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Posted: 6/1/2015 8:25:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I was shooting prarrie dogs today at 350-400 yards with my 223 and PST 6-24 SFP scope. I was unable to get a clear scope picture with my magnification turned up past 12. I tried using the sunshade, waiting for the barrel to cool (hoping to eliminate heat from mirage), nothing worked. It was the first time I have shoot the scope at these distances. I have however used the scope at at 24x before on a 100 yard range and found the eye relief difficult to manage. I needed to move my eye closer to the scope to get a scope picture at all with the magnification turned up past 12. Shooting on a 100yrd range, once I adjusted my position the optics clarity seemed fine. However at longer ranges clarity at high magnification is bad. I would expect these high magnification clarity issues from a $100 scope, but the Viper PST, with its excellent reputation and costing $750 I expect better performance. What do folks think? Does this sound like a mechanical issue and I should send it in for warranty repair? The first thing I would do is to re-position the scope. It sounds to me like you have the scope too far forward. Typically you want to set the scope in your rings at the highest magnification because the lower magnification is more forgiving. If you are having to move forward at high mag then that makes me think that you have it too far forward. You said at 24x and 100y the image looked fine, but at 350-400y it didn't look good. I hope this isn't a dumb question, but were you adjusting the parallax for the longer range shots? There is a lot of misunderstanding about the parallax adjustment, but your parallax knob is actually adjusting the focus of the scope for the range you are shooting, so to get the clearest image you will need to adjust it for whatever range you are shooting at. Hopefully it is that simple, but if not feel free to give us a call and we can work it out for you over the phone: 1-800-426-0048. Whatever the case may be, we'll make sure we get you taken care of. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 8:53:31 AM EDT
[#2]
My 4-16 PST is headache blurry above 8x.
Everyone who looks through it (experienced optics guys) All try to adjust it but it's a lost cause. A quick Google search shows this is a common issue With the 4-16 PST. I did not think the 6-24 suffered from this problem. Hopefully Vortex gets you fixed up. They have a great reputation. My 4-16 is going back soon but I fear it's not defective. love the scope for all its bells and whistles but the glass leaves a lot to be desired. |
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Posted: 6/28/2015 2:03:08 PM EDT
[#3]
How old is your scope and did they get it fixed . Looking at getting a vortex viper in the 4-16x50
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Posted: 6/28/2015 2:57:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 4-16 PST is headache blurry above 8x. Everyone who looks through it (experienced optics guys) All try to adjust it but it's a lost cause. A quick Google search shows this is a common issue With the 4-16 PST. I did not think the 6-24 suffered from this problem. Hopefully Vortex gets you fixed up. They have a great reputation. My 4-16 is going back soon but I fear it's not defective. love the scope for all its bells and whistles but the glass leaves a lot to be desired. My 4-16 is blurry beyond 12x. I love my 1-4 but im disappointed with the 4-16. |
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Posted: 6/28/2015 3:56:53 PM EDT
[#5]
I've got one on order and have seen similar posts lately. Sounds like there going to sort you out which is good to hear.
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Posted: 6/28/2015 10:37:49 PM EDT
[#6]
I would do the following before calling Vortex:
1) Make sure your ocular focus is set properly. 2) When sighting at longer distances do not assume 400 on the parallax knob equals 400 in the field. You need to adjust for focus, move your eye around to make sure the cross hairs don't move. If they do adjust again and repeat. 3) Test on a cool calm morning with no mirage. 4) Make sure your scope is positioned properly. 5) Clean your lenses. When these are done you can call and provide good input for the techs. At higher magnifications just a little mirage can mess things up. On a recent antelope hunt the Swarovski spotting scope was useless above 20x. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 9:43:51 AM EDT
[#7]
All 24x variable scopes with 50mm objectve lens are going to have a tight, narrow eyebox and 2mm tiny exit pupil when turned up to 24x. These are unavoidable design limitations based on the laws of optical physics.
