User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/2/2017 11:08:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Eeehh, they're not really made for hunting, but I'm sure it would work under the right circumstances. I would personally use the 77 grain for an extra bit of penetration.
I'm sure others here have first hand experience with this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2017 11:13:24 PM EDT
[#2]
SMKs will fragment. Not what you want for salvaging meat. Good for head shots though. Or they will explode armadillos very nicely.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 12:38:02 AM EDT
[#3]
The SMKs aren't really what you want for hunting, they may work, they may not. They're erratic at best, and suboptimal.
I used the 77 TMK this Nov on two. One neck shot that left an exit hole about 2-3 fingers thick, dropped on impact. The other was a chest shot that hit a rib, shredded both lungs and severed main aorta, and exited. Deer ran maybe 50m and piled up, was dead before I got there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 12:48:21 AM EDT
[#4]
The 77 and 75 gr bullets have a lot more energy at distance. The Barnes now comes in a 70 gr HPT copper bullet that should be ideal.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/666808/barnes-vor-tx-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-70-grain-triple-shock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20 |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 12:52:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SMKs will fragment. Not what you want for salvaging meat. Good for head shots though. Or they will explode armadillos very nicely. I've had several 123 6.5mm SMKs icepick right through animals. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 1:47:05 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I normally just shoot crappy ammo, but I recently got a couple nice rifles with scopes and bought some 69 grain ammo with match king bullets. How will it perform on deer sized game? Reliable dramatic yaw based fragmentation, but with late onset yaw, at closer ranges or higher velocities. Late yaw only at longer ranges or lower velocities. That is specific to that bullet, in that caliber, in that weight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 11:23:29 AM EDT
[#7]
With good shot placement they do well. For me I have strayed away from the OTM loads for my uses where I hunt and now use Fusions, TSX and MK318.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/3/2017 2:35:12 PM EDT
[#8]
The 69 SMK has long been on the approved self defense list.
Men are the same size as deer generally. Wouldn't be my first choice (I like soft points) but I'm sure it will do its part. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2017 10:29:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Shot a couple deer and foxes with the 77gr SMK.
What I saw with deer was straight line penetration all the way into the first lung, fragmentation between the first and second lung, with it blowing a 2-3in diameter hole through the 2nd lung and out. Deer made it maybe 50-75 yards then dropped. Fox was more inconsistent, I've had some SMKs fragment in the fox and drop them, while some seem to have ice picked straight through them. My working theory is that they're fragmenting if they hit ribs or bones, but if they don't hit anything hard there's not enough room fragment. I'll be trying out the TMKs soon to see how they do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2017 11:34:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 77 and 75 gr bullets have a lot more energy at distance. The Barnes now comes in a 70 gr HPT copper bullet that should be ideal. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/666808/barnes-vor-tx-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-70-grain-triple-shock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20 I really doubt that his 1/9 twist is going to work well with a 70gr all-copper bullet. 69gr SMK's aren't bad, they perform like most of the thin-jacketed HPBT bullets. You're a bit limited weight wise by your barrel twist, so they're not a bad choice. If you want expansion over fragmentation, there are plenty of Gold Dot or Fusion-type soft points available in weights that will work with your barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2017 1:22:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Ask these guys...
