I always wundered if they were related to CProducts? They seem to carry all the same type of magazines as CP / CPD. I read in another thread that CP lost their equipment to someone (court case or something), is that ASC?

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=536153

Hi,

This is a real can of worms as to paraphrase a good acquaintance at Shotgun News "C Products LLC was one of the epic fails in the firearms industry
...".   I should probably say right now "Thank the Lord for what I'm about to receive." and enjoy the fireworks tonight. You do have to go back about three years before Mr. Panka's announcement on the this board 5/5/11.   Most of this information is public domain, with some talks to people at NDIA shows and events like the National Machinegun Shoot at Knob Creek.

C Products LLC signed a contract with Marsam Metal Finishing Company with a exclusivity agreement that was punitive.  Apparently, it was very punitive,  typically in these types of agreements there is an escape clause that states if the company supplying the product provides a defective product its no longer valid.  There was no such clause in the agreement with Marsam, and when the Teflon coating Marsam was not up to C Products LLC‘s standards they went elsewhere and were sued per the contract they signed.   The result was not pretty. C Products LLC was slammed with a seven figure settlement 03/31/2010  and went under shortly after.

The fallout of this is interesting,  The Jonathan Scalise CEO of Marsam Metal Coating Company the winner of the suit  became the Managing Member and CEO of Ammunition Storage Components (ASC) 4/2011, registering the company with the State of Connecticut 9/2011.  ASC LLC  is making magazines off of dies and machinery gotten as part of the settlement from C Products LLC.  ASC is now making design changes now to their followers and springs (now flat on 7.62x39 magazines).   It'll be interesting to see were the changes go.   It also seems that some of C Products LLC distributors such as Cope's Distributing went to ASC.

Jonathan Scalise CEO MARSAM/ASC Llc

Barry Bergen who registered C Products LLC in 2004, was in charge of administration and engineering for C Products LLC and managing Member became head of engineering for ASC Llc March 2010 per his resume.  Ironically, Mr. Bergen now works for Jonathan Scalise at ASC who is also the CEO of Marsam.  The strange twist is that C Products LLC is still a active company with the State of Connecticut until the bankruptcy is finished, and Mr. Bergen is listed as agent and managing member.  Basically, the current agent, managing member of C Products LLC is working for ASC, talk about headaches!

C Products LLC Incorporation

Barry Bergen Managing Member C Products LLC/Head Engineer ASC LLC

Larry Panka,  now lives in Florida running LCJ Wholesale LLC.  Mr. Panka was the face of C Products LLC and did promotions and sales.  When the company went under being the face he got the majority of the blame.  I talked with vendors/ distributors and the story was the same purchase orders were place for magazines and other deals passed on.  A lot of anticipated cash flow was lost,  but none of the vendors paid in advance.    Many of those vendors went to ASC when it formed after the bankruptcy of C Products LLC.  The failure left a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths and I truly think it will take some time for these people to do any business with any company whose name starts with " C Products".  ASC avoided this by using a different name.

Summary

It could be argued that ASC LLC is basically the old C Products LLC reformed under a new name, face (Jonathan Scalise)/management, and location a few miles away.  The same C Products LLC stamping dies, tooling, and CNC programs, robotic welders, engineering staff, and coating are used by ASC to make magazines sold to the same vendors.  The flip side is that ASC is making design changes to their magazines, and bringing out new designs, hopefully with improvements.

Best Regards:

Edited for spelling

Based on your summary, it's sounds like NONE of the permeations of the companies I want to do business with

Massive clusterfuck, but if you want to shoot ARs chambered in 9mm, 7.62x39, or 6.5 Grendel, you're pretty much stuck with one of them for the time being. D&H is expanding into different calibers and making 7.62x39 mags, I guess Brownells is making 9mm mags, but they're double to triple the other companies' offerings.

The 5.45X39 magazines (blackened stainless steel) I bought from them for my S&W AR15 worked flawlessly, every one.

The 5.56X45 magazines (grey aluminum) I bought from them for my other ARs had a 30% failure rate.  The only thing I got from C Products customer service was frustration.  Promises that were never kept.

I will not buy magazines from either company.  

Since then I've bought either PMags or magazines from DSG (the GI aluminum magazines).

tried one of their 7.62 mags once

Their 6.8 mags are crap and they won't respond to emails.Shit company with shit product.

This right here. I have about six of the 6.8 mags and I wish I'd never bought them.

