Does anyone know why? Here's my reasoning:

It seems (just from pictures) that US troops are equipped with the ACOG or a reflex red dot of some kind. For the latter, you obviously don't need BUIS at all for close in stuff, but for someone running an ACOG with a minimum of 4x, how do you use that in close quarters or urban settings? Same with a 1-4x power scope like I see here on RECCE builds...how's that supposed to work close in and fast, even at 1x power?

So I guess I have two questions..

1. How in the world do they use a 4x scope in urban combat...I guess they're really well trained?

2. Why have 45° irons not seen wider use outside of competition or civilian use? Do they stick out too much and get stuck on gear?

Just some food for discussion. Forgive me if this has been addressed before...I find this site/forum uniquely hard to navigate.

A lot of guys I knew had no BUIS to be honest.
Have you ever shot with an ACOG?  Where did you serve?

It's not ambidextrous, and optics are pretty damn reliable.






 

Oops..

I haven't served...sorry for the confusion. I've edited the post to make it clearer.

(And to those who have...many thanks!)

I've never shot at close quarters wi an ACOG, but I hear it's not that hard to use up close. My guess would be not worth the money for the limited utility of,the sights.  Probably more needed on a rifle with a higher mag scope, like the M14 setup in an EBR chassis. But even there, it's not going to be used that often.

put a man sized target in front of you at 25yds, remove all optics/sights from your rifle, pull trigger. bet you still pepper it.

ETA: as someone who was both combat arms (19k) and signal (31s) I can't imagine the headache of teaching non combat MOS s how to zero and use offset sights. lots of folks in the military have little interest in firearms outside of qualification days.

Funny you mention that.
Last week end I was filming a job with a female actor who played a cop.

She was going one about having been a Marine in Desert Storm and how well she did with handgun.
I mentioned that I had a Beretta 92 Desert Storm commerative pistol.
She didn't know what it was...

Said she qualified with a "9 mil."

Using whatever illuminated optic you have, cover up the objective lens. Leave the eyepiece open so you can see the lit reticle, but no picture as the front is covered. Now, keep both eyes open and aim at various object at short range. I bet you'd be surprised by how accurate you're able to shoot.

You can actually use the fiber optic and the channel it's in on the top of the RCO as a defacto sight for close in work.But the BAC is the order of the day for it.

Good info above. The offset sights can be a snag just waiting to happen.One reason why you don't see them on rifles used for law enforcement.  As others have said, when clearing a room , home, building etc...... at close quarters there isn't much of a need for optics, point and shoot can do the job just fine. The idea that every soldier is a rifleman is long gone. My son is in the USAF as a Crew Chief on the BUFF's, in basic they had a one day class on how to field strip an AR, clean and reassemble. They made them do it blind folded at the end of the class, my son knew more about the AR than the instructor, and the instructor admitted it, lol!!!!!! The next day they had some range time, under 200 rnds at variable distances and that was it, and no handgun training at all. As a CC on the BUFF's the likely hood of him being in a combat situation isn't likely, he isn't even issued a rifle for his MOS. Not sure I agree with not training every soldier to be a rifleman, but it is what it is and my son has his own firearms and he is always taking classes, so I don't worry about him to much. I am sure a lot of it came down to cost. The all mighty dollar says why train a soldier to be decent with a rifle and side arm if his MOS would not be likely to put him in a combat roll?

CQB with a 4x isn't bad. All it takes is practice.

As far as offset iron-sights.....they add to much bulk for not much utility. ACOGs are about as reliable as they come, so guys that have buis on their ACOG equipped guns usually only have them because they came with it.

Guys that use Eotechs and Aimpoints tend to be the same way. Lot's of unit SOPs require buis on rifles. Keep in mind warfare is a team effort. If somehow your rifle sight gets destroyed (and by some miracle your rifle still fires)....you have your buddies to cover for you.

 

This.  It is lightning fast.  I've been experimenting with this and a Leupold 3-9x40mm Patrol tactical scope with Firedot reticle.  I can close the front lens cap and just put the dot on a close range target, inside 25 yards with both eyes open and hit within 3-4" of point of aim every time.  Amazing discovery - "occluded eye" shooting.  ACOG's variation of it is called Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) which does not involve closing the front cap.   So, I leave the cap down for normal use and only raise it when shooting beyond 25 yards.

This has changed my mind about the need for auxiliary offset sights either irons or red dot when running a scope of that type with illuminated reticle.

Gee.. I did not know that the Army did not train Infantry solders to shoot with protective masks any more (or did you all just forget). The 45 degree off-set RTS type sight would be FAR MORE accurate with a mask or just staring over the top of your ACOG.

If you do have a problem with your ACOG you will need a back-up sight; RIGHT NOW. Or you would not have left the FOB with defective equipment.

The real reason is the traditionalist in the Army. That is just too new for them. It took them a few years but they did turn the M16 into a target rifle (M16 A2). See how well that worked out. Well also there is the $ thing and the current contractors making BUIS.

It would be good it the RTS unit would come with a left hand model rear sight for the 11% of left handers.

Because their rifles have A2 front sights.

Because Trix are for Kids.

acogs are not difficult to use up close and neither are 1-4s. Most are designed now a days to not just be a mil mil duplex, but to be a reticle that can be used for multiple scenarios. In the Navy I used an eotech exps3 and when i realized my astigmatism made that impossible my unit supplied me with an acog. Once you are used to it, it isn't a big deal to shoot within 50 yards at that magnification, and most of us always believed anything that took out an acog, probably left us unable to fight anyways. For the 1-4 there are some really handy reticles out there. MY SWFA has a large outside ring that  should be about chest sized if running it in close quarters type issues. Get center mass in the circle and pull the trigger. Always remember that combat accuracy is much different that target shooting. You just want to hit center mass and make the threat stop.

If I have a problem with my ACOG it is because a round hit my optic, I was blown up, or I fell from the top of a building onto my optic. If I am still alive and kicking at that point I can just walk rounds onto target, grab another rifle, or start helping the 240 or 249 gunner as an AG.

The fact of the matter is optics have become so advanced that redundant systems are just that....redundant. More weight and cost for little added benefit. Soldiers conduct (or should) PMCS on all weapons systems and optics. Yes shit breaks. Does it mean you are combat ineffective? Absolutely not. The beauty of it is that a soldier could buy themselves some offset sights and slap them onto their rifle if they really wanted.

no use of the visible laser on the peq15?

I'm only marginally trained at best and run my 3x ACOG with no issues, even on 3 yard drills.  Its really not hard at all.

I used mine



 

My guess would be that the BUIS would first add more weight, and second would be one more thing to break or get hooked on something. I have seen ACOGs beat to crap and still hold a zero, dropped, bounced off rocks etc... There just seems to be no need for BUIS. Shooting a close range with 4x is not bad, not ideal but doable. At anything closer than 25yds probably not a lot of aiming, and just more a of a point and shoot situation.

Hell yeah. Mine was on a KAC ras so zeroing May seem questionable but it certainly worked.

 

It is not tier 1 approved and not cool.

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