One boar was taken with a 69gr the other with a 77gr, the pair was taken with the 69gr IIRC.  " />
 " />
 " />
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2017 2:50:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With good shot placement they do well. For me I have strayed away from the OTM loads for my uses where I hunt and now use Fusions, TSX and MK318. you hunt with 318? doesnt that fragmentation taint alot of the meat? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/4/2017 6:02:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 69 SMK has long been on the approved self defense list. Wouldn't be my first choice (I like soft points) but I'm sure it will do its part. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 12:08:39 AM EDT
[#14]
wasnt the 77gr version better than the 69 because of a shorter neck in gel tests?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 1:55:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wasnt the 77gr version better than the 69 because of a shorter neck in gel tests? Black Hills testing shows a shorter neck on 69. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 4:13:15 AM EDT
[#16]
I shot a coyote once with a hand-loaded 77gr SMK. Left a small little ice-pick hole through and through. But dropped the animal like a sack of potatoes. Lights out. DRT.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 4:18:46 AM EDT
[#17]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 10:09:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you hunt with 318? doesnt that fragmentation taint alot of the meat? I have this year, have popped two Coyotes with MK318. First one (50 yards) it was facing away from me, shot it in the ass and I'm certain the slug passed through eye socket. And the second was just this weekend (300ish yards) it was hit in the neck, small entrance and a exit the size of a small orange. These are handloaded pulls that are loaded a little lighter than the actual mil load out of a 20" barrel. Will be going back to do more hog hunting in the coming weeks and I plan on trying them on those hunts. So far it performs similar to OTM loads as far as fragmentation but that slug ensures deep penetration. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 11:45:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have this year, have popped two Coyotes with MK318. First one (50 yards) it was facing away from me, shot it in the ass and I'm certain the slug passed through eye socket. And the second was just this weekend (300ish yards) it was hit in the neck, small entrance and a exit the size of a small orange. These are handloaded pulls that are loaded a little lighter than the actual mil load out of a 20" barrel. Will be going back to do more hog hunting in the coming weeks and I plan on trying them on those hunts. So far it performs similar to OTM loads as far as fragmentation but that slug ensures deep penetration. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
you hunt with 318? doesnt that fragmentation taint alot of the meat? I have this year, have popped two Coyotes with MK318. First one (50 yards) it was facing away from me, shot it in the ass and I'm certain the slug passed through eye socket. And the second was just this weekend (300ish yards) it was hit in the neck, small entrance and a exit the size of a small orange. These are handloaded pulls that are loaded a little lighter than the actual mil load out of a 20" barrel. Will be going back to do more hog hunting in the coming weeks and I plan on trying them on those hunts. So far it performs similar to OTM loads as far as fragmentation but that slug ensures deep penetration. oh, sport hunting. good for testing out bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2017 11:58:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh, sport hunting. good for testing out bullets. Yes sir! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2017 3:15:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Sierra also makes a very good 65 gr bullet designed for use on medium game, the #1395 65 gr Game King.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/19/2017 3:37:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sierra also makes a very good 65 gr bullet designed for use on medium game, the #1395 65 gr Game King. I have used that bullet on deer here in Missouri. 2 broadside shots both complete penetration with Quarter sized exit holes. Both ran 25 yards or so before collapsing. Huge blood trail, but did not exhibit enough "Shock" for me. Switched to the 55 grain BTSP Sierra #1350 and at the pop of the gun they are DRT! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2017 11:18:39 AM EDT
[#23]
For the OP's original question... the SMK performs inconsistently... and is a Yaw dependent bullet.
So it will work sometimes just like you want and sometimes it will "icepick" through.... depending on the very slight differences in the angle of impact.... the fragmentation will be 4"+ inside the critter and sometimes it will be fragging with a short neck.... Part of the reason for the Sierra TMK ( Tipped Match King ) was to make a bullet that wasn't as yaw dependent. And would perform more consistently..... meaning it will frag consistently ( in ballistic gel ) in the same penetration depth. IMHO, I would use a better designed bullet then the SMK, there are plenty of alternative accurate designed bullets that will perform more consistently ( read expand at the same depth ). Obviously, The SMK will work... but ultimately a more consistent performer is wanted.... and, frankly, designing better bullets means performance improvements including accuracy, and reliable expansion. Hence the TMK. ( As well as other manufacturers similar products ) Numerous response's in this thread kind of describe what I am talking about.... even the previous response shows the effect of expansion at the right depth. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 3:24:23 PM EDT
[#24]
What we have seen from many samples of ballistics testing, compared with some of the major ammunition companies in the industry, is that you often see the nose bend over, while the jacket stays relatively intact below certain impact speeds.
If the impact speed is high enough, the jacket will shear under heavy load as the bullet yaws, and tear a relatively linear failure line on the shank. If the speed is fast enough, the jacket will peel dramatically and allow the lead core to separate or mushroom. At high speeds at close range, it might produce the wound effects you're looking for. As the distance increases, your wound channel can be smaller and smaller. I personally would not place it anywhere near the top of my list for taking game with all the projectiles we have available for that. They are great target bullets though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 10:07:45 PM EDT
[#25]
For anyone interested, here is a video showing Mk262 w/ 77gr SMK OTM at low velocity using a 7.5" barrel, which is about the same velocity at 300yards with a 16" barrel.
