To each their own.

I quickly found the VCOG leaps and bounds better than the Mark 6 1-6x. I got rid of my Mark 6 without hesitation shortly after I got familiar with my VCOG.

Interesting to hear. My experiences with Trijicon products (Accupoint and ACOGs) ranks them very high in my book in terms of clarity and other fine glass aspects. They don't put out junk. I'm still very much considering a VCOG for my recce build but will have to get some first hand experience first.

After I looked through a VCOG I came to the opinion the Mk6 was leaps and bounds better.  Wider field of view, clearer glass, brighter illumination, ability to range with any of the reticles and dial in your dope but I guess everyone has a different opinion.  I'm glad I didn't bite on the DSG arms sale over the 4th of July holiday.

The 34mm tube of the Mark 6 gives it some FOV, sure, but its benefits pretty much ended there for me. For someone looking for a true precision/ranging reticle, I could see having a preference for the Mark 6 there as well, but that's not high on my list for a 1-6x optic.

I was looking for a 1-6x that was a true do anything practical optic. Be super quick and easy to use for close and rapid engagements up close on 1x, and in any environment from bright daylight to pitch black darkness. Then also be able to adequately engage and identify targets out to 200 yards and well beyond with the same benefits.

Frankly, a couple of the aspects you found superior about the Mark 6 have me scratching my head. First, I in no way found the Mark 6 reticle brighter than the VCOG. On top of that, the VCOG is FAR superior when illuminated. The Mark 6 has a sensitive illuminated reticle - it requires ideal head position for it to function properly without flickering or dimming out. The illuminated VCOG reticle is every bit as forgiving as any RDS even.

The VCOG is a true CQB optic, IMO, and the Mark 6 is not. The eye relief on the VCOG is insanely long, forgiving, and blows away any other magnified optic I've ever used in that department. I've run the Elcan, NF 1-4x, S and B CQB short dot, Mark 6 1-6x, VCOG, and a few of the other it 1-x optics out there. For true 1x illuminated both eyes open RDS type shooting and applications, I've found the VCOG to be in its own realm. I can't stress that enough either. I don't even find there to be a close second in this department when compared to the competition.

That's pretty much why the VCOG is as good as it gets for me. I didn't purchase the VCOG for a long range precision optic. I purchased it for a true do any and everything optic.

Honestly, I had yet to encounter a 1-x optic I'd truly opt to trust my life with grabbing in a defensive scenario until I ran a VCOG.

Don't get me wrong, I'd more than be able to adequately defend myself in a defensive CQB scenario with any of the other optics I've mentioned, but I'd be losing a bit of an edge over if I had an RDS equipped rig instead. Though I truly find the VCOG to be nearly on par with an RDS in rapid CQB environments.

The eye relief, illumination and reticle is unrivaled in that department compared to any other 1-x optic on the market IMO.

And it's nothing to be taken lightly at distance either.

If I were looking for a more dedicated 200 plus yard optic with some added versatility, I'd opt for the Mark 6. For a do it all optic, the VCOG is tough to beat.

I found the VCOG to be like looking through a straw compared to similarly priced optics such as the Z6i and K16i. The VCOG was heavier, had significantly dimmer illumination, was impossible to focus for 6X AND 1X use (you have to pick one...do you want it clear on 1X or clear on 6X? It won't be good on both), and had a noticeably less forgiving eye-box than the other two.

In my opinion, the  VCOG is junk riding on the coat-tails of the ACOG. If anyone else had put out such a piss poor performer, they would be ridiculed incessantly. My main complaint is the blurry sight picture. You can have a reasonably clear 1X or 6X, but once you dial it in, then change magnification, it's blurry on the other end of the magnification spectrum. Not that it was the best to begin with compared to others, but it is "usable" on that one magnification. The other, will give you a headache.

I've never used a Z6i or K16i, but as said, for every 1-x optic I actually have used, the VCOG has been in its own realm on 1x - especially with eye relief.

I'm not sure if you looked through a lemon or not, but your experiences differ from mine. And mind you, I've only looked through one VCOG myself - the one I own.

If my VCOG is focused on 1x, yes, I need to make some adjustments when I crank it up to 6x if I want ideal clarity. But it's far from some blurry piece of shit when focused on 1x and then cranked up to 6x, and vice versa.

