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Posted: 5/11/2017 12:55:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we're allowing this crap in tech now? I have a scope that has ears on it for mounting a red dot. At point shooting distance a red dot isn't slower than a scope. At longer ranges a red dot isn't more precise than an optic. At likely engagement distances the red dot is the perfect tool for being fastest on target. The Aimpoint is one of the best red dots available. I am stating the obvious so that a visitor doesn't wander in and think it's a clusterf@&$ of opinions. This guy is here to damage the value of the forum to visitors new to the shooting community and moderators need to be a little faster to deal with this. Open your brains and think for a second. You guys are spending the same amount of money that could buy a state of the art scope, on a red dot! |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#2]
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Red dot fad is coming to an end. I recommend you look at real etched reticle optics, like ACOGS and scopes, or maybe the dual illuminated RMRs. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:13:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS is why I'm looking at them. I just am not sure that the Leupold VX6 1-6X24 is bright enough to function as a red dot for me. (The only reason that I'm interested in the 1-6 in the first place is that it's lighter than having a 3X magnifier). |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:27:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would do the shooting community wonders to break free from the idiotic red dot fad. Most professional shooters don't used red dots, they use either irons or scopes. It's the amateur shooting community who follow this fad like lemmings. And why? Because the army issues Aimpoints. Not realizing that the only reason the army does this is because red dots are the cheapest shit they can get for their troops. Aimpoint then inflates the prices for consumers and laughs all the way to the bank. Open your brains and think for a second. You guys are spending the same amount of money that could buy a state of the art scope, on a red dot! Magnified optics aren't the end all, be all solution. And to add a small point, etched reticle for battery failure isn't a fair argument against red dots, co-witnessed Buis are a necessity. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:30:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't value the contribution of no bullshit common sense and logic? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:43:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry dude, not buying it. You can look at all the issued equipment and figure out pretty quick that serious door kickers have been using red dots for some time, effectively. Even with purpose built, issued rifles with LPV/HPV optics, you often see top or angle mounted Trijicon, j point, doctor, leupold, etc.... If you seriously believe that backup red dot ain't for 0-50/100 yards, you need to open your eyes. Magnified optics aren't the end all, be all solution. And to add a small point, etched reticle for battery failure isn't a fair argument against red dots, co-witnessed Buis are a necessity. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:50:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't tell you on the VX6, the new HD version is on my short list for a Recce type build I'm 90% finished with. I personally don't depend on the short battery life most LPV's have for PD/HD. If I had to choose variable vs. red dot for serious work, not gun games and target shooting, 3.5x ACOG gets the nod. A little of both, but not the best of either. M4S is anything but obsolete, and if you're not using your sight, even at close range, both eyes open, you're nuts, unless IR laser and NV or grenades. Yes, the Aimpoint takes a battery, and you take food and water, a singe AA bat every couple of years ain't too much to ask of the supply chain. But I do use 3X Aimpoint (there's that dirty word again) magnifiers, but they're not usually on the gun (although they make a good grip under the rail if you like forward grips). TA11 3.5X ACOG is superb on anything longer than a SBR (at least for me). If you need more mag, you do have your 10X42 binoculars, don't you? Best not to take that 650 meter shot, if you don't think you can make it. The low powered variables just don't do it for me, poor eye box, pitiful in low light, short battery life which don't matter anyway because they aren't bright enough. But most importantly, they are way slower than an Aimpoint at close ranges. Some shooters adapt well, others (like me) do way better with a BAC ACOG. Your mileage may vary. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 2:14:45 PM EDT
[#8]
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I'm glad that this discussion is turning around and more people are recommending scopes, as they should. But red dot for home defense is beyond retarded. You're going to actually aim at room distances? Anyone aiming at room distances should go out and shoot more for practice. At room distances you point and shoot. I've talked with countless soldiers, no one aims with their stupid red dots while clearing rooms in combat. This method is too slow. Within any room distance, soldiers simply point and shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can totally believe this is true, for me when using it at 1x inside of a house it makes my FOV feel claustrophobic if that makes sense. At this point truth be told the only reason I have a red dot sight is for HD. Your posts in Tech are comedic. You imply people are room clearing in HD scenarios. Are they kicking their own doors down too? Maybe flashbang the kids' rooms before hipfiring through drywall? RDS are fast, allow for low visibility shooting, at a lower weight. Your comments around Aimpoint being bad and RDS's being "beyond retarded" for use cases show how backwards you are... Take the curtain down and post some videos of you shooting. We'd love to see how pros are doing it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 2:16:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think anyone considering going down the red dot route should read that big thread from Green Eye Tactical (Do Pushups) regarding the parallax testing. It may or may not matter to you depending on your style of shooting. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 2:27:32 PM EDT
