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Link Posted: 12/12/2014 12:31:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 1:09:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 1:13:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Comparing an AUG mag to an AR mag is not quite apples to apples. The AUG mag has significantly thicker feedlips. Part of what makes the AR mag so challenging from a durability standpoint is the fact that the feedlips need to be so thin that they become a liability.
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Quoted:
Austria has been using plastic magazines in the AUG since the 1970's - it's not a new concept.  And it works fine.

By the way, that crack'ed PMags will still feed and function, once inserted into the rifle.  


Comparing an AUG mag to an AR mag is not quite apples to apples. The AUG mag has significantly thicker feedlips. Part of what makes the AR mag so challenging from a durability standpoint is the fact that the feedlips need to be so thin that they become a liability.


True that!

Starting to really dig my AUG.  Those mags are awesome - constant curve.  Really thick walls and feed lips.  Clear  body construction from day 1.  42 round factory mags.  Speaking of which, I look forward to seeing the AUG 30 round PMAG's that are technically due for market release next week.  (is that still on?)
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 1:23:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 1:39:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 2:56:37 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Until   the Army uses  them a decade.    I will stick to the metal ones they issue.
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Is the military ever going to offer plastic mags as long as metal ones are less expensive?
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 3:26:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Mags are a disposable items never forget that! none of them last forever!
Link Posted: 12/12/2014 4:05:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 4:14:24 AM EDT
[#9]
The below is an internal document that we use to explain what we do and why we do it with magazine design, material, and testing, that has been asked for, and delivered externally to some folks that were interested in how and why the PMAG GEN M3 works as well as it does. To avoid repeated or rehashing the same information, I'll just repost in full.
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 Thanks to the Magpul guys for that great read!  A lot of info to soak up.
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 1:05:04 PM EDT
[#10]
There's a lot of folks who would pay more for straight 20's than for curved 20's.
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 5:32:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks to the Magpul guys for the informative post. It's interesting for us laymen to read the engineering "hows" and "why's".
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 5:38:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Not to stray too far off the AR mag topic, but the Russian AK-74's synthetic mags had a good reputation, at least "back in the day". They seemed to work well during their 10 year stay in Afghanistan. I did hear that the orange-brown color on the early examples wasn't helpful to concealment, though.

To anyone knowlegable, were they all they were/are cracked up to be?
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 6:27:56 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Not to stray too far off the AR mag topic, but the Russian AK-74's synthetic mags had a good reputation, at least "back in the day". They seemed to work well during their 10 year stay in Afghanistan. I did hear that the orange-brown color on the early examples wasn't helpful to concealment, though.

To anyone knowlegable, were they all they were/are cracked up to be?
View Quote



Yes, they are wire mesh re-enforced.  Very good mags.

I cancelled all of my magpul AK mag orders until the re-enforced versions come out.

Please note that I was buying Ak47  mags for 24 cents retail and Ak74 mags 99 cents retail back in the day. In the 100's of mags I own, only one ever let me down.  I burned it in a fire and the wire mesh still held  it's form.

Cheap post commie down fall mags are best mags.  

When magpul re-enforces the feed lips in the AK mags I will buy the hell out of them for no real reason.

Krylon will help with concealment cheaply and quickly.
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 8:11:10 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Thank you for updating me, i like the idea of a transparent magazine but that article scared me a little, am ex military and when it comes to feed mechanisms for a firearm i don't play and seeing how those mags cracked made me shudder, do you have any plans to make a 20 rd magazine ?
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A 5 year old article about magazines scared you? I guess you don't understand that "government issue" means the contractor that bided the job the lowest. Government issue should be considered the minimum of quality control. Whenever you come back to this thread you'll see the test posted on page 3 showing the frost test on Polymer MAGazines.  If you're concerned with heat then spend $12m buy a PMAG, put it in the oven to whatever temperature you feel your AR15 gets to and how long a magazine is in that amount of heat. Pull it out and shoot with it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 9:53:00 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

A 5 year old article about magazines scared you? I guess you don't understand that "government issue" means the contractor that bided the job the lowest. Government issue should be considered the minimum of quality control. Whenever you come back to this thread you'll see the test posted on page 3 showing the frost test on Polymer MAGazines.  If you're concerned with heat then spend $12m buy a PMAG, put it in the oven to whatever temperature you feel your AR15 gets to and how long a magazine is in that amount of heat. Pull it out and shoot with it.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thank you for updating me, i like the idea of a transparent magazine but that article scared me a little, am ex military and when it comes to feed mechanisms for a firearm i don't play and seeing how those mags cracked made me shudder, do you have any plans to make a 20 rd magazine ?