In 7.62X39, I am currently using 2 of the current gen ASC mags and 6 of the Gen III CPD mags and not one failure yet.
All purchased in the last 4 months.
I have 2 home built by me, 7.62X39 AR uppers, so far no mag problems with almost 1000 rounds.

Hi Mouthpiece,

You actually have two companies here Ammunition Storage Components  (ASC) LLC and CPD Inc.  These companies both have ties back to the original C-Products LLC.  ASC LLC and CPD Inc though produce magazines to very different standards.  ASC LLC doesn't claim to have a specific quality standard but their coater claims to be NADCAP certified.    CPD INC. Inc has a current ISO 9001:2008 which is a current level higher standard for industry and the Federal Government, the old C-Products LLC did not produce magazines to this standard.  The certifications indicate how consistent  production is and how errors in production are caught and addressed.  Typically over several thousand units you will starts to see differences in quality between a non certified manufacturer and  a manufacturer who is certified.  USGI magazine contract vendors such as Brownell, Center, and O-Kay are held to tight certification/production standards on DoD contracts and that's the reason these magazines are held as a standard

A look at ASC LLC's website does not indicate any specific quality procedure used in the construction of their magazines.  A look at MARSAM a company used by ASC LLC for coating is troubling, all the certificates shown on the website are expired and obsolete quality specifications such as MIL-STD-753 which was cancelled in 1998 are cited.  This doesn't mean that the product produced is bad, but it is a concern for consistent quality, I. E. one batch of magazines may be great and the next so-so.

ASC Quality Website
Expired MARSAM NADCAP certification
MARSAM Chemical Certificate

CPD Inc., states that they are ISO 9001:2008 certified and display the ISO icon on their website and their July 2015 internet magazine.  The ISO organization holds the copyright to the icons and has sued companies falsely displaying it.  I cannot verify the certificate though as there is no direct link to it.  The ISO certification if valid would be a plus for a magazine manufacturer.

CPD Inc. ISO 9001:2008 Certification

Mouthpeice,I can say that your results are consistent with what the quality that these companies can produce, but that you will eventually get burnt by rolling the dice on a company with poor quality control eventually.

Take Care:  

ISO certification is not an assurance of quality. It just means they follow a common process standard.

You can still design crap, build crap and inspect crap so long as you have standardized the process.

Hello,

Correct, generally a company who follows an ISO standard will have better quality, but GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) still applies and the manufacturer will produce consistent garbage if it's a bad design.  USGI magazines have an acceptable design specification and material and ISO companies producing them have consistent and acceptable results..  It is not a good indicator of quality though when the certs and specifications on your website are expired and obsolete.  

Regards:

I don't really care what they have or don't have as far as certifications go.
At this point I have mags that work with over 1000rounds through 2 ASC MAGS and 6 of the CPD mags, all in 7.62X39,
And in 2 different 7.62X39 AR uppers.

So what do you want me to do, throw them away because you don't like them?
Sounds like you have a problem with them, I don't and the product I have from them works for me.

I also gave 1 CPD 30 round 7.62X39 mag to a friend that has a Colt 7.62X39 AR and so far he hasn't had any problems.

I couldn't agree more. The C Products we knew from a few years ago had ISO certification.  Larry bragged about it all the time.  I guess it also says nothing about the moral character of the person running the company.............

Hi,

Do with my advice as you please, if your magazines work use them.  The phrase YMMV applies here,  my experience with the newer CPD Inc. 7.62x39 magazines is identical to yours.  My experience with ASC LLC is different, out of 7 10, 20's and 30's 2 functioned correctly out of the package, and a third functioned correctly after a 200 round break-in period, and the 10 round magazine had to be completely rebuilt to work right.  A 28 to 42% acceptance rate is not good.   I would suggest this simple test if your ASC magazines are marlubed. Rub a white cotton cleaning patch over  the finish then rub a white cotton cleaning patch with Simple Green on it and check the difference. Repeat it on a Teflon, or Melonite finish magazine and check the difference against the marlube patches.

Regards:

I'm not worried about the finish, they aren't trophies or medals.
They are functional 7.62X39 magazines and that is what matters.

I just built a 7.62x39 M4, so I bought 10 ASC 30s and 10 CPD 30s. I originally thought they may be the same mags just being sold by a shell company. As soon as I loaded the ASCs I thought I was in for trouble, by the 10th rnd only the base of the cartridges had pressure, the tips could be freely wiggled up and down loose in the mag. Amazingly it did function fine in actual use. The CPD did not have the loose fealing at the bullet end of the cartridges and also functioned fine. I plan on buying 10 more CPDs.