[#10]
My Comp ML2 still hits where I point it. It hasn't been off the rifle since the day I installed it.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 3:44:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may have missed it, but what LPV are you using? The K16i, Z6i, Razor HD2, and MK6 to a lesser extent all pretty much just leave a floating reticle in your vision on 1x. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 3:49:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 3:54:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad that this discussion is turning around and more people are recommending scopes, as they should. But red dot for home defense is beyond retarded. You're going to actually aim at room distances? Anyone aiming at room distances should go out and shoot more for practice. At room distances you point and shoot. I've talked with countless soldiers, no one aims with their stupid red dots while clearing rooms in combat. This method is too slow. Within any room distance, soldiers simply point and shoot. Tell us about YOUR PERSONAL combat experiences. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 3:57:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 5:24:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you would go ahead and stop shitposting retarded nonsense all over the internet, that'd be great. I've got him on ignore and his retarded comments still muddy up the tech threads. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 5:37:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry dude, not buying it. You can look at all the issued equipment and figure out pretty quick that serious door kickers have been using red dots for some time, effectively. Even with purpose built, issued rifles with LPV/HPV optics, you often see top or angle mounted Trijicon, j point, doctor, leupold, etc.... If you seriously believe that backup red dot ain't for 0-50/100 yards, you need to open your eyes. Magnified optics aren't the end all, be all solution. And to add a small point, etched reticle for battery failure isn't a fair argument against red dots, co-witnessed Buis are a necessity. 
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Posted: 5/11/2017 5:50:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Red dot fad is coming to an end. I recommend you look at real etched reticle optics, like ACOGS and scopes, or maybe the dual illuminated RMRs. 
You're a funny guy. There is an unreal amount of Derp in this thread, I hope its trolling I have an M2 that's been used and abused for a while, Its well over 10 years old, can't tell a difference between it and the PRO. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 6:45:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad that this discussion is turning around and more people are recommending scopes, as they should. that's not a "Ignore RDSs and buy a LPV Scope" recommendation.. it's a "I already have a couple of everything else, might as well round off the collection" statement. I'm not on your side.. OP was right to look at a battle proven RDS for his only rifle. NO WAY I'd put a LPV Scope on my rifle if I only had one of them.. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 6:49:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would do the shooting community wonders to break free from the idiotic red dot fad. Most professional shooters don't used red dots, they use either irons or scopes. It's the amateur shooting community who follow this fad like lemmings. And why? Because the army issues Aimpoints. Not realizing that the only reason the army does this is because red dots are the cheapest shit they can get for their troops. Aimpoint then inflates the prices for consumers and laughs all the way to the bank. Open your brains and think for a second. You guys are spending the same amount of money that could buy a state of the art scope, on a red dot! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So we're allowing this crap in tech now? I have a scope that has ears on it for mounting a red dot. At point shooting distance a red dot isn't slower than a scope. At longer ranges a red dot isn't more precise than an optic. At likely engagement distances the red dot is the perfect tool for being fastest on target. The Aimpoint is one of the best red dots available. I am stating the obvious so that a visitor doesn't wander in and think it's a clusterf@&$ of opinions. This guy is here to damage the value of the forum to visitors new to the shooting community and moderators need to be a little faster to deal with this. Open your brains and think for a second. You guys are spending the same amount of money that could buy a state of the art scope, on a red dot! |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 1:39:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The absolute worst possible optic in a real SHTF scenario. An all battery powered red dot. I mean seriously? You're trolling. You can't seriously be telling us that batteries are an issue for Aimpoints. It's true that the lower priced red dot options are leaps and bounds better than they used to be, and there are a lot more options for high end 1x sights, but Aimpoint is still king of the heap. $300-something for a new PRO is hard to beat. I don't need a dot, or the irons, to hit a target across the room; the front sight base works well enough for that with practice. But I'm sure as hell not going to point shoot half way across the yard (which is not some 40 foot wide suburban postage stamp), and the dot beats irons hands down in all sorts of ways. Also very useful at the distances I may need to shoot at something out in the middle of nowhere. My preference is actually for the 4 MOA dot over the 2 MOA dot; it's easier to use the larger dot for range estimation. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 3:11:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just replaced a battery in an M68 that had been in there for a couple of years when I bought it - which was 8 years ago. You're trolling. You can't seriously be telling us that batteries are an issue for Aimpoints. It's true that the lower priced red dot options are leaps and bounds better than they used to be, and there are a lot more options for high end 1x sights, but Aimpoint is still king of the heap. $300-something for a new PRO is hard to beat. I don't need a dot, or the irons, to hit a target across the room; the front sight base works well enough for that with practice. But I'm sure as hell not going to point shoot half way across the yard (which is not some 40 foot wide suburban postage stamp), and the dot beats irons hands down in all sorts of ways. Also very useful at the distances I may need to shoot at something out in the middle of nowhere. My preference is actually for the 4 MOA dot over the 2 MOA dot; it's easier to use the larger dot for range estimation. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 8:26:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.... Over