A 5 year old article about magazines scared you? I guess you don't understand that "government issue" means the contractor that bided the job the lowest. Government issue should be considered the minimum of quality control. Whenever you come back to this thread you'll see the test posted on page 3 showing the frost test on Polymer MAGazines.  If you're concerned with heat then spend $12m buy a PMAG, put it in the oven to whatever temperature you feel your AR15 gets to and how long a magazine is in that amount of heat. Pull it out and shoot with it.


Clear Polymer still bothers me but I bought one to test.  We used Pmags and USGI. Only 1 PMag failed when a guy dropped it 300M down a rock face and it hit the top of a gun shield on a Gwag.  Gunner opened up thinking he was under fire while we called it in 300m above him.

Laughs- 1 pissed of gunner- got it back at a high rate of speed tossed it in the pile when EOD was out a few days later.

I trust black Pmags with my life. They are great mags.  Magpul can't be the ONLY company to get it right this many years out.   I have never had a problem with a Tapco or new US made Thermelt mag either.  They are tacticool as a brick but they work flawlessly.
Link Posted: 12/13/2014 10:22:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 12/20/2014 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
let's see here, if i read all the stupid fucking threads about AR durability on ARF.com, i need my AR to be made out of an abrams tank with titanium mags.  i just have to hope i dont get hit by a hell fire missile, otherwise it might jam on me.  and 556 is a pussy round with no stopping power, it needs to be 155mm minimum.
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Shit, coffee on the keyboard via my nose!
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 5:18:47 AM EDT
[#18]

So you think a USGI aluminum mag will be likely to feed properly after an 8.5 foot drop like that? Maybe in this one test...

I will say, I did test some H&K clear mags. I froze them into the teens, and then dropped them repeatedly fully loaded from about 5.5 feet. Narry an issue. I did split a Gen 3 PMAG in the 2nd such drop in the same conditions, as a comparison. The H&K mag impressed me...The Magpul mag? It did not perform as well as their YouTube video had me think it would, however, I am not in the habit of abusing my mags that way, but it was still an eye opener.
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 5:20:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


We actually had an OEM contact us about something that falls along those lines. Went something like this, paraphrased...

"Hey, we wanted to talk to you about mags wearing out."

"OK, tell us what's going on."

"We're seeing the .308 mags start to show wear and sometimes not lock back at around 8,000 to 10,000 rounds of .308, which we don't see with the 5.56."

"OK. So, after the equivalent of burning out a $400 barrel and shooting up $15,000 worth of .308 match ammo, the single $20 magazine is nearing the end of its life cycle?"

"Yeah. Good point."
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Quoted:
Mags are a disposable items never forget that! none of them last forever!


We actually had an OEM contact us about something that falls along those lines. Went something like this, paraphrased...

"Hey, we wanted to talk to you about mags wearing out."

"OK, tell us what's going on."

"We're seeing the .308 mags start to show wear and sometimes not lock back at around 8,000 to 10,000 rounds of .308, which we don't see with the 5.56."

"OK. So, after the equivalent of burning out a $400 barrel and shooting up $15,000 worth of .308 match ammo, the single $20 magazine is nearing the end of its life cycle?"

"Yeah. Good point."

I can't keep up with crap that long. I need whoever your customer is to tag along at work and help me keep up with my pens!
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 4:37:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Simple answer........

GROUP BUY, from ETS
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 10:45:28 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Simple answer........

GROUP BUY, from ETS
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I would wait until after Christmas.  My order from a week ago keeps bouncing between Louisville and Lexington KY.  Thanks Mr post office man.
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:11:27 PM EDT
[#22]
So far I've seen only 1 person post personal experience of a magazine failure under "regular" use.  I've also read one post by a manufacturer mention wear out at very high round counts.


So...my question to everyone is who has actually had a polymer mag fail them under normal use and abuse?
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:36:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm not 8ft tall so I shouldn't have to worry about it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:41:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:42:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:47:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 11:48:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 12/22/2014 5:58:46 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


You still haven't gotten your mag yet?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Simple answer........