And mind you, I was never even a big fan of Trijicon optics prior to my experiences with the VCOG. Before I had my VCOG, I had a Mark 6 1-6x, and thought it was as good as it gets - that opinion quickly changed after I acquired my VCOG though.

To each their own.

Check out a Z6i or K16i. It has none of the issues the VCOG does, illumination is far superior, and the eyebox is much larger. You will be amazed if the VCOG is acceptable to you.

IMO the VCOG, for that price point, doesnt reflect what you should be getting. I'd save $1000 and buy the vortex, or stay at that price point and get the Kahles.

Exactly. The VCOG has a crappy tube design, second-rate illumination, and you have to change the focus of the doipter to maintain the clarity of the reticle and background when you change magnification. How in the ever-living shit did anyone decide it belonged in the same arena as Khales and Swarovski's similarly priced options (aside from DSG's sale) is beyond me.

It looks cool online, and seems like a good idea, and I was initially very interested. But then I got hands-on with one and observed the above. The Razor HD Gen II 1-6X I looked at at the same time was a MUCH better buy even if they cost the same. The VCOG is just a huge swing and a miss.

You have to focus the diopter at different magnifications?

That is a fatal flaw.

12 Gauge, how much time do you have with the Vcog?  Where did you even look at one of these?  I find it hard to beleive based on the false information you've spread throughout this thread that you have even held a Vcog in your hand let alone compared it to any the other optics you find so much more superior to it.

Myself and the other owners of this optic find your opinions to be way out of line with what people who actually own this optic have found.  I don't believe that too many of the guys here who plunked down the $2k for this optic didn't look at the other scopes you've mentioned and just decided to throw their money away on an inferior product anyway.

I think more likely we have a troll spreading ridiculousness with little to no expereince on what they are spouting as gospel.

Second rate illumination?  Second to what?  It is the brightest 6x on the market.  I have never heard anyone before mention that the Vcog lacked in brightness.  It is practically blinding is low light and the illumination is very sharp.  Much sharper at the brightest settings than what I found the Z6i to be.  Even the quickest of google image reults proves you have no idea what you are talking about.  I am not saying that the Swaro is not bright enough, it is, but not brighter than the Vcog and not nearly as sharp at the brightest settings at 6x.  

The Vcog is too heavy you say?  The Razor HD gen 2 weighs more than the Vcog does so what logic is there in saying the Vcog is too heavy but that the Razor is somehow better?

You also complained about the Vcogs eye relief.  How can you say you have looked through any number of scopes and the Vcog is like "looking through a straw".  Pure foolishness.  It is not a RDS but it is the closest thing I have seen in a 6x.

Finally, before you post again about your vast expereince with the Z6i, the K16i and the Vcog why dont you tell us all where you were able to compare these three optics?

I drove all over DFW when I was looking at 6X optics and found only one place that had a Swaro in stock and nobody had either the vcog or a K16i to look through so I am wondering how you found all of these high end optics in stock for comparison veiwing in Louisiana?  Please tell us where so we can all have a look for ourselves.

I'm not looking to argue back and forth and ruin this thread.  I just think you are spreading allot of misinformation on a thread that was intended for Vcog owners.  As a satisfied Vcog owner I will say that I did allot of research before I decided on this scope and I still feel it is the best 1-6X on the market for CQB and longer range target identification.  I could not find a Kahles K16i to look through but I hear that they are similar but slightly lesser versions of a Swarovski and I did not like the Z6i as much as the Vcog though I did find it to be a very nice optic.  
In my opinion the Vortex and Leupold are not in the same class as the Trij and the Swaro both in terms of glass clarity, eye relief and illumination.  This is coming from someone who spent allot of time with all four optics and then plunked down the $2k for the Vcog.  Opinions often vary but it is far too common these days for Hyundai drivers to troll Bentley owners because they once valet parked one for 30 seconds and found it lacking and therefore "garbage".

His comments about the subpar illumination of the VCOG are what had me scratching my head as well.

The VCOG had by far the brightest illumination of anything I compared it to. It's crazy bright. No one could knock the VCOG's illumination. You couldn't possibly even need or want brighter illumination.

And no one could knock the VCOG's eye relief either. It's insanely long and forgiving. Once again, much superior to anything I've compared it to.

