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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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Posted: 11/20/2014 1:55:00 AM EDT
I've got a RRA tactical entry with the tactical carry handle, so its not as high as the regular carry handle. Getting ready to order me a scope and confused on what height mount to get, low, high or extra high. Looking at the Burris extreme, Is this a good mount to go with, dont plan on removing the scope any so a QD is not necessary and if so what height is recommended.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 2:09:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Those should work fine.

Keep in mind that even though you won't be QDing the scope if you remove the carry handle you'll also lose your zero.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 2:19:45 AM EDT
[#2]
I plan on keeping the carry handle and mounting the scope directly to the carry handle since the rear sight is mounted to it, just need to know what height to mount to get. Its my first AR so not sure about co-witness. Seems like I wouldnt be a fan of it but not sure, rather have the scope clear the front sight.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 6:55:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I plan on keeping the carry handle and mounting the scope directly to the carry handle since the rear sight is mounted to it, just need to know what height to mount to get. Its my first AR so not sure about co-witness. Seems like I wouldnt be a fan of it but not sure, rather have the scope clear the front sight.
View Quote


you won't be co-witnessing with a magnified optic, so don't worry about that.  What you should worry about, though, is selling that carry handle, because its meant to use with a red-dot mounted really low.  Otherwise, you'll end up with something like this:



as opposed to this:





ETA: typo
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 8:05:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Lose the carry handle if you plan on mounting a magnified optic. Hell,  lose it if you plan on mounting any optic.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 12:08:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Topic Moved
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 6:12:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Dont like the looks of that mounted on that handle for sure so I guess I'm losing the carry handle, glad I asked before I bought. Was planning on getting the Vortex crossfire II 1x4x24 scope. So, if I lose the carry handle what height mount should I get??
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 10:33:27 PM EDT
[#7]
I would opt for a unimount designed for the AR platform. What's your budget?
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 12:07:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Hardly an expert on optics as they apply to AR platforms.  Where I come from with bolt rifles, the general rule is that the closer the optic/scope is to the receiver/barrel, the better.  I would have thought the same would hold true for an AR platform...all debates about unique AR optics and rail components for specific situations aside.  My two AR's are Armalite, but I suspect the principal is the same for most others.  I came across one of the Armalite technical notes on their site while trying to learn all the nuances about my models and AR's in particular.  Technical note #92 covers installing a scope on an AR.  Allegedly after a good deal of testing and comparison, the tech note claims that 1.45" from the top of the picatinny rail to the center of the optic turned out to be the optimum height for optic mounting.  My .243 AR-10 has a 3-9X42 scope mounted as close to the rail and handguard as possible in traditional bolt rifle fashion...less than that 1.45".  My .308 AR has a 2-7X35 mounted on a Burris P.E.P.R. one-piece mount almost exactly at the 1.45" height.  These rifles are new, and I won't get to zero and test them until next week...weather permitting.  So, what are the opinions of the more experienced folks here?  I notice most rifles pictured on the site have optics mounted in higher manner like my .308.  Any truth to that inch and a half or so recommendation in that tech note?  The question seems to fit what the OP is asking also.
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 12:28:32 PM EDT
[#9]
I like to mount my optics at the same height the Irons were designed.  I look for 1.5" to centerline of the optic. My preference is Larue or Bobro offset mounts that will provide the proper eye relief for the scope I'm using.  I shoot NTCH (Nose To Charging Handle) so I normally get the extended mounts.        
 
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 1:18:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I like to mount my optics at the same height the Irons were designed.  I look for 1.5" to centerline of the optic. My preference is Larue or Bobro offset mounts that will provide the proper eye relief for the scope I'm using.  I shoot NTCH (Nose To Charging Handle) so I normally get the extended mounts.          
View Quote


Since I haven't owned an iron sight AR model I didn't know about the 1.5" deal.  Sounds quite close to the 1.45" in the Armalite tech note.  That tech note never addressed why the conventional bolt rifle pursuit of mounting the optic as close to the barrel/receiver as possible might not apply to an AR platform.  That's the area I'd like to hear more wisdom/experience as to how it applies to an AR.
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 1:47:47 PM EDT
[#11]
The 1.5" from top of the rail to centerline of the scope is needed because of both your iron sights and that the AR stock comb is much higher than on bolt guns.  That is so that when you put your cheek to the stock and look down the barrel, your eye lines up with the AR sights.  Even with those sights removed, your eye is still at that high 1.5"(plus or minus a little) distance above the top of the rail.  So, the centerline of the scope needs to line up with your eye.  This is much different than with bolt guns, where the iron sights are down close to the barrel and where you want to keep the scope as low as possible.  Won't work on an AR.