GROUP BUY, from ETS


I would wait until after Christmas.  My order from a week ago keeps bouncing between Louisville and Lexington KY.  Thanks Mr post office man.


You still haven't gotten your mag yet?


Just showed up today.  I guess 2 day shipping don't mean the same to the post office as the rest of us.
I got it in one piece, that's all I really care about.
Link Posted: 12/22/2014 6:21:02 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

So you think a USGI aluminum mag will be likely to feed properly after an 8.5 foot drop like that? Maybe in this one test...

I will say, I did test some H&K clear mags. I froze them into the teens, and then dropped them repeatedly fully loaded from about 5.5 feet. Narry an issue. I did split a Gen 3 PMAG in the 2nd such drop in the same conditions, as a comparison. The H&K mag impressed me...The Magpul mag? It did not perform as well as their YouTube video had me think it would, however, I am not in the habit of abusing my mags that way, but it was still an eye opener.
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Quoted:

So you think a USGI aluminum mag will be likely to feed properly after an 8.5 foot drop like that? Maybe in this one test...

I will say, I did test some H&K clear mags. I froze them into the teens, and then dropped them repeatedly fully loaded from about 5.5 feet. Narry an issue. I did split a Gen 3 PMAG in the 2nd such drop in the same conditions, as a comparison. The H&K mag impressed me...The Magpul mag? It did not perform as well as their YouTube video had me think it would, however, I am not in the habit of abusing my mags that way, but it was still an eye opener.


That's just it.  Unlike most of the members here, who just go off of hearsay, or a manufacturer's test, I actually conducted my own tests when deciding what brand / type of magazine to standardize for my own uses.  I trust my own personal first hand experiences vs. controlled manufacturer video releases and online postings.  

I found that not all GI style mags are created equal and some are a lot more durable than people realize, even the most esteemed polymer mags are not everything they're cracked up to be to be.

I encourage everyone to conduct their own tests and then evaluate based on performance, price, availability, etc which mag makes the most sense for them.

Which magazine did I find performed the best and were the most durable under normal rough handling and adverse use?  Brownells' tan follower USGI magazines.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:27:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:29:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Lancer is the best mag out there, end of story.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:39:52 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Lancer is the best mag out there, end of story.
View Quote


This isn't GD.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:41:41 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:


This isn't GD.
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Quoted:
Lancer is the best mag out there, end of story.


This isn't GD.



So I should sit here and post a bunch of hersay and pretend to be smart? Because thats all these threads ever are. Fanboys and people pretending to be smart justifying their favorite mag, even when there are hundreds of documented cases proving otherwise....


Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:44:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So far I've seen only 1 person post personal experience of a magazine failure under "regular" use.  I've also read one post by a manufacturer mention wear out at very high round counts.


So...my question to everyone is who has actually had a polymer mag fail them under normal use and abuse?
View Quote


I have cracked a couple Gen II Pmags although they still functioned afterwards. Also had the follower get stuck on a Gen II Pmag and stop feeding. The mag had gotten dirty from running ranges in a dusty environment.

I've also had a GI mag fail due to bent feedlips.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 3:12:40 AM EDT
[#35]
Plus, why would anyone want a mag.... which requires a dust cover to stop the feedlips from spreading.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 11:52:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lancer is the best mag out there, end of story.
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I love lancer L5AWM's; they're one of my three favorite magazines. But they're not perfect. I can't run factory PRVI 75 HPBT Match ammo in them - factory loads. They'll fit in the mags, but just barely, and tight enough to cause them to bind up. I'd never used this particular PRVI load before 10-12 months ago, and that's when I discovered that  - for whatever reason - the combination of that load and that model of magazine is a bad thing.

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=640736

Still have, use, and will continue to use Lancers; I think they're great. But I've accepted that I simply don't use them for that one particular load. Every other load I've tried in them work 100%; I can't think of a single failure I've had with an L5AWM other than that one load. But that one little issue has made it necessary for me to remove the adjective "perfect" from their description. Still love 'em and they're frankly still my go-to mags. But that's because that PRVI 75 isn't my go-to ammo.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:00:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Plus, why would anyone want a mag.... which requires a dust cover to stop the feedlips from spreading.
View Quote
You Lancer fanboys are funny.

