people either need or want.

3)  I'm right.  Well, simply because I am.

I'm not a buyer at the listed price. Way too expensive. They would have to be more competitively prices to even spark my interest.



One of the important things you seem to be over looking is that most of the people who might buy these already HAVE something similar. Most of us are not operators and the things you state about why these are so much better, won't really matter to most of us.



I've been using the smaller sized Damage Industries D-Ring QD swivels that run $14.95 each. I see no reason to buy something else when the D-Rings work SO freaking well.



http://damageindustriesllc.com/product/quick-detach-sling-swivels



These things work GREAT with say the MS3 paraclips.

I'll get a set, just because. I've spent more on less

Will there be a MS1 sling adapter version of this QD? I asked in Magpul's forum but got no answer. I would like both ends of my MS1 to have the QDM, hopefully you will offer this in the future.

As a noob to the community (though long time lurker) and current builder of my first AR, I have yet to purchase anything for my sling setup...heck I don't even have a barrel yet. With that said, I may just pickup a few of these and give'm a whirl as they look like quality made parts that provide more functionality and they come from a company I trust.

The QDM looks cool so no criticism here.

What I really want to know is how you attached that rail section on that STR stock and can it be done just as easy on a ACS-L?

I will be ordering a couple for a new rifle.

I put one on one of my rigs. The triangle shape of the bale fixed an interference problem i had with the stock and traditional shaped looped bales.
Quality product IMO.

VL

Pretty sure I saw these at the Fort Worth Gun Show today priced at $19.95.

A ms1 adapter, qdm become the standardor a entirely new sling would be the three things that'll make me buy this product. $30 for it is kind of out there given the fact that a ms1 sling and a complete ms4 sling comes in at $60. I think that's pretty much the only complaint; great idea and design!

Yeah there really isn't any reason to improve anything. I mean muzzle loaders worked, horses got people around just fine and oil lamps provided enough light to read by. WTF were you thinking Magpul?






Just for the record I think this design solves the problem I have always had with standard QD swivels and at some point I intend to try a pair but I'm not going to knock them until I have first hand experience.

IF you read the thread you might notice that nobody knocked the product, only the price of $60 for a pair of sling swivels.



 

I noticed three posts where people proclaimed the QDM was no better and did nothing better than the standard QD swivels AND they were complaining about the MSRP of $30. Not a single one of those people claimed to have first hand experience with the QDM or bothered to do a price check.  I found them for $22 at DSG Arms.

How is that "knocking" them? I'm sure the MP QD swivels work fine. So do $10 NON MP swivels. If they both work, how is that knocking them? Since the MP swivels are 2-3x the cost of others (for example DI swivels), are they 2-3x better?
IF you have two products that serve the same purpose/function, you better believe that price will be a HUGE factor.
As said above, knocking the price isn't necessarily knocking the product. There IS a difference. And at that much of a gap, your darn right people are going to point it out and expect something MUCH better than other QD's.

I personally don't care for the release button on traditional QD swivels. I find that I have to grasp the entire swivel so that I can rotate the sling loop out of the way in order for my thumb to engage the release button. It feels clunky whether or not the QD mount is anti-rotation, and it slows me down when transitioning from 2-point to a single-point adapter (e.g., Blue Force Gear UWL on a SCAR).

While I don't have any Magpul QDMs (yet), it is obvious that it allows for disengagement of the swivel without the need to rotate the assembly out of the way as is natural for me with standard swivels. Effectively, it allows one to disengage the swivel with only your thumb and index finger, whereas the traditional swivel requires my thumb, index, and middle fingers. Overall, it should contribute to a more positive retention of the weapon, especially while making sling transitions.

For me, this represents a large increase in dexterity for a fairly modest increase in price, which is what Magpul really seems to be all about. I'm not a Magpul fanboy (I have a CTR, B.A.D., and have used their MIAD and MOE+), but I can recognize the innovation and look forward to trying them out.