Those two statements alone make me highly question his intentions here, and also his experiences with a VCOG.

This is the second Vcog thread I have seen started by people who are looking for information from Vcog owners and expereinced users  and the actual owners of these optics are very satisfied with them but the haters flood the thread to quickly bash them.  Why is it that people with the least amount of knowledge on a subject seem to think they they need to say the most about it?    

I guess they must have heard from a friend who has a friend who has one and doesn't like it.

My advice is to anyone who has the means and is actually in the market for a high quality1-6x is to go out and try to look at all of them.  There really are very few to look at in this niche and if you are looking objectively I doubt you will find that any of these optics are garbage despite what the internet trolls might say.

I have 4 ACOGs.  My two favorite scope companies are Aimpoint and Trijicon.

I want to know if it is true that the user has to focus the diopter when they change magnification?  

The reticle is perfectly usable across all magnifications and the full range of the diopter.

The diopter is for fine-tuning the focus of a scope and is often misunderstood by inexpereinced shooters.

Okay, please explain the two in blue, lol


No, I don't need weeks of use to tell you which one is brighter, has the best focus, flattest image, and largest eyebox. I'm capable of doing that in a few minutes. Also, you over-paid by about $600. DSG was selling VCOG's for around $13XX a while back. Which is MUCH more in-line with the actual value of the optic you bought.

I use the diopter to attain focus of the reticle and target on the same plane. They are both crisp when this is done properly. Neither is "fuzzy". With the Z6i and K16i, once done, you are focused. At 1X, and at 6X, and all in  between, the reticle and target are on the same "plane" and are both crisp. With the VCOG, you must re-focus every time you change magnification. I started this thread, FYI to the poster above you, and I got hands-on with the optics, and this was my result. Here is a Google image for our Googlemaster. It accurately depicts the VCOG's illumination in full sunlight on "high", as compared to what I also saw. I was not there when this photo was taken of course, but that's about how the reticle looks in direct bright sunlight when turned as bright as it will go. Completely functional, but not as bright as the K16i or the Swaro:

Consider that I started the thread. I let it ride until I had handled all optics in question. I reported my findings. Simple as that.

Also, it seems that unlike this guy (red added for emphasis):


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?156023-TRIJICON-VCOG-REVIEW-AND-EXPERIENCES&p=1984429#post1984429
I discovered all that he is complaining about in just a half hour with the 4 optics at a store. WIN FOR ME! I feel bad for him. It seems he found all the flaws I did, except it took him a few range sessions. You will find my post detailing this above his. I am WS6 on that forum. If you know how to properly "break down" the performance envelope of an optic, you can find out about the illumination, eyebox, flatness of focus, etc. VERY quickly. It doesn't need to take a few range-sessions or weeks or whatever of test-driving it.

So...ride the fanboy bus all you want. I don't own anything from Trijicon or the others (well, that's a lie, I have a few pistols with Trijicons, and I have owned a few of the ACOG's in the past). I have no reason to bag on or root for any of the companies therefor. I'm just telling you what I encountered when I examined the optics discussed. Sorry it sticks in a few craws.

I'm out and about right now, so no time to give a detailed response, but that illumination picture is bullshit, and doesn't even vaguely depict the VCOG's illumination.

The VCOG is nearly RDS bright. Nearly as bright as my Aimpoints on high settings.

Then yours differs from the two I tried.

Like I said.  You handled all of them at a secret store that can't be named (and doesn't exist) and without owning any of the 1-6x optics you claim to be an expert on and claim to know better than the actual owners of said optics.  I rest my case.  Any real person with the cash to buy one of these will draw their own conclusions and I doubt they will mirror your limited experience.  Enjoy trolling Vcog threads.  I'm sure the owners of these fine optics value your expert opinion formed on threads you've dug up on the internet and the one time you got to fondle one at the store that can not be named for fear that it's employees who let you touch the optics might be killed for sharing their like minded opinions. ;)

Troll on my friend.

I have trained with some of the guys who work there. It's not my place to tie their names and place of business to words meant just for me. If you think that this is out of line...what do I care?
Ironically I just linked you to a guy who bought one who does mirror my conclusions.
Nevermind your case. Rest your baseless presumptions about people you know nothing about.