The bullet performed decently enough as it tumbled through the gel with a 3.5" neck, similar to a 5.45x39 Gold Dot 64gr has a neck of 8" when at distance, ~300yards. TSX 70gr didn't expand when it is at low velocity either. MK262 w/ 7.5" barrel Gold Dot 64gr w/ 7.5" barrel Barnes TSX 70gr w/ 7.5" barrel |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/1/2017 10:25:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had several 123 6.5mm SMKs icepick right through animals. The most common theme in reports about the SMK on game is "inconsistent." |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/2/2017 8:57:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The most common theme in reports about the SMK on game is "inconsistent." This. My only unrecovered deer was with a 77 SMK from my Mk. 12. Maybe 80m away, solid hit in chest area, behind shoulder. She dropped on impact, flailed around and I thought she was down for the count, but then she jumped up and took off completely unhindered without even a hitch in her step. I spent a good couple hours looking for that doe, couldn't find even a hint that she was ever there. Still feel bad about that one, I should have used a better bullet. It made me very hesitant to use .223 for awhile, but I used the TMK on two this year. Both performed great. I did the same shot on a doe this year, which left a decent blood trail and crashed down dead not 50m from the shot. Sometimes the SMK works great, sometimes it icepicks, it's why it can work but is definitely not recommended. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/4/2017 6:42:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Got a couple more this last week...
I agree though... better bullets are out there, I just have a bunch of these. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/5/2017 10:11:20 PM EDT
[#29]
So if the 77 SMK bullets are proven to not be optimal hunting projectiles, how are they doing on human targets? It's a fairly common round for our mil.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/5/2017 10:30:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the 77 SMK bullets are proven to not be optimal hunting projectiles, how are they doing on human targets? It's a fairly common round for our mil. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2017 6:15:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the 77 SMK bullets are proven to not be optimal hunting projectiles, how are they doing on human targets? It's a fairly common round for our mil. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/9/2017 6:24:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the 77 SMK bullets are proven to not be optimal hunting projectiles, how are they doing on human targets? It's a fairly common round for our mil. Ask yourself, do you really care about being humane to terrorists? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2017 3:16:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Generally not a good as the similar Nosler offering.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 3:02:46 PM EDT
[#34]
The 77gr TMK is the new hotness in that it fragments consistently and quickly to crazy low velocities and penetrates past 12" while having a much higher BC and with excellent accuracy from chambers it likes. It is known to be pickier due to the ogive. It seems to like Wylde chambers a lot from the reports I've seen.
There was an impressive pictorial here a while back of an antelope dropped DRT at 550yds or so with BH 77gr TMK from an 18" MK12 SPR with a Wylde chamber. The POI couldn't have been drawn on better, and the damage was very impressive, let alone from a .223 at that range. IMO it makes the SMK obsolete on game. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 6:23:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 77gr TMK is the new hotness in that it fragments consistently and quickly to crazy low velocities and penetrates past 12" while having a much higher BC and with excellent accuracy from chambers it likes. It is known to be pickier due to the ogive. It seems to like Wylde chambers a lot from the reports I've seen. There was an impressive pictorial here a while back of an antelope dropped DRT at 550yds or so with BH 77gr TMK from an 18" MK12 SPR with a Wylde chamber. The POI couldn't have been drawn on better, and the damage was very impressive, let alone from a .223 at that range. IMO it makes the SMK obsolete on game. Can confirm. Those TMK's don't fuck around, the deer I chest shot looked just as shredded and messed up as when I've used premium .308 hunting rounds in the past. My 2 SPRs usually shoot the Black Hills loaded TMK 77's about .1-.2MOA wider than Black Hills 77gr blue box, but it still hangs at or less than MOA. Also given that it works down to 1900fps and has a higher BC it works to a very long effective range. Not that that matters for me, my shots are <100m, but it's still worth noting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 7:04:25 PM EDT
[#36]
I have been shooting the Creedmoor TMK at 2750 fps from 20 inch Lothar Walther barrel with Wylde chamber at 900 and 1000 yards.