"Don't knock it before you try it" is a term that has been used for a very long time and it is meant to imply that people should not criticize something until they have first hand experience with it so the question is have you actually tried a QDM? Since we all know the answer is no then how is it that you are so comfortable in your opinion that they do not work any better than your current DQ swivels? I am not saying there are not worthless products out there or that, in those cases, anyone with a drop of common sense can tell they are worthless without spending their hard earned money but I do not think this is the case with this product. There was enough call for a better QD swivel and Magpul answered the call.

I really do not have a need for these since I have proven to myself numerous times that I do not like single point slings for 90% of what I do. However, there are times when I want the ability to transition to a single point; I have considered picking up an adapter that allows me to use the QD Swivels to transition to single point but those times generally come when I don't have a lot of time to be dicking around with those dam recessed buttons. Standard QD swivels are not easy to use, they are convenient and the introduction of stress into the situation does not help matters.

Standard QD swivel require two fingers around the front of the sling loop to pull it out and a thumb to press the button but you cannot apply reward pressure with your fingers while pressing the button or the swivel will not release. When putting the swivel back in it is slightly easier in that you squeeze the swivel between your fingers and thumb but if you do not have the button depressed while inserting the swivel or it will not go in. It is a delicate balancing act and stress makes it even harder.

Watching the video it appears the QDM's require a finger and a thumb. There is no squeeze, push pull nonsense, you grab the latches and pull it out. To put it back in, you hold the latches and push it in. There is one process, grab the latches in either side and move in the direction you want the swivel to go. Under enough stress even this simple process might be impossible to accomplish but if the stress point has reached that level you probably should be worrying about your sling position anyways but a standard QD swivel would become impossible to use well before this level of stress.

You may not agree on the necessity of this item, you certainly do not like the price and you are entitled to your opinion but so am I. I understand the cost associated with designing, prototyping and manufacturing a product and I do not think these are astronomically priced. I also do not feel they are an absolute necessity on all of my rifles but, if they pass muster they will be on my work gun and personal defense rifle. The only issue I will have if they work as advertised is replacing the two slings I currently have on those rifles.

Sorry you have such a hard time releasing the stand QD swivel. I just grab the sling in my hand and push the button with my thumb and it's off, really simple and easy for me.



I don't need to try one of these new styles since the old ones work just fine for me.



And I can actually look at something and decide if I want it without buying it first. If I had to purchase everything first before I could decide if I like it I would be very poor.



I own three slings with two QD swivels on each. With the money to buy 6 more swivels I would rather buy something I actually need and want.



Just don't knock what I have said here until you have walked a mile in my boots. Same thing right?
 

I never said I had a hard time releasing a standard swivel. I said it was not a easy as the name implies and when stress is introduced it becomes more difficult. My post above addressed transitioning from a two point to single point using a sling specifically designed for the purpose or using and adapter. Using your method of grabbing the sling with your hand, pushing the button with your thumb and then pulling the sling out is fine when the rifle is laying on a bench but you cannot put the sling back on without re-positioning your hand so it is slower then the method I mentioned.

I could care less if you try them, how many slings you own or how much it would cost you to replace your existing swivels; that has no bearing on the functionality or purpose of the product. I am fully capable of looking at something and determining if it is a completely worthless POS and I will back it up with specific reasons why if I choose to comment on it. I am also capable of looking at a product and determining that although it is just not meant for me it does serve a purpose for someone and just because it isn't my cup of tea or I don't like the price it is not therefore meaningless.

You claim the QDM doesn't do anything any better than a standard QD swivel. I absolutely disagree but the difference between us is I have given a logical and technical explanation why your claim doesn't hold water where as you just want to throw out one liners.

I have spent a few years using standard QD swivels so I have already walked that mile.




 

How many do you own and how long have you been using these new swivels?