I'm not liking some of what I'm hearing so far but the benefits of the one piece mount eliminating the hassle of having to deal with scope rings still might push me over the edge to get one.

If it came out with a green reticle I would have to have one yesterday.

I was frothing at the mouth for the VCOG when the pictures and specs came out, I thought the same thing as everyone else with
a ton of time behind ACOG's, this was the perfect optic. Unfortunately the first thing that doused my enthusiasm was the sheer
weight, after that the glass wasn't even in the same ballpark as the premiums, and the reticles are the final dealbreaker.

I expect to see a lot more sales like DSG ran, in the $1,200-1,500 range it makes sense, priced the same as the K16i is just an
insult to the educated consumer. And speaking of the K16i, if anyone is preparing to plunk down over $2k on this VCOG, find
a way to demo a K16i, it's the benchmark in this segment for a reason, actually several reasons.

The Integrated mount was what initially attracted me as well. It's a nice feature. The actual performance of the optic killed It for me though. Try before you buy for sure on this one.

I suggest that some read through this thread from the very beginning. There's little negative to be said about the VCOG overall, and most of it is solely attributed to one individual who solely looked through one, and does not own, nor has ever used one.

12_gauge, mind you, that wasn't meant to totally discredit your opinion on the subject, as I too have formed opinions of some optics solely by window shopping them. But I get the feeling some new viewers to this thread are seeing all of your recent posts, and lumping them up as some general consensus. And that's clearly not the case with the overall feedback from the beginning of this thread.

The way I see it is that there are a couple guys who have merely looked through VCOGs knocking them, and a couple guys who have used them praising them.

Frankly, I've yet to encounter anyone who actually owns a VCOG that has knocked the optic. And that's in reference to far more than just this thread.

I got my VCOG for less than $1500 shipped from DSG. Considering they are even sold out at retailers who stock them for over $2k, I have little doubt I could sell mine for at the very least as much as I paid for it. I solely mention this to point out that I'm not just shining praise on the VCOG to justify my purchase or anything related to that.

I'm high on the VCOG because I find it to be the best all around 1-x optic available. Though I'll admit I would like to get some time behind a Kahles. Yet that far from discounts the fact that I've found the VCOG superior overall to every other 1-x optic I actually have used.

And people want to bring up endusers' opinions? Last I checked, Pat Rogers and his team have been running VCOGs through the ringer. Some may have heard of Pat... Those guys have great things to say.

So far from what I have read is a 50/50 opinion on the VCOG.

Last I spoke with Andrew Bobro he was addressing it/already has by now maybe.

I run my VCOG as far forward on the upper receiver as possible. With a SOPMOD stock in the third position out, the eye relief is a dream.

I can't stress enough how this is what most sells me on the VCOG. I nearly feel like I'm running an RDS on 1x. No other variable optic has ever given me those results. Not even close.

Pat Rogers beat all around the bush when I asked him about the vcog. I looked through two and now see why. I asked him questions about it that I personally found unimpressive answers for when I messed with a couple. Has he published an official opinion of the optic? I talked with him when he got It and he kept saying "give me 6 months" and refused to answer even questions about illumination. So...what has he said ? My opinion at the time was he was being quiet about It because It to wasn't so hot.

Now, I have linked you to a few people who own and don't like their vcog very much. Those are a few more datapoints.

Eta: I belive pat rogers only has 1 vcog.

That is exactly how I run mine.

Again, I urge people who are in the market for a 1-6x to go out and try them all.

This thread is not 50/50.  It is 100% approved by owners of these fine optics and only criticized by a guy who may or may not have held one once for a few minutes at some unicorn gun shop in Lousianna that stocks every high end scope that nobody else can but inexplicably insists that its customers never speak of them.... Okay bro.  Sure, sounds plausible.  At least you're consistent in your ridiculousness.

I think intelligent people with the money to spend on something like this will do their own homework and when they do I am sure that they will realize that none of these optics are junk and they each have their own merits.

Anyone who dismisses the Vcog based a few inexperienced opinions that don't hold up against real owners experiences are doing themselves a huge disservice.

Dude, just stop.

Pat Rogers told you nothing, Andrew Bobro said this. Lol

You can't name the mythical LGS where you looked at all these fine optics but you can name drop everyone else you've ever met.