I have and run both. Neither are perfect but I've never had an issue with any PMAG including the mythical feed lip speading issue. I've cracked a couple feed lips on some abused PMAGs but they still functioned until they were replaced. Bent the "indestructable" steel feed lips on a Lancer mag and it was rendered useless.

But you are correct in that these threads are useless.....but so are most threads anymore.
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 2:45:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You Lancer fanboys are funny.

I have and run both. Neither are perfect but I've never had an issue with any PMAG including the mythical feed lip speading issue. I've cracked a couple feed lips on some abused PMAGs but they still functioned until they were replaced. Bent the "indestructable" steel feed lips on a Lancer mag and it was rendered useless.

But you are correct in that these threads are useless.....but so are most threads anymore.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Plus, why would anyone want a mag.... which requires a dust cover to stop the feedlips from spreading.
You Lancer fanboys are funny.

I have and run both. Neither are perfect but I've never had an issue with any PMAG including the mythical feed lip speading issue. I've cracked a couple feed lips on some abused PMAGs but they still functioned until they were replaced. Bent the "indestructable" steel feed lips on a Lancer mag and it was rendered useless.

But you are correct in that these threads are useless.....but so are most threads anymore.



Magpul themselves say the dust covers are to reduce the feedlips spreading
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 3:31:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 3:36:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


While Brownells USGI contract magazines are better in overall tolerance compared to other USGI contract magazines the specific material, heat treating and coating are all specified by the US government TDP (technical data package). As such no USGI contract magazine is stronger than the next in terms of impact.

All the video tests we have posted regarding impact are specific in terms of details enough that they are easy enough to reproduce to confirm the damage for both the PMag and USGI controls.

Even when damaged PMags will still run reliability for thousands of rounds and function normally. Again read through the magazine post on the previous page regarding the priority of a magazine, not to be an indestructible brick but to feed rounds reliability after being exposed to a wide range of environmental and impact conditions.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

So you think a USGI aluminum mag will be likely to feed properly after an 8.5 foot drop like that? Maybe in this one test...

I will say, I did test some H&K clear mags. I froze them into the teens, and then dropped them repeatedly fully loaded from about 5.5 feet. Narry an issue. I did split a Gen 3 PMAG in the 2nd such drop in the same conditions, as a comparison. The H&K mag impressed me...The Magpul mag? It did not perform as well as their YouTube video had me think it would, however, I am not in the habit of abusing my mags that way, but it was still an eye opener.


That's just it.  Unlike most of the members here, who just go off of hearsay, or a manufacturer's test, I actually conducted my own tests when deciding what brand / type of magazine to standardize for my own uses.  I trust my own personal first hand experiences vs. controlled manufacturer video releases and online postings.  

I found that not all GI style mags are created equal and some are a lot more durable than people realize, even the most esteemed polymer mags are not everything they're cracked up to be to be.

I encourage everyone to conduct their own tests and then evaluate based on performance, price, availability, etc which mag makes the most sense for them.

Which magazine did I find performed the best and were the most durable under normal rough handling and adverse use?  Brownells' tan follower USGI magazines.


While Brownells USGI contract magazines are better in overall tolerance compared to other USGI contract magazines the specific material, heat treating and coating are all specified by the US government TDP (technical data package). As such no USGI contract magazine is stronger than the next in terms of impact.

All the video tests we have posted regarding impact are specific in terms of details enough that they are easy enough to reproduce to confirm the damage for both the PMag and USGI controls.

Even when damaged PMags will still run reliability for thousands of rounds and function normally. Again read through the magazine post on the previous page regarding the priority of a magazine, not to be an indestructible brick but to feed rounds reliability after being exposed to a wide range of environmental and impact conditions.


That's not exactly true.  Just because things are specified to be made to a certain spec, doesn't mean that every contractor manufactures the items to the exact same quality.

For instance, during the production of the M14 you have four main contractors building rifles.  Springfield Armory, H&R, Winchester, and TRW.

They were all to build the same rifle to the same specs.  However, some contractors were known for building rifles with better quality than others.  H&R was known for producing rifles with the lower quality that had the most issues.  TRW, on the other hand, overbuilt their parts / rifles.  They were known for producing the highest quality components with very low quality issues or failure rates on their rifles.  The even produced their op rods using an entirely different manufacturing method than the other contractors.  The rifles, and parts kits now, from TRW are the most highly coveted.  