Its real world G7 BC appears to be about .192, so BC is not nearly as high as claimed G1. But its a dandy round. Really accurate at 900. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 7:07:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been shooting the Creedmoor TMK at 2750 fps from 20 inch Lothar Walther barrel with Wylde chamber at 900 and 1000 yards. Its real world G7 BC appears to be about .192, so BC is not nearly as high as claimed G1. But its a dandy round. Really accurate at 900. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/13/2017 7:35:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 77gr TMK is the new hotness in that it fragments consistently and quickly to crazy low velocities and penetrates past 12" while having a much higher BC and with excellent accuracy from chambers it likes. It is known to be pickier due to the ogive. It seems to like Wylde chambers a lot from the reports I've seen. There was an impressive pictorial here a while back of an antelope dropped DRT at 550yds or so with BH 77gr TMK from an 18" MK12 SPR with a Wylde chamber. The POI couldn't have been drawn on better, and the damage was very impressive, let alone from a .223 at that range. IMO it makes the SMK obsolete on game. The antelope shot was 500yds, and/but it was a handload at 2600fps, so nearly same. Impact velocity was calculated at 1780 and the bullet expanded but didn't drastically fragment. Definitely wrecked some shit nonetheless. Barrel was an 18" Douglas, chamber wasn't actually mentioned in that thread, but I know I've seen multiple posts of great accuracy with 77 TMKs from Wylde chambers. Here's the thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 12:39:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Results with Sierra matching bullets are typically inconsistent. bullets will explode, tumble on impact of perform like a fmj shooting straight through. They are not recommended for hunting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2017 5:22:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Zairrifleman,
I have only punched paper and steel target with it. Never used it on game. But likely to get a few coyotes yet this breeding season. Likely to be under 200 yards however. (I hunt at night). |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/1/2017 2:38:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had several 123 6.5mm SMKs icepick right through animals. In a grendel or creedmoor, and at what range? I killed quite a few nuisance deer with 142 smk in a creed and 107smk in a 243 or 243ai. Both at distances between 400-750. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/1/2017 2:49:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a grendel or creedmoor, and at what range? I killed quite a few nuisance deer with 142 smk in a creed and 107smk in a 243 or 243ai. Both at distances between 400-750. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've had several 123 6.5mm SMKs icepick right through animals. In a grendel or creedmoor, and at what range? I killed quite a few nuisance deer with 142 smk in a creed and 107smk in a 243 or 243ai. Both at distances between 400-750. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 11:25:35 PM EDT
[#43]
It will work. Just a note that SMK were never meant to be a hunting round. I think any company is very hesitant in marketing as a game round because it was never meant to be used in such a case. It was only after the military got a hold of it that suddenly people realized, yes you can use it for game as well as self defense.
Yes it will work on mid sized games. Just make sure you buy quality stuff.The question is will it go down humanly? Now that's a question left to whoever views it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/3/2017 12:41:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will work. Just a note that SMK were never meant to be a hunting round. I think any company is very hesitant in marketing as a game round because it was never meant to be used in such a case. It was only after the military got a hold of it that suddenly people realized, yes you can use it for game as well as self defense. Yes it will work on mid sized games. Just make sure you buy quality stuff.The question is will it go down humanly? Now that's a question left to whoever views it. You have it backwards. Only after us civilian shooters proved that SMKs worked well in our M14 NM/M1A NM rifles in the '70s did DOD start producing SMK based 7.62MM M852 ammunition in the '80s. I am one of the old farts that made 168GR. SMK "Mexican Match" M118 ammo in the '70s. Same with the 0.224" SMK bullets/loads which I/we used in our AR15/M16 rifles long before DOD did. But bullets/ammunition are continuously and quickly evolving to yield better terminal performance, especially in .223/5.56MM. Bottom line today: Anything a 0.224" SMK will do on a flesh & bone target, a 0.224" TMK of the same weight/caliber/velocity will do better IMO. .02 |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/3/2017 1:05:15 PM EDT
[#45]
I think you're talking across each other.
DoD was beat to the SMK by civilian match shooters but until the reports of Mk262 having excellent terminal effect came back from overseas not a lot of people advocated using .224" OTMs on game. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/3/2017 1:48:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you're talking across each other. DoD was beat to the SMK by civilian match shooters but until the reports of Mk262 having excellent terminal effect came back from overseas not a lot of people advocated using .224" OTMs on game. Hunters were using the 69GR. SMK loads on game animals decades before DOD started using 77GR. SMK OTM based BHA MK 262 MOD 0 then MOD 1. Again, I was one of them. Many of us also used the 70GR. SPEER semi-spritzer bullet on whitetail. Both killed well but penetration was lacking on both bullets because neither was bonded. We kept asking Nosler for a 0.224" Partition bullet but it took them a long time to realize the .223 could be used on medium sized game animals successfully. Below is a scan of a 1990s photo showing terminal performance of a 69GR. SMK over .223 pressure H335 fired from a 24" barreled AR15. The 18" Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR) and the MK 262 MOD 0/1 AA53 ammunition developed specifically for it were first fielded in approx. 2002. Exit wound: 
When 5.56MM pressure 77GR. SMK OTM based BHA MK 262 MOD 1 SECONDS came available to us civis in 2005, I started using it: Entrance wound: 
Exit wound without bone contact: 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/3/2017 2:47:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Again, while some people may have used it, it wasn't a trend until after OEF brought home the news.
In those days if you'd written in to G&A and told them what you were doing a fraction of readers would think you were sane. |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