There is a second issue and that is the short upper rail on the AR.   It is too short for most scopes to be mounted in standard one piece rings on each side of your turret, because to get proper eye relief (about 3-4" between the back of the scope and your eye), the scope has to be moved forward and the front ring will be ahead of your rail, out over the handguard with no place to attach.  This is why we use cantilever mounts,  The cheapest that work might be the Nikon P-mounts. These are two separate cantilevered mounts, each slanted forward. They are about $50 for the pair.   For a fixed mount, the Leupold Mark 2 IMS is a lot better.  It is a one piece cantilever that sells at street price for about $100.   QD scope mounts that reliably return to zero are a good bit more expensive, but would let you use backup iron sights by removing the scope and have it return to zero when put back on the rail.  Those mouunts, typically made by LaRue, ADM or Bobro, are going to set you back between $200 and $250, though.
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 2:01:13 PM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Since I haven't owned an iron sight AR model I didn't know about the 1.5" deal.  Sounds quite close to the 1.45" in the Armalite tech note.  That tech note never addressed why the conventional bolt rifle pursuit of mounting the optic as close to the barrel/receiver as possible might not apply to an AR platform.  That's the area I'd like to hear more wisdom/experience as to how it applies to an AR.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

I like to mount my optics at the same height the Irons were designed.  I look for 1.5" to centerline of the optic. My preference is Larue or Bobro offset mounts that will provide the proper eye relief for the scope I'm using.  I shoot NTCH (Nose To Charging Handle) so I normally get the extended mounts.          




Since I haven't owned an iron sight AR model I didn't know about the 1.5" deal.  Sounds quite close to the 1.45" in the Armalite tech note.  That tech note never addressed why the conventional bolt rifle pursuit of mounting the optic as close to the barrel/receiver as possible might not apply to an AR platform.  That's the area I'd like to hear more wisdom/experience as to how it applies to an AR.

The AR uses a straight line recoil system, the bolt carrier cycles under your chin inside the butt stock.  You need more height to be comfortable.  A bolt gun you move your cheek and slide the bolt back where your face was, so you are in the comfortable height range when you go as low as possible.



 
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 2:02:56 PM EDT
[#13]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The 1.5" from top of the rail to centerline of the scope is needed because of both your iron sights and that the AR stock comb is much higher than on bolt guns.  That is so that when you put your cheek to the stock and look down the barrel, your eye lines up with the AR sights.  Even with those sights removed, your eye is still at that high 1.5"(plus or minus a little) distance above the top of the rail.  So, the centerline of the scope needs to line up with your eye.  This is much different than with bolt guns, where the iron sights are down close to the barrel and where you want to keep the scope as low as possible.  Won't work on an AR.



There is a second issue and that is the short upper rail on the AR.   It is too short for most scopes to be mounted in standard one piece rings on each side of your turret, because to get proper eye relief (about 3-4" between the back of the scope and your eye), the scope has to be moved forward and the front ring will be ahead of your rail, out over the handguard with no place to attach.  This is why we use cantilever mounts,  The cheapest that work might be the Nikon P-mounts. These are two separate cantilevered mounts, each slanted forward. They are about $50 for the pair.   For a fixed mount, the Leupold Mark 2 IMS is a lot better.  It is a one piece cantilever that sells at street price for about $100.   QD scope mounts that reliably return to zero are a good bit more expensive, but would let you use backup iron sights by removing the scope and have it return to zero when put back on the rail.  Those mouunts, typically made by LaRue, ADM or Bobro, are going to set you back between $200 and $250, though.
View Quote
ADM's can be had for ~$125 with .mil discount.  $150 or so without.  Aero Precision has a pretty nice one piece mount.  Primary Arms has a good extended one piece for about $60.  Almost all of these are designed around the AR and will have ~1.5" to centerline while providing needed forward offset.



 
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