They all built the same rifle to the same spec, but they were hardly equal.    
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 12/23/2014 4:17:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


For the last SEVEN years or so we have publicly stated that the PMag does NOT require the cover to be used for the magazine to be kept loaded even through heat cycles and long term storage.

We have documented accounts of PMags being loaded for a year through hundreds of large heat cycles with no effect on feed lip retention or functionality.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Plus, why would anyone want a mag.... which requires a dust cover to stop the feedlips from spreading.
You Lancer fanboys are funny.

I have and run both. Neither are perfect but I've never had an issue with any PMAG including the mythical feed lip speading issue. I've cracked a couple feed lips on some abused PMAGs but they still functioned until they were replaced. Bent the "indestructable" steel feed lips on a Lancer mag and it was rendered useless.

But you are correct in that these threads are useless.....but so are most threads anymore.



Magpul themselves say the dust covers are to reduce the feedlips spreading


For the last SEVEN years or so we have publicly stated that the PMag does NOT require the cover to be used for the magazine to be kept loaded even through heat cycles and long term storage.

We have documented accounts of PMags being loaded for a year through hundreds of large heat cycles with no effect on feed lip retention or functionality.


Im just quoting your own engineers, design specs, and patent...

      The preferred embodiment also features a protective cover that distributes forces from the spring to more structurally sound areas of the magazine, thus reducing feed end splay,

Link Posted: 12/23/2014 4:44:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 2:44:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Im just quoting your own engineers, design specs, and patent...
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You stressed out or something man?  I kind of expected more.  It's cool and all, but geez man, it seems you're just out to display your hate against them.
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 5:06:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 5:29:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The patent was written before the first Magazine was manufactured and tested (my name is one of those on the Patent).

Even then we waited for a full year of field testing with the original PMags in 2007 before we endorsed the PMag for 'live" operations. One of the long term tests was feed-lip spread testing.

We have posted the dust covers are optional for over 6 years now in many threads you have been involved with. You have just chosen to ignore them.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Magpul themselves say the dust covers are to reduce the feedlips spreading


For the last SEVEN years or so we have publicly stated that the PMag does NOT require the cover to be used for the magazine to be kept loaded even through heat cycles and long term storage.

We have documented accounts of PMags being loaded for a year through hundreds of large heat cycles with no effect on feed lip retention or functionality.


Im just quoting your own engineers, design specs, and patent...

      The preferred embodiment also features a protective cover that distributes forces from the spring to more structurally sound areas of the magazine, thus reducing feed end splay,



The patent was written before the first Magazine was manufactured and tested (my name is one of those on the Patent).

Even then we waited for a full year of field testing with the original PMags in 2007 before we endorsed the PMag for 'live" operations. One of the long term tests was feed-lip spread testing.

We have posted the dust covers are optional for over 6 years now in many threads you have been involved with. You have just chosen to ignore them.


I feel its a bit underhanded to advertise your mags as one thing, when the engineers who designed it say another.  I didn't see the patent until just recently, when the whole ETS lawsuit came up, and I found it a bit interesting that they were designed to actually stop feedlip splay, yet all I ever read on the forum is the opposite.
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 5:31:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

Trolling Industry Partners is not a good idea

I would suggest that if you have a problem with Magpul, you take it up with them and leave it out of the Tech Forums
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Im just quoting your own engineers, design specs, and patent...

      The preferred embodiment also features a protective cover that distributes forces from the spring to more structurally sound areas of the magazine, thus reducing feed end splay,



The patent was written before the first Magazine was manufactured and tested (my name is one of those on the Patent).

Even then we waited for a full year of field testing with the original PMags in 2007 before we endorsed the PMag for 'live" operations. One of the long term tests was feed-lip spread testing.

We have posted the dust covers are optional for over 6 years now in many threads you have been involved with. You have just chosen to ignore them.

 

Trolling Industry Partners is not a good idea

I would suggest that if you have a problem with Magpul, you take it up with them and leave it out of the Tech Forums
 



If anyone is a troll in this forum, its Magpul. Shitting in every mag thread, whether its talking about Pmags or not, and also getting competitor's threads locked
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 5:32:08 PM EDT
[#48]
And if you are mad about me "derailing this thread".... I read the first  page of this thread before commenting, and it was nothing but GD material.
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 6:03:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 12/24/2014 6:04:58 PM EDT
[#50]
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