 

I own two LaRue two point slings with QD swivels. The front swivel is sewn in from the manufacturer and I had the rear swivel sewn in by a local shop. I have owned and used one of those slings almost exclusively for 9 years on my patrol rifle. I use these slings on 4 different rifles but the one on my patrol rifle stays on my patrol rifle and the one on my personal defense gun gets re-purposed to my fun guns when needed. I have used the Vickers, Magpul MS1, the Viking Tactics non-padded and Black Hawk CQB over the last 9 years but I like the LaRue best so that is what I continually use. I don't have a lot of money to piss away hence the reason I only own two slings for 4 rifles but I also don't have a problem spending a little more to get quality especially if it is going to make me more efficient.

I do not own the new swivels. I am making an educated guess the same as you are.

That's what I thought, but yet you told me I was wrong for "knocking something without actually owning it". (Which I did not do, I simply said they aren't for me since I have no problem with the standard style and the cost was too high.)



Exactly how is saying something is good without ever owning it different?



If I am ever in need of another set of QD swivels and find these new ones at a price closer to the old style I will try them. But until then I see no need to buy them.



 

That is not what you thought, that is what you already knew since I made it very clear I did not own a set of these.

You said, "No thank you, priced to high and it does nothing better than the button type". You went on to say, “I am used to the push button versions and have no problem using them. I see no reason to replace the six I own now with these at a cost of $180. If I were new to this and had money to burn I might buy them but I am neither”. Nothing in that conveys, "These may be ok for some people and they might work great but at the price point they are just not for me since the standard ones work fine for my needs".

We can agree to disagree and you may very well end up being right. The QDM’s might end up being the biggest POS ever thought up but you don’t know that for a fact and you won’t know if they are worth the price until you actually try them or until someone rings in with their firsthand experience. Maybe you just were not as clear as you meant to be and maybe I'm just an asshole but I feel you are wrong because you made, what I read to be, a matter of fact statement without any real experience to back it up.

It is different because I have formed a preliminary opinion while at the same time reserving my final opinion until I actually use them. It is different because I value innovation that improves efficiency while you mock it because you don't have a need for it. It is different because I am willing to give what appears to be a better option the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise and I have not simply discredited the product because of the price.

The question you really want the answer to is why I have decided to take up this fight and why I am so passionate in my argument. It is because I work for an organization full of "old school, if it aint broke don't fix it" types. The boots on the ground I work with had to endure years of carrying M16 A1 rifles (fixed A1 butt stocks, fixed iron sights, 20” barrels, strap slings, no lights and no optics) because of the, “It was good enough for me 30 years ago so it’s good enough for you now” bullshit attitude. We had people going into situations where the needed a rifle but because the rifles were, at the time, all but useless anywhere except on the range the rifles never left the car. We continue to endure administrators who refuse to purchase quality equipment because of a slightly higher cost or waist money garbage because it looks cool. Those kinds of attitudes piss me off; when I hear it or read it I generally start shooting my mouth off or in this case typing. This is not general discussion, it is a technical forum. I am not against a little humor or personal opinion but I am against making a blanket, matter of fact, one line general discussion type of statement, in a technical forum without any real firsthand experience.

I don’t have any vested interest in Magpul. I have had words with them before and Lord knows what I wanted to do to someone at Magpul when I received a “fitted” Magpul t-shirt when I thought I was getting the typical potato sack style t-shirt that I love so much.

I never said they don't work as well as standard QD's. What I said was ARE THEY WORTH 3x THE PRICE of standard QD's. Again, you are reading what isn't there. People aren't knocking the product, they are knocking the price.
You are right, I haven't tried them. I also DO know that my "standard" QD's work just fine. So, as others, I'm left with "well if these work great, why should I spend 3x more to replace them?".
Again, not saying it isn't a great product, I'm saying how is it worth 3x more than a product that already works (and has for YEARS).

Your original post. “Magpul, I understand you're trying to take over the market, but you'll have to do better than that.  A $28 swivel that does nothing better than a $10 recessed button swivel (such as DI's recessed button swivels, the best I've used yet) is ... well... good luck with that. You've got some hit and misses. This ones a total dud.”