And mirage is not just a barrel heat issue. Rarely is. Mirage downrange can seriously degrade image quality at more than 15x even with very costly ($2,000+) scopes. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:40:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 4-16 PST is headache blurry above 8x. Everyone who looks through it (experienced optics guys) All try to adjust it but it's a lost cause. A quick Google search shows this is a common issue With the 4-16 PST. I did not think the 6-24 suffered from this problem. Hopefully Vortex gets you fixed up. They have a great reputation. My 4-16 is going back soon but I fear it's not defective. love the scope for all its bells and whistles but the glass leaves a lot to be desired. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 9:42:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Have the same problem with a 3-9x. Goes out of focus above 4x. Have not called them yet.
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:41:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Hey guys, just wanted to comment on this quick. Looks like some people have already posted some useful troubleshooting techniques on here. I would have suggested some of the same things. Another thing to check would be the torque applied to the ring screws. We recommend 15-17 inch-pounds on most ring styles. It's important not to over-tighten or it's possible to impinge the parallax cell, which can cause very noticeable issues with focusing the parallax.
If anyone has an issue with any Vortex product, please call customer care and they would be more than happy to have a look at anything someone wants to send in. Their number is 800-426-0048 ext. 6 If something is not working as designed, they will definitely take care of it. Many people are very happy with their 4-16x PST, but if someone isn't, customer care is more than happy to have a look at it. It's not impossible that something could be wrong with an individual scope. We are definitely open to that possibility, but the 4-16x PST line has been an excellent seller for us and in no way is it considered faulty or defective as a line. Thanks, guys, and please do not hesitate to call with any further questions. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 2:58:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Having owned several Viper PST scopes, the 4-16 line is terrible as far as glass goes. Sorry Vortex, but it is a known problem with this line. Not Vortex bashing because I own a 2.5-10x32 and a 2.5-10x44 PST models and they are very good optics for the money.
"Milky" and dull would describe the image quality of the two PST 4-16 scopes I've looked through above 12x. Has nothing to do with focus adjustments. I would own a 4-16 PST if my experience had been different. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 4:00:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Not to defend Vortex (I don't even own one of their scopes), but the experience with the 4-16 line, even if true, would not apply to OP's 6-24x50.
I would want to rule out parallax adjustment issues (don't go by labels on the knob), and mirage downrange at a minimum. I will also say again that the eyebox and exit pupil on a 24x scope with a 50mm objective lens is only 2mm. Move your eye even one mm to the left, right, up or down, and you will get very dim image because you have lost 50% of the available light, and move it two mm and the image goes black. That is an optical physics reality that no manufacturer can overcome. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:23:17 PM EDT
[#13]
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered?
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:31:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey guys, just wanted to comment on this quick. Looks like some people have already posted some useful troubleshooting techniques on here. I would have suggested some of the same things. Another thing to check would be the torque applied to the ring screws. We recommend 15-17 inch-pounds on most ring styles. It's important not to over-tighten or it's possible to impinge the parallax cell, which can cause very noticeable issues with focusing the parallax. If anyone has an issue with any Vortex product, please call customer care and they would be more than happy to have a look at anything someone wants to send in. Their number is 800-426-0048 ext. 6 If something is not working as designed, they will definitely take care of it. Many people are very happy with their 4-16x PST, but if someone isn't, customer care is more than happy to have a look at it. It's not impossible that something could be wrong with an individual scope. We are definitely open to that possibility, but the 4-16x PST line has been an excellent seller for us and in no way is it considered faulty or defective as a line. Thanks, guys, and please do not hesitate to call with any further questions. Id like to send mine back. Are you going to give me a shipping label? My 1-4x is great as is my 4-16x under 12x. The issue is I thought I was buying a scope that goes to 16x. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 10:45:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. |
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Posted: 6/30/2015 11:53:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. No, but it is about possible issues within the PST line which the OP may be experiencing. I don't see how bringing up issues from the exact same line of scopes is off point. If we were saying PST vs Razor or Diamondback etc. then sure, it would be off point. I'd assume Vortex sources their PST glass from the same place. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:32:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:42:29 AM EDT
[#18]
The highest magnification Vortex I have is 3-9, but I have been eyeing a 6-24x50 for some time now. Searching reviews on the net, this is the first I have heard of this. Unfortunately I have not come across one of these scopes in the wild to look at in person. I am interested to hear more experiences from actual high magnification owners/users.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:38:58 AM EDT
[#19]
I guess you guys, none of which have a 6-24x50mm PST, realize that you jacked the OP thread and he left. Great job!