Anybody want to buy my ML3? After reading this thread I might just duct tape a paper towel roll to my upper and look through that to aim.... I don't want to be stuck on an old fad when I could be a 'real' non-aiming operator.... |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 8:58:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.... Over Anybody want to buy my ML3? After reading this thread I might just duct tape a paper towel roll to my upper and look through that to aim.... I don't want to be stuck on an old fad when I could be a 'real' non-aiming operator.... That and one of those "double fire" triggers! FullAuto, I think you've got it! |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 9:00:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.... Over Anybody want to buy my ML3? After reading this thread I might just duct tape a paper towel roll to my upper and look through that to aim.... I don't want to be stuck on an old fad when I could be a 'real' non-aiming operator.... |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story.
cp |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 10:36:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Code: 14VPDT
gets you this: http://www.opticsplanet.com/aimpoint-pro-patrol-rifle-optic-red-dot-riflescope-30mm.html for $389. No affiliation. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 11:45:40 AM EDT
[#27]
Big fan of my Aimpoint Pro and H1. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon either. Don't care what some guy who can do more push-ups than me says, or what some internet operator thinks. They work and are very reliable. And also, not a whole lot of money.
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Posted: 5/12/2017 1:57:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Code: 14VPDT gets you this: http://www.opticsplanet.com/aimpoint-pro-patrol-rifle-optic-red-dot-riflescope-30mm.html for $389. No affiliation. 
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Posted: 5/12/2017 2:46:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Comp ML2 still hits where I point it. It hasn't been off the rifle since the day I installed it. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 8:25:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This may be the Most ignorant statement I have ever read on ARFCOM. Maybe?
cp Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story.
cp He's 100% 1trolling. |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 10:27:07 PM EDT
[#31]
MARSOCs just a bunch of amateurs
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Posted: 5/13/2017 10:29:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious door kickers point and shoot. They don't aim. Why the hell would anyone use a red dot for shooting within room distance? Troops in combat point and shoot, end of story. That's not how we trained or fought |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:23:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong. That's not how we trained or fought |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:26:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was asked to provide his credentials to prove there is a value to listen to his words or to give us hismbat experience and he hasn't been back since. He likes to point to Keanu Reeves as a "good" example of someone trained to fight. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wrong. That's not how we trained or fought |
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Posted: 5/13/2017 11:34:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Jesus, why is this invictus dude not banned from this forum? His shitposting is going to confuse any newbies.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:04:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus, why is this invictus dude not banned from this forum? His shitposting is going to confuse any newbies. His posts are good for one thing, stirring shit. Not one contribution of any technical merit. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:06:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Per the mod " everyone is titled to an opinion. That said, complaints are mounting and his case has been sent up to site staff". His posts are good for one thing, stirring shit. Not one contribution of any technical merit. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:13:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus, why is this invictus dude not banned from this forum? His shitposting is going to confuse any newbies. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:17:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Hell, I still run a comp m on my m14 and would trust my life to it. A lot of people think they are for cqb only but I can hit center mass at 200 yards all day long with it. My go to today is usually the PRO, but anything with aimpoint on it is good to go.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:26:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right. Because this is a dictatorship and all newbies must be preconditioned to like Vortex and BCM. The house brands. Like Lemmings. Any other suggestions or opinions must be banned. Sounds very much like the party who lost recently. And it's laughable that you think point shooting is a viable tactic when you're defending your family. What happened to personal accountability for all your rounds? If you have proper technique, you should be seeing the dot on the target as you're focusing on it anyways. Nobody should be going John Wick in a HD scenario, it should be gathering everyone up and creating a choke point at a room with only one point of entry, while the cops arrive. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:28:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Just like the signs at the zoo....