You think I am reading more into this than you meant. You are right because there is more in it than what you want it to mean now. When you preface your response with, I don’t like your marketing style and you think you are God’s gift to the industry and end it with more of the same what is sandwiched in between gets lost in translation. If you do not like my interpretation be a little clearer next time and leave out the personal vendetta stuff.

I did not mention your username or OlCrow’s, you both interpreted my post as being directed toward yourselves and you both called me out to defend my opinion. I have done so without back tracking or claiming you misinterpreted what I wrote. This is a technical forum and it is not the place for this kind of stuff so if you want to continue this conversation we will need to take it somewhere else but what I said to OlCrow is the same thing I am saying to you. Unless you have a QDM in your possession and you have done some type of hands on review you do not know what you are talking about. You know your current QD swivels work fine for you only because you have hands on experience with them. If I came in here and said Damage Industries swivels suck and regardless of the price they are not worth the money you would be on me like white on rice. If in my response I admitted to never having used them you would think I am an idiot. Tell me I am wrong…

Regardless of what you said then or what you want it to translate too now here is the long and short of it. You clearly said the QDM is not any better than a standard swivel. You also said the QDM is not worth the price. Both are clearly your opinions but you voiced in a matter of fact way, done so in a technical forum and you have never touched one of these things.  

You, I and every other swinging dick in this place can look at a picture or watch a video and say, those do not look like something I have any use for and I think they are overpriced. You said that but it only reads that way now because you have clarified you post. I have opinions on many things and I have voiced my opinion many times but to take a quote from OlCrow, walk a mile in my boots. First you can read my last response to OlCrow about why the “if it aint broke” attitude pisses me off and then read what is below.

Having been subpoenaed as part of a civil lawsuit between two well known and rather large gun accessory manufacturers for things I said on this website and having been AROCKED by sales rep for a different industry giant over an email, I see things from a different perspective than most people. What you say on this or any internet forum only carries so much protection under the First Amendment and only so much anonymity.

I am a reasonable person with reasonable sensibilities. I am not a lawyer but I am detail oriented and analytical. I am not a civil law expert but I do have to deal with it on a regular basis and again I have had two very unpleasant experiences with what I am now talking about now. I interpreted your post as malicious and the way it is written is presented as factual which means a lawyer would have a field day with you if it came to it. Magpul does not appear to me to be the kind of company that would go after someone for voicing their opinion but you should understand that when you voice your opinion in a way that can be interpreted as being presented as fact and if it can be shown that it brings undue harm upon someone or a business or it is done with malicious intent it becomes libel.  You can be sued for libel.

In the case with the lawsuit I was lucky the defendant’s attorney was sharper than the complainant’s. The mistake the attorney for the complainant made was coming to the deposition without doing his homework. I sat through 4 hours of his questions and word twisting and having to continually defend my opinion with real hands on experience only to continually have my credibility questioned. The deposition ended 10 minutes into the defendants questioning when he had me list my credentials and certifications. Personally could care less what you say and the chance of you having to endure what I have been through is extremely remote but ask yourself this, would you have fared as well? If I were an attorney for Magpul and I wanted to make an example out of you could you defend your statement with more than, you read it wrong.  An attorney does not care about twisting your words and painting you as someone with a personal vendetta? So again I examine things a little differently than most.

The second experience was with a well know optics manufacturer. I sent an email to customer service and pointed out what they were already fully aware of. What I said to them is well documented and can be readily proven but when they passed the buck to the local sale rep he used his contacts to silence me. I got a day off without pay and removed from a specialty team simply because he did not like me pointing out known flaws. That is a little different than what we are dealing with right here, right now but talking about it helps me cope..

What does all this mean? You are entitled to your opinion but when it is not backed by some type of hands on experience don't get your shorts in a knot when someone disagrees with it. Unless you have a long list of impressive credentials to back up your expertise don't expect me to roll over and take you at your word and I pray you never get sucked into the civil cesspool without a life jacket.