Now we'll never know if the suggestions solved his problem. or if it was his scope. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:43:48 AM EDT
[#20]
There was a fairly long thread on snipershide about this and a guy did a review and showed pictures through the scope and you could see how cloudy it was. That was couple of years ago. It seems that thread has gone into the archive and I cant see it anymore. This is where a couple of years ago when I first saw this scope taking heat because of this Vortex was notified then.
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/184446-question-vortex-viper-pst-owners.html There are other customer that have have mentioned this issue in various other threads. http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-428795.html <------- Same issues http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3791890.0 <------- Same Issues http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=211713 <-------- Same Issues http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2304671 <---------- Same Issues In one of those treads Vortex replaced the scope for the customer with a brand new one which is great but no word if the replacement had the same issue. And of course they said they couldn't replicate the issue. I could keep going but should be enough to show its a known issue that Vortex is well aware of. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess you guys, none of which have a 6-24x50mm PST, realize that you jacked the OP thread and he left. Great job! Now we'll never know if the suggestions solved his problem. or if it was his scope. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 10:02:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Try reading the title again. It's not speak if I call about the 6-24. It's about high magnification issues. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 11:24:38 AM EDT
[#23]
If its clear at 100y but fuzzy at 400y its one of two things. Parallax adjustment or just atmospheric haze or mirage. Somedays it doesnt matter if your $3,000 glass is as clear as a diamond, you cant improve on what mother nature is giving you.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 11:28:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If its clear at 100y but fuzzy at 400y its one of two things. Parallax adjustment or just atmospheric haze or mirage. Somedays it doesnt matter if your $3,000 glass is as clear as a diamond, you cant improve on what mother nature is giving you. I'm surprised no one else has said this. The glass clarity was fine at 100 yards when you got it figured out (at the same magnification), but it's blurry at 400? That's a focus/parallax problem. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 11:48:49 AM EDT
[#25]
I can understand that if it was the same for several scopes. But I have taken different scopes with the same power range that cost a lot less and some that are in the same price range on the same day and looking a the same target at the range 100 yards and the only one that is extremely cloudy is the Vortex viper PST 4-16 I have. I have not been able to dupliate this issue with any of my other scopes at any power range whether it be Nikon, Leupold, Zeiss, ect. This seems to be a Vortex PST specific issue.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:16:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try reading the title again. It's not speak if I call about the 6-24. It's about high magnification issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Try reading the title again. It's not speak if I call about the 6-24. It's about high magnification issues. I have no reading comprehension problem whatsoever. What say ye about the very first sentence in the thread? "I was shooting prarrie dogs today at 350-400 yards with my 223 and PST 6-24 SFP scope" I don't jump on sound bites in thread titles. I read the full context. He was trying to get help on a PST 6-24x PST. He was run off. Congrats. His problem is almost certainly parallax adjustment, eye relief and eyebox related. Once again, I don't even own any Vortex scope, but I can read. How does your rant help him? Y'all just keep pissing to each other about your different scope. Take it up with Vortex or start your own thread. As best as I can tell, there have been no reported problems of this sort with the 50mm objective lens 6-24x PST. You've run off OP and now everyone else, it seems, trying to identify and help with his problem. Have fun griping to yourselves. Any sympathy you may have had for your different problem is gone. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:06:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If its clear at 100y but fuzzy at 400y its one of two things. Parallax adjustment or just atmospheric haze or mirage. Somedays it doesnt matter if your $3,000 glass is as clear as a diamond, you cant improve on what mother nature is giving you. True, but this is a somewhat well known issue with PST scopes. Higher magnification just isn't very desirable with the PST glass. SWFA even warned me of this before I purchased. I have two. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:55:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no reading comprehension problem whatsoever. What say ye about the very first sentence in the thread? "I was shooting prarrie dogs today at 350-400 yards with my 223 and PST 6-24 SFP scope" I don't jump on sound bites in thread titles. I read the full context. He was trying to get help on a PST 6-24x PST. He was run off. Congrats. His problem is almost certainly parallax adjustment, eye relief and eyebox related. Once again, I don't even own any Vortex scope, but I can read. How does your rant help him? Y'all just keep pissing to each other about your different scope. Take it up with Vortex or start your own thread. As best as I can tell, there have been no reported problems of this sort with the 50mm objective lens 6-24x PST. You've run off OP and now everyone else, it seems, trying to identify and help with his problem. Have fun griping to yourselves. Any sympathy you may have had for your different problem is gone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many people have to complain about the same issue before vortex actually belives there is an issue? Reamber the rule of 10 from buisness class and thats very conservative. If vortex is un able to fix my scope will a refund be offered? This thread is NOT about the 4-16. Maybe take that discussion to another thread, off line to the toll free number suggested, or to the Vortex industry page? Are you having a problem with a 6-24x50? Let's try to focus (pun intended) on that scope and OP's issue. Try reading the title again. It's not speak if I call about the 6-24. It's about high magnification issues. I have no reading comprehension problem whatsoever. What say ye about the very first sentence in the thread? "I was shooting prarrie dogs today at 350-400 yards with my 223 and PST 6-24 SFP scope" I don't jump on sound bites in thread titles. I read the full context. He was trying to get help on a PST 6-24x PST. He was run off. Congrats. His problem is almost certainly parallax adjustment, eye relief and eyebox related. Once again, I don't even own any Vortex scope, but I can read. How does your rant help him? Y'all just keep pissing to each other about your different scope. Take it up with Vortex or start your own thread. As best as I can tell, there have been no reported problems of this sort with the 50mm objective lens 6-24x PST. You've run off OP and now everyone else, it seems, trying to identify and help with his problem. Have fun griping to yourselves. Any sympathy you may have had for your different problem is gone. Rant........I've praised their1-4 PST and the 4-16 @ lower powers. Are you the OP or moderator? Tell you what, you are the one OT and if you have a continued problem with me, take it to IM or the PIT. Till then I feel free to comment on my high power issues with a scope by the same company in the same product line. 
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:26:09 PM EDT
[#29]
We recommend 15-17 inch-pounds on most ring styles. It's important not to over-tighten or it's possible to impinge the parallax cell, which can cause very noticeable issues with focusing the parallax. The above, I'm thinking more people then not really haven't got a clue on how tight 15/17 INCH pounds really is, we saw the issue with guys breaking screws and stripping threads out in different thread, 17 inch pounds is less then 1.5 ft pounds I know it bite a buudy in the ass and he turns wrenches for a living, Vortex replaced the scope and let him know he screwed the pooch mounting the old scope |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 9:01:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The above, I'm thinking more people then not really haven't got a clue on how tight 15/17 INCH pounds really is, we saw the issue with guys breaking screws and stripping threads out in different thread, 17 inch pounds is less then 1.5 ft pounds I know it bite a buudy in the ass and he turns wrenches for a living, Vortex replaced the scope and let him know he screwed the pooch mounting the old scope Quote HistoryQuoted:
We recommend 15-17 inch-pounds on most ring styles. It's important not to over-tighten or it's possible to impinge the parallax cell, which can cause very noticeable issues with focusing the parallax. The above, I'm thinking more people then not really haven't got a clue on how tight 15/17 INCH pounds really is, we saw the issue with guys breaking screws and stripping threads out in different thread, 17 inch pounds is less then 1.5 ft pounds I know it bite a buudy in the ass and he turns wrenches for a living, Vortex replaced the scope and let him know he screwed the pooch mounting the old scope I can definitely see this being a problem for some. In my case I used to build a lot of rifles as an 07/02 SOT and used Seekonk torque wrenches on my scope. I still experience the high mag issues reported here. |
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