Please do not feed the monkeys. 
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:28:56 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, I still run a comp m on my m14 and would trust my life to it. A lot of people think they are for cqb only but I can hit center mass at 200 yards all day long with it. My go to today is usually the PRO, but anything with aimpoint on it is good to go. Don't know anyone in CONUS that's going to realistically need to shoot 200+ yards for self defense(short of SHTF or TEOTWAWKI), but it is still a viable option nonetheless |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:30:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just like the signs at the zoo.... Please do not feed the monkeys. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:42:22 AM EDT
[#44]
In response to the OPs original question, I think it's pretty clear that the AP CM 2 is a more than viable option now , as it was when introduced. Maybe not preferred by all, but will still do the job it was intended to.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 12:48:19 AM EDT
[#45]
I love my Aimpoint PRO, but the mount is huge.
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Posted: 5/14/2017 1:59:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right. Because this is a dictatorship and all newbies must be preconditioned to like Vortex and BCM. The house brands. Like Lemmings. Any other suggestions or opinions must be banned. Sounds very much like the party who lost recently. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Jesus, why is this invictus dude not banned from this forum? His shitposting is going to confuse any newbies. 
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Posted: 5/14/2017 2:18:03 PM EDT
[#47]
I have to get in on this...
I love variable powered optics especially VCOG for Afghanistan. Also ran MRDS on gun for anything under 100. If I had to choose one optic for combat I would go variable powered optic since it can work both up close and extended ranges. BUT.... if it was primarily CQB Say if I had to go back and retake Baghdad I would go Aimpoint, seeing farthest shot in city maybe 300m, average shot room distance to100m. My exeriance red dots faster and still better for CQB. The main reason powered optics have taken over 3gun is the level of difficulty of the long range stages, to do well you need magnification. Matches where the longest shot under 100 red dot way to go. Aimpoint Pro on my HD rifle. Shit in fact I like the the Primary Arms micro dot also for a good red dot....I know blasphemy! |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 4:29:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to get in on this... I love variable powered optics especially VCOG for Afghanistan. Also ran MRDS on gun for anything under 100. If I had to choose one optic for combat I would go variable powered optic since it can work both up close and extended ranges. BUT.... if it was primarily CQB Say if I had to go back and retake Baghdad I would go Aimpoint, seeing farthest shot in city maybe 300m, average shot room distance to100m. My exeriance red dots faster and still better for CQB. The main reason powered optics have taken over 3gun is the level of difficulty of the long range stages, to do well you need magnification. Matches where the longest shot under 100 red dot way to go. Aimpoint Pro on my HD rifle. Shit in fact I like the the Primary Arms micro dot also for a good red dot....I know blasphemy! |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 4:35:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I am not alone? ^^ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Red dot fad is coming to an end. I recommend you look at real etched reticle optics, like ACOGS and scopes, or maybe the dual illuminated RMRs. |
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Posted: 5/14/2017 7:30:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to get in on this... I love variable powered optics especially VCOG for Afghanistan. Also ran MRDS on gun for anything under 100. If I had to choose one optic for combat I would go variable powered optic since it can work both up close and extended ranges. BUT.... if it was primarily CQB Say if I had to go back and retake Baghdad I would go Aimpoint, seeing farthest shot in city maybe 300m, average shot room distance to100m. My exeriance red dots faster and still better for CQB. The main reason powered optics have taken over 3gun is the level of difficulty of the long range stages, to do well you need magnification. Matches where the longest shot under 100 red dot way to go. Aimpoint Pro on my HD rifle. Shit in fact I like the the Primary Arms micro dot also for a good red dot....I know blasphemy! |
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