Hold on a second guys,  I have Larry Vickers on the phone.  What's that Larry?  You like the Vcog?  Hold on Larry, I have Chris Kyle calling me from the afterlife with an opinion on this scope as well.  What's that Chris?  I'll take your silence as a sign you love it too.

Too funny bro.

Vickers had to send his VCOG back to Trijicon due to zero shift issues that showed up earlier, not even sure he has it back so I doubt he'd even give you his opinion yet.

Right. There you go again pretending that you know who I am and who I do and don't communicate with. I believe It was you who brought pat rogers into this.
I could go hunt down and screen shot the conversations. I could try to "prove" things to you, but really...you offer me zero benefit even if I impressed you. It's a lose/lose for me.

People can look at the vcog themselves and handle the K16i and z6i as well. Sorry if you couldn't find em. Anyway, proof is In the pudding. People now know the main complaints and can judge for themselves.

I read this. I have not heard of others having the issue. Vickers is very accessible though if someone wants to ask him.

That's a serious amount of money, but I have been thinking about getting into three gun and the VCOG looks like it would be ideally tailored for that environment.

What stinks is that it is one of those investments I'd have to make without actually being able to hold the thing and play with it first.  I guess the only thing giving me pause is the eye relief...really wish I could see it for myself on how much eye relief it allows.  I currently have an Aimpoint T-1.

You pick up on sarcasm about as well as you evaluate optics.

What happened to you anyway?

Did Gary Trijicon take your mother out for a nice seafood dinner and never call her again?

Is that why you so passionately bash an optic you have no experience with?

Seriously man, what's wrong with you?  

How people can get their kicks from trolling multiple message boards acting like an expert on something because one time for a few minutes someone let them hold something is really a mystery to me.

I see now that your dying breath will be spent bashing this scope that you touched once but I'll never understand why.

Good luck with that.  I hope it brings you joy spreading misinformation based on extremely limited experience.

If anyone wants some info from someone who has put some actual bullets down range with one of these they can PM me and I'll be glad to share my actual experience with them about this product.

Are they available anywhere else for $1,500? Just looked at DSG and they are listed at $2,300.  

I would suggest that you find someone who will let you put in a bit of time with their optics. If you plan on getting into 3-gun...you obviously are able to attend matches. So go and see what you can see, hold what you can hold, etc.

Did you join this forum just to post in my thread?

I guess you could ask yourself this...why would I say what I've said about the VCOG?

-I do not work for a competitor of Trijicon's.
-I did not buy a variable 1-6X optic yet.
-The VCOG and the K16i/Z6i are all within $100 of each other, so it's not "price hating" or monetarily motivated preference.
-I got to look through them all back-to-back and shared my observations.
-I actually arrived at the dealer WANTING to love the VCOG.

So...what would motivate me to slam it OTHER than its lack of merit?

Let's be logical...I have no dog in this fight, nor am I tied to the owner of one of those dogs.

I think that you will have better luck waiting until the holidays. I just searched and $2300 was about as good as I found too. Or you could go and get the member's discount on M4C. I've bought plenty of Trijicon optics from Grant and his discounts are very solid.

Seen them on eBay for $1500.

I have not even held the VCOG but I think there is a lot to like about it. I own a Elcan DR and have played with the 1.5-6 version. I was really hot for that VCOG and I have some zooms  so I have experience with them. Thinking about it more I realized I really like the way the Elcan works because I either use the lowest or the highest magnification and nothing in between. Anyone have an Elcan 1.5-6 for sale?

I think on a 1-6 you will use 1, 4, and 6 power though or at least I would.

 

Stickman pretty much stated what us other VCOG owners have already been saying, but coming from him, I'm guessing it will be more openly received.

Regardless, it just continues to show that the verdict is pretty much already out from those who have actually used VCOGs.

I'll be getting one soon to check out for a bit and will post my observations.  I've only played with the pre-production model that Taran Butler had and at the time, it left me feeling underwhelmed.
Maybe their production model is different so I'll give it a chance.
Interestingly, Taran chose to stick with the TR24 AccuPoint. Hmm...

Looking forward to a video.

 

Not sure I'll have time for a video but will definitely post